British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[yellowdog]

Conclusions??

Am I the only one that's laughing myself silly at seeing one of the reasons to stay with BASSA as their legaleagleness?!?!!

Oh, I think a bit of wee came out!!!

Flybymerchant,

Me thinks you jump to too many conclusions;

1. I am not and never have been a member of BASSA
2. I have not and never have preached to anyone that they should be in a union.
3. I have first hand experience of the fabulous back up that my union provided me when something went wrong, personally, at work.
4. The legal expertise is not provided by BASSA, and I hope never will be because they are not legal people. The expertise is provided by Unite
5. I would never want to go back to the days of hardcore 70's "militantism"; just a healthy industrial relation between the employer and their employees.

All I'm saying is be practical when deciding whether to leave the umbrella of a union, for a consultative committee, which as far as I can see has no legal standing at British Airways. I know I will still be paying my subs to Unite long after all this has been forgotten, and yes my legal bills came to a lot more than I can ever pay Unite in subs.

Don't forget nearly every big work force is unionised; all the teachers, all the nurses, all the policemen can they all be wrong?

[Juan Odeboyse]

My major gripe about the strike is the actual dates...if it had been put back a few more weeks I could have watched the whole World Cup without the fear of flying away....and of course with good cheap beer and burgers at BFC!

[TightSlot]

You're all getting a little over excited and the toys are slowly being thrown out of the playpen.

Post facts, or arguments or indeed anything that is just a bit more grown-up than throwing rocks at each other. BASSA are bad, Willie is Naughty - If these are the sum expression of your post, then save your bandwidth and our time.

Cool down, step back and think before posting. If you have nothing useful to say, don't say anything

[StoneyBridge Radar]

A Pyrrhic victory for BASSA

I find it remarkable that BASSA-ites regard today's events as a massive victory which is going to force leverage on WW.

WW and the board have a corporate responsibility to protect the company by all means at their disposal; hence the move for an injunction to prevent industrial action.

What have UNITE achieved today? They have won the right to appeal and won the appeal to have that injunction overturned. What else? Nothing, nada, diddly squat, bugger all.

What have BA and WW achieved over the past few days? A postponement of industrial action; meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking away, tick tock tick tock to the day when he has carte blanche power and legal right to fundamentally change the face of BA CC and kick out the militant deadwood that is the BASSA stalwarts.

BA is no weaker from today's events. BASSA should be very, very worried.

[License to Fly]

in the BA boardroom today...

I wonder what the agenda will be to end this strike....

I think in June it will (quite rightly) get very nasty for anyone who strikes and they will write themselves out of the business. Remember BASSA does not pay the wage, BA does.

I have just lost over £350 of flying pay for next week, thanks BASSA. I might even file a small claims court case for this money, i am that angry!

I am backing BA in anyway I can & if you are a striker I hope you understand what financial damage/disruption you are bringing to :-

-our customers
-other BA employees
-our caterers
-BAA
-taxi people driving customers to the airport
-and numerous other people you would not even care to think about that are connected to our business

All for what ?????????????????????????????? The CC job is not rocket science and most of the positions (apart from being a Pursar equivalent) are for people in the early mid 20's, a job for c.3 years before moving on. This is where BA needs to move to IMHO

It may be a game for some of you, its not for many others. CC claim to be careing people, at the moment i do not agree in the slightest.

LTF

[Tiramisu]

Posted by Watersidewonker
BASSA/Unite have backed it's workers and today we saw justice against the the bullying tactics of a company acting like a headless chicken.

Watersidewonker,
What about the bullying tactics of some of the BASSA die-hards against their own colleagues?
Derek Simpson said on Sky news today 'our cabin crew are not militants, they are intelligent and articulate people.'
How do you explain the posts below which appeared in News Of The World on Sunday,(not a paper I read btw) from the BASSA forum under a thread 'First Flight With Scabin Crew.'
I shuddered when I read it.
The bullying, if only the press knew the truth is only one way, from the the BASSA die hards!
One thing is for sure, I won't have to put up with this militant minority when I come to work to serve our customers during the strike, which I will, even if I have to work for free.

Harry’s no1 Post subject:
Posted: 06 May 2010 13:48
You'll recognise the SCABS right away as they have 3 eyes and have a very unpleasant stench coming off them....


DontTouchTheTrolleyDARLING Post subject: Re: FIRST FLIGHT WITH SCABIN CREW
Posted: 06 May 2010 13:58
dont worry,. they will need your help one day.. situation. a burning aircraft down the back.. scab caught up in balls of fire saying help me help me..
reaction.. burn you bastard burn. poor scabin crew!

I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views.

