Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA pilots vote to strike

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA pilots vote to strike

Old 28th Jul 2019, 23:08
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 578
Thanks for the clarification.

The information in my last post came from one of your colleagues but as we were both passing through security, there was little time to chat more.

​​​​​​​Good luck to you all!
Emma Royds is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2019, 01:45
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 769
Whenever I have been involved in industrial action normally one of the first things the company has done it get the staff to notify if they are taking part in the said action. They do/did it under the guise of forward schedule planning and pay calculations etc but could certainly be used to withdraw perks like staff travel etc, don't expect them to play nice.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2019, 11:13
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 204
https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/P...egal-challenge


BA have had their appeal dismissed. Kudos to BALPA for having their ducks in a row on this. Keep up the good fight!
The Mixmaster is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2019, 12:24
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/P...egal-challenge


BA have had their appeal dismissed. Kudos to BALPA for having their ducks in a row on this. Keep up the good fight!
absolutely! Itís good to see that unions have finally cottoned onto using management style tools against them. I have been relentlessly frustrated watching management of many airlines using the legal system to thwart workers plans. I could never figure out why the unions werenít alert to this in a similar fashion.

And they should engage decent PR people to get their message across. eg immediate rebuttal of managementís disappointment at pilots threatening passenger travel plans, stating we are disappointed at managementís position forcing the pilots to feel it necessary to consider such drastic action.

In fact getting that out ahead of corporate spin is the way to go.
Starbear is online now  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 13:57
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 648
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments


This article is a nasty piece of work
Officer Kite is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 15:15
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 99
The Daily Mail is a nasty piece of work
fivecandles is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 16:44
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 359
The Daily Mail exists to sell the Daily Mail. Accurate reporting is a secondary consideration.
Tay Cough is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 17:14
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 380
I was told by a neighbour on our street that I should be ashamed of myself. He said itís disgusting that I am earning 200k whilst others struggle........FFS........I donít earn half that and thus far I have not done anything. I certainly donít feel ďsafe and secureĒ when the company allows these articles to go unchallenged
bex88 is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 17:48
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
I was told by a neighbour on our street that I should be ashamed of myself. He said itís disgusting that I am earning 200k whilst others struggle........FFS........I donít earn half that and thus far I have not done anything. I certainly donít feel ďsafe and secureĒ when the company allows these articles to go unchallenged
As one wise sage commented - ďIf only I worked as little as my neighbour does and also earned as much as my neighbour thinks I doĒ

To a large degree most people have a choice in life regarding their career path. Iím guessing your neighbour had that choice also.
Iím a commercial pilot for a well known UK airline - and Iíve been shocked quite frankly at BA managementís industrial behaviour.
In a word - amateur

May I suggest that those critics amongst you take time to consider the facts before commenting so ignorantly.
Had the Daily Angry and the like actually done so then what they would have reported would have been fact.

But hey - never ever let the truth get in the way of a ďgoodĒ story. !

The very best of luck to our fellow UK pilots in BA

Enough is enough quite frankly


Ranmore is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 18:51
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: A little south of the "Black Sheep" brewery
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by UAV689 View Post
i dont give 2 hoots what the public or press say.


-- then --

Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments


This article is a nasty piece of work
Not the time to get thin-skinned now!
Trossie is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 20:30
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Farnborough Hants
Posts: 52
Would the pilots dare disrupt the nominal 100 year anniversary on August Bank Holiday weekend (England and Wales)?
Paul Lupp is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 05:54
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,331
TBH Paul in the current climate I'm not sure many pilots hold the anniversary date dear to their hearts, and anyway some of the special company events, such as HM the Queens visit to company HQ, have already happened.

If the date of the (alleged ) 100th anniversary falls within the nominated dates for Industrial Action (IA) and that IA takes place then personally I can't see it escaping the disruption.

Last edited by wiggy; 2nd Aug 2019 at 06:15.
wiggy is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 07:57
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,848
Morning all

I have just been walking my dog with a neighbour who has return flights to Denver booked with BA in September. He has no connection with aviation whatsoever and is thoroughly bemused as to why BA pilots are not content with the three year deal that is on offer from their employers. As I have been out of the industry since retirement three years ago ( not BA ), could someone give me a simple one paragraph reason as to why this deal is unacceptable - I can then pass it on to my chum.

Thanks in anticipation - I take no sides in the issue whatsoever !
beamer is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 08:42
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,331
beamer..

First question would be what does your friend think the three year deal is?

