SAS Ireland SAIL

[Burpbot]

Actually many SFO’s have been offered DEC or fast track commands in a variety of companies.

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Let me start with saying, that I attended SAIL selection last year and passed it. However, I decided to decline the contract, because it was crap. I also felt didn’t want to be involved in a conflict between the management and the Mainline Pilots.

However, after reading the comments above, presumably from SAS Mainline guys, about how high standards they have and how everyone else is crap, I have lost all the sympathy. What do you know about standards of other airlines and pilots, if you have only flown for one ol’Boys club, where everyone is patting each other on the back and telling themselves how good they are?

You are flying same airplanes as everyone else, in the same sky, to the same destinations, using same procedures and in the same regulatory framework, under supervision of the same CAA. What makes you think you are better pilots than others? With attitude like this, you deserve to be shafted.

P.S. this also pertains to some “astronauts“ from other major/legacy airlines. If you guys want support for your case, you first need to get of your high horse...

[maxpeck]

I think most pilots in europe can press the autopilot buttons to a similar standard these days.....

[172_driver]

I think the thread has run its course.

I started it as another manifestation of what union busting/employee shafting looks like. It wasn’t about who’s got the highest standards. Mainline crew is sceptical about management decision to drop the Scandinavian in SAS, yes... but that was done before SAIL got off the ground. Now sub-contracting is being sold to the cheapest bidder.

I am more concerned about the leadership and ethics of my employer. They took care of us. Latest actions (and there is more to it than SAIL) show their true colors. I for one which nothing bad upon any individual, but I do hope that SAIL is a short lived story. Not to stick it to anyone. Just to stop the shafting of the employees and its union. They haven’t been unreasonable in any way, just mere wage increases to keep in line with inflation. Most demands have come from management.

[2802th]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but all I said was the experience level of the pilots accepting positions in SAIL is higher than the industry average. This is obviously because an airline with very long term career pilots has gone bust, which as someone else on here eluded to is a bonus for the SAIL recruitment team.
Any 5/4 contract for a U.K. based pilot, not wanting the modern day version of long haul, living 1hour from LHR is a dream. Crap is an interesting term 150k in China is great until the divorce and the wife keeps the house! That’s crap. Again I speak with personal experience of 35 years in this industry and with many friends working in all corners of this industry, ranging from Senior management to F/O’s.

FWIW the general concensus amongst the guys and girls I’m flying with is it’s a very pleasant place to be, New A/C, high standards, good destinations and a feeling of belonging. Yes the Ts and Cs need improving but that is achievable.

[returnofthemack]

Don't worry, it will be short lived - at least they didn't name it Snowflake (google it together with SAS - it lasted a hole year, so I guess SAIL can only do better!) - that came and left as quick as a snowflake. Too bad for the good guys that are joining this SAILing project, hoping for the best. But then again, I hope and suspect at lot of the SAILing joiners are just there for a tempo job (who else would accept the substandard contract), until something better (not hard!) comes along! Good luck with that project.

Now have a laugh at this link, and imagine "Snowflake" renamed "SAS Ireland";https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(airline) - google snowflake SAS

[GScapture]

This thread was about SAIL and now people are just arguing about everything

People are getting offended way too easily. Anyone who has any amount of sense in his/her head understands the dynamics of this industry and the social dumping that the European authorities allow.

Last thing I would do is to offend a fellow colleague of doing his job. Like he was the one who decided to undercut someone’s contract? Not to mention to be happy about it? People are just trying to feed their families and get their mortgages paid.

Don’t hate the people, hate the industry.

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

Originally Posted by 2802th

Correct me if I’m wrong, but all I said was the experience level of the pilots accepting positions in SAIL is higher than the industry average (...).

@2802th, just to set this straight - my previous post was not directed at you, but some earlier comments of this thread...

[highfive]

Originally Posted by 2802th

Most UK airlines have many pilots from all European countries. My UK colleagues are basically excluded from all the major European carriers no second third language etc etc. Yes this is the reality like it or not.

This fact is the primary reason UK airline pay and conditions have plummeted compared to the 80s. The UK CAA Licence was the bees knees , and was a desired qualification. As was the queens english

[172_driver]

At the moment, two Irish and one English airline flying for SAS in SAS colors. No Scandinavian language requirements.

[tprop]

As usual, descending into a “my **** is bigger than your **** contest. Some really assinine boasts and comments being thrown around. Can´t imagine these posters are SK mainline, they sound like wannabes.
“returnofthemack", you are embarrassing, crawl back under your rock.

That said: returof…. is dead on with his comment that SAIL is a union busting exercise. Wether you are xMonarch or some other down on his luck jock, whining about having to pay a mortgage is pathetic. This IS a union busting exercise, and if you take this job then you are part of it. You forfeit forever your right to bitch, you are forever part of the problem, an accelerator in the race to the bottom, and if you want a modicum of respect from your peers you should at least own up to it.

[returnofthemack]

Originally Posted by Graybulls

Returnofthemack

You avoided answering the question though, about what you would do, if God forbid, you found yourself in the same position......bills to be paid, wife/kids upset etc.

Or would you put your principles before your family?

Perhaps my family are staying with me because I have principles and see them through. Just because YOU're not able to make principles and family work out together with yours - doesn't mean others can't. It's called planning ahead - something that should be a corner stone in any pilot.

[Graybulls]

Absolutely, I wouldn't have lasted over 30 years in this industry without doing so, but thanks ever so much for the tip!

But 'Planning Ahead' is somewhat difficult when you wake up on Mon Oct 2nd to find out you have been made unemployed overnight.

I personally will never make an apology whatsoever, for putting my family first, always have done, always will do.

For what its worth, I'm not at SAIL, but I wish my former colleagues well with their new employment, because that's what nice people do

[returnofthemack]

You sound like a top bloke with all good intentions! Too bad it came as such a surprise to you that the ship was sinking. This is just another business - being nice before smart - may not always pay off. Guess even 30 years of experience didn't teach you that - just proves that experience is NOT everything. Good luck once again.

[Aeromaniac]

Wow. So full of hate and bitterness, you must be a joy to spend the day with Mack!

Are you this bitter against the other carriers that wear SAS colours!

I understand the worry of SAS starting a subsidiary, terms and conditions at mainline could come down.
However after start up, the t&c seem to be creeping upwards at SAIL, on par Easyjet.

Instead of being bitter at people purely seeking employment I’d be more worried by your own SAS management.
Mainline obviously can’t compete against Norwegian, Easyjet and Ryanair etc.
This is why a cheaper operation is meant to be helping out.
If they don’t make mainline work in the modern day and age, you could find t&c cuts and redundancy a lot closer to home!
Every other airline in Europe is going through it , BA, Lufthansa, Air France etc all have low cost