[BentleyH]

You insinuate that BA employees are the same as workers that you quote. BA pays your wages to state the obvious. It is a privatised company. It will not be supported by government. You can't compare workers of a private company to those you quote. Is that relevant enough for you?

[Human Factor]

BASSA/Unite have backed it's workers and today we saw justice against the the bullying tactics of a company acting like a headless chicken.

They're not BASSA/Unite workers, they are BA workers.

Secondly, corporate law obliged BA to seek the injunction if they thought it was workable. They had no choice so hardly "headless chicken".

[yellowdog]

You insinuate that BA employees are the same as workers that you quote. BA pays your wages to state the obvious. It is a privatised company. It will not be supported by government. You can't compare workers of a private company to those you quote. Is that relevant enough for you?

No not really!

Are you saying no private company should have union representation because the government won't be there to bail them out?

Why can't I compare workers from other unionised areas of the work force? Other big privatised companies also have unionised work forces, that surprisingly enough aren't militant and do a good job of go-between, between the employers and employees.

The way I see it is; BASSA have had it good for years and have got too big for their boots. They seem to think the Company revolves around them.

If we had a union that was more forward thinking and more able to understand the need for change then IR wouldn't be where it is today. Oh hang on we did have one of those - but then they seem to be forgotten in all of this.

At my base we always had very good IR, and things got sorted, deals got done and everyone was happy.

It is a shame people seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush; all BA crew do not belong to BASSA, all BA crew do not agree with the situation and how we got there, and all BA should think carefully when burning their bridges with regard to union membership!

[wiggy]

It is a shame people seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush; all BA crew do not belong to BASSA, all BA crew do not agree with the situation and how we got there, and all BA should think carefully when burning their bridges with regard to union membership!

I don't think all of us are tarring everybody with the same brush, but the question many are asking is how BASSA ended up with what seems, when viewed from the outside, such an extreme bunch of Reps. At best the BASSA electorate weren't paying attention to candidate's manifestos when putting crosses in boxes, at worse they knew what was going on but were prepared to turn a blind eye to some of the excesses because BASSA genuinely seemed to do a good job of protecting the LHR Cabin Crew cadre.

Personally I have always been a believer in the role of modern Unions but I always keep an eye on what my Union, and my Reps, are doing in my name.

[Betty girl]

I am a purser for British Airways and I have only just started to read the posts on this forum.

I did not strike and I have been upset for some time now that the union ( and I am in the usually more moderate branch Amicus/cc89) has not been more willing to negotiate. It has been clear to many crew that savings could be made. For instance on eurofleet we really do not need CSD's, Pursers are able to take out aircraft in-charge. We could have agreed to Fixed links and to work later on our last days and to the new crew compliments. In fact, if we had a union willing to negotiate, we would not be in this mess now with New Fleet bearing down on us. However many of the union reps are CSD's. Say no more!

This said, however, it is not all one sided. Mr. Walsh has agrivated the situation. He has fed false information about how much crew earn. The salaries quoted in the paper are those of the senior crew on the old contract prior to 1997. Crew that joined after that date earn less that 20,000 pa (which includes their allowances) Many of them have a basic pay of £12,000. He seemes to think it is ok to rubbish all of us and turn all our collegues against us.

Many of us did not strike and do not agree with the strike but we are all being tarred with the same brush. To hear some of the comments on this site is very upsetting.

The majority of us are stuck in the middle between TWO sets of children and we are unable to do anything about it. We are totally powerless. The last vote took place a long time ago and many crew voted the way they did because they were very upset with the way they were being portrayed in the paper.

Now many of them feel they have nothing to loose because they feel they are being punished for striking. As I said before, I did not strike but I have had many crew crying on my flights. It is not a nice place to work right now.It is very strange on some flights because people act like nothing is going on, because they don't know how others voted and they don't want to have any upset. We are all being made out to be these bad people but all crew want to do is safeguard there livelihoods. Unfortunately some have been persuaded to do this by striking. Now what we need is a CEO that looks at the bigger picture and gives this mad union a way out of this mess. He has not done this and I do believe that he does have a bigger agenda. Had he agreed to return staff travel this strike would certainly not be happening.

Please dont all hate crew because we are stuck in this situation and many, like me, who voted NOT to strike are powerless to do anything. Even crew who voted YES to strike are nice people (mostly). We would not be doing a job like this in the first place if we were not a caring bunch.

Some of the hatred on this forum is of no help.

Many thanks for listening to my side of this.

[Andyismyname]

News of the World article

For those who want to read the whole article that Tiramisu refers to, its at Union militants waged sinister campaign of abuse and threats against British Airways cabin crew. | News Of The World

Hmmm, I think that its not BA which is doing the "Bullying and Harrassment". Its a shame that The Times, Telegraph and Daily Mail havent picked up on it.