The sensible will recognise a need to take care in 100% candidly and honestly answering your quite reasonable follow up question..I have been looking around for a suitable BALPA sanctioned public statement/press release but so far have failed to find one.
wiggy is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 09:50
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South London
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Maxfli View Post
2018 £1,952m +10.3%
2017 £1,769m +20%
2016 £1,473m +16.5%

£5.19b in 3 years.
What % did SNR Cruz share with the Nigels?
I will have to look at the IAG Annual Report to see which numbers you are picking up. I don't know the history between BA and the pilots; apparently they took a salary cut or changed T&C's when things were lean? However, one thing I do find strange about BA employees' perception on how BA as a firm should behave it is the idea that it is workers cooperative, where the fruits of the labour and rewards are equally shared. I get the impression that this is a legacy from being a State owned airline which hasn't quite diminished.
Tight Accountant is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 10:44
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 210
From what I can see as an outsider the main problems with the deal are as follows:

(i) The pilots took a pay cut when BA was struggling but now that the airline is performing well financially the pay cut hasn't been repaid after being adjusted for inflation.
(ii) The proposed deal is supposedly in-line with inflation, however unspecified productivity demands labelled as "management changes" are being made of pilots which could affect the pilots' quality of life/fatigue. Productivity related pay increases should be discussed over and above the inflation part of a pay deal when things are going well and it should be specified exactly what these productivity changes are.
(iii) There doesn't seem to be any inflation lock on the proposed deal, at least where I work pay deals take the form of "RPI +x%" or "£x or RPI whichever is greater", so if inflation rose, pilots would still be out of pocket.
(iv) General dissatisfaction at large with the way the airline is being run, especially regarding rostering and accomodation.

It may be true that BA isn't a workers co-operative, however that's one of the main reasons why trade unions were formed, to strengthen the workers' position in negotiations with the forces of capital. The capital/labour relationship is a two-way one, without labour capital doesn't develop and without capital, there is no-one to employ the labour force.
Chris the Robot is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 10:58
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scandinavia
Age: 42
Posts: 143
Fellow pilots with BA and elsewhere!

Avoid discussions in media. Avoid discussions with dog walking neighbors. I'm with SAS and we recently survived a wee long strike where representatives of the airline industry in Scandinavia desperately tried to hang us out in media with salaries etc.

Trust your union, your colleagues and yourself. Best of luck!
MD80rookie is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 11:24
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Age: 74
Posts: 296
Originally Posted by Tight Accountant View Post
I will have to look at the IAG Annual Report to see which numbers you are picking up. I don't know the history between BA and the pilots; apparently they took a salary cut or changed T&C's when things were lean? However, one thing I do find strange about BA employees' perception on how BA as a firm should behave it is the idea that it is workers cooperative, where the fruits of the labour and rewards are equally shared. I get the impression that this is a legacy from being a State owned airline which hasn't quite diminished.
I do not believe for one moment that BA staff consider the company as a workerís co-operative but there is nothing wrong with wanting to share on the companies success when it is making seriously good profits, and especially after the management said it could not have been achieved without their efforts.

Quite some years ago I owned and ran a small aviation related company. My small team were paid for the work they did, regardless. However when we made good profits, we usually did, I shared that success with them in the form of a Christmas bonus. It worked, they had something tangible to show for their loyalty and good work, not just fine words.

Now, I wonder, just what the Directors in BA receive as THEIR profit related bonus ( directors íbonuses are very tax efficient) and how that is related to company profits and why key staff should not, similarly, share in success.
RetiredBA/BY is online now  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 12:42
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Farnborough Hants
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by RetiredBA/BY View Post

Now, I wonder, just what the Directors in BA receive as THEIR profit related bonus ( directors íbonuses are very tax efficient) and how that is related to company profits and why key staff should not, similarly, share in success.
As I said previously, the rich are getting richer and the poor, poorer. Executive pay is out of control with wholly unjustifiable levels of pay rises for people who are simply doing their job well.
In the case of BA and no doubt, many other firms, the fact that they are run by people who are, to put it kindly, complete a**holes, doesn't help matters.....
Paul Lupp is offline  
Old 2nd Aug 2019, 13:25
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 36
Posts: 204
Originally Posted by Tight Accountant View Post
I will have to look at the IAG Annual Report to see which numbers you are picking up. I don't know the history between BA and the pilots; apparently they took a salary cut or changed T&C's when things were lean? However, one thing I do find strange about BA employees' perception on how BA as a firm should behave it is the idea that it is workers cooperative, where the fruits of the labour and rewards are equally shared. I get the impression that this is a legacy from being a State owned airline which hasn't quite diminished.

Perhaps you can explain why Jet2 offer their pilots a profit share or EasyJet offer theirs a share save scheme?

IAG Executive management were asked by analyst investors today who will win as the match between BALPA & BA management goes into a penalty shoot out. Alex Cruz didnít have much to say. Keep up the good work BALPA. Your colleagues in other airlines and associations Europe wide are right behind you
The Mixmaster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.