[Nevermind]

Betty Girl

You have my utmost sympathy, along with many of the crew.

But how do we sort out the wheat from the chaff? How do we give the wheat a way out, without sending the wrong message to the chaff?

Surely turning up on Monday is the final answer?

[HiFlyer14]

Please dont all hate crew because we are stuck in this situation and many, like me, who voted NOT to strike are powerless to do anything.

Hi Betty Girl,

I fully agree with most of what you say - except the above. Please do not think we are powerless - we simply cannot sit back and allow this corrupt and dysfunctional union to destroy our livelihoods.

You need to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council at www.mypccc.co.uk and together we must all show that we are not powerless. What other choice do we have?
See you in CRC on Monday.

[License to Fly]

willie walsh on YouTube today :

YouTube - British Airways: Willie Walsh on the Court of Appeal decision on the BA cabin crew strike 20 May

apparently the sticking points are not ONLY staff travel/disciplinary issues

more union spin then ...

[Wirbelsturm]

This said, however, it is not all one sided. Mr. Walsh has agrivated the situation. He has fed false information about how much crew earn. The salaries quoted in the paper are those of the senior crew on the old contract prior to 1997. Crew that joined after that date earn less that 20,000 pa (which includes their allowances) Many of them have a basic pay of £12,000. He seemes to think it is ok to rubbish all of us and turn all our collegues against us.

I seem to remember that the figures in the press came from the CAA not from BA. Willie Walsh has never, as far as I am aware, publically given exact figures. He has simply re-iterated that BA Cabin Crew are amongst the best paid in the UK industry.

Please dont all hate crew because we are stuck in this situation and many, like me, who voted NOT to strike are powerless to do anything. Even crew who voted YES to strike are nice people (mostly). We would not be doing a job like this in the first place if we were not a caring bunch.

The majority of posters who post sensible, balanced arguments, not the one liner rhetoric spouters are actually firmly behind the requirement of Cabin Crew to have a pro active Union. The target of anger in most cases is not the Cabin Crew or the Cabin Crew community but the Union that seems to think it can crash the company and to hell with the rest of us.

BASSA is the target. BASSA refuses to negotiate. BASSA want to re-instate Reps who have been through the Union agreed disciplinary process and been found wanting. BASSA call the disciplining of members who post sensitive data on public forums and threaten other staff members or their families as 'victimisation'. BASSA move the goal posts when even Tony Woodley agrees that a settlement can be reached. BASSA misled its members into returning non valid ballot papers. BASSA lied about the state of the company and its finances to garner support.

The list goes on.

Nothing is, generally, on a personal level and never should be.

[Sporran]

BA at it's best!

Just had a call from a friend because his daughter was flying to Africa with BA on Hotline tickets that I had obtained.

Initial notification that her flight was cancelled and they were unable to get through on the phone. Before I managed to call my friend back I am delighted to say that BA Customer Services have come up trumps. Initially they were not able to get my friend's daughter on a flight for 2 weeks, but since she is going out to do voluntary work with children, as part of a larger group, BA have now re-routed her and her friends AND are picking up the tab for the connecting flights.
THAT is BA at it's best and makes me proud to be part of BA!

However, all the lies, deceipt, bullying and detestable behaviour from the scum from bassa is at the other end of the customer service experience. My flight today had a really nasty underlying feeling about it! The atmosphere is sometimes caustic and cannot go on. I actually believe that the conduct of some of the bassa die-hards is now having an effect on safety!!!!!!!!!!

WW has been incredibly patient so far - even with some totally awful conduct and personal abuse aimed at him!!

It is now time to take the gloves off!!

The results for 2009/10 will be out tomorrow - and will make scary reading. Such bad figures will be another weapon in WWs armoury and I will not be surprised if he decides to go for compulsory reduncancies - hopefully of the people that are causing so much grief to the vast majority.

[giza]

??

What I can`t understand is that anyone who has a case against the company and feels so strongly about it that they are prepared to go out on stike would surely do so with a heavy heart, but these militants positively revel in that they are now abble to go on strike, and bring down the very airline that has feed them so well in the paste, its unbelieveable that these people can be so short sighted that winning the battle exceeds all else, unless they see sense the war will be lost, for all of us, as someone will sense our weakness from battle weariness and pick us off, some one will come in and take us over , make huge job cuts and offer much less favourable conditions to those that are left.

Is that what you want, cos thats what will `appen.

[whatdoesthisbuttondo]

BA are about to announce yet another record loss. Over 400 million loss last year 600 + million loss this year.

Is it possible the company isn't actually being run that well?

[harryhoofter]

Willie Walsh has never, as far as I am aware, publically given exact figures.

British Airways' Willie Walsh: I can't let this union drag us to destruction | This is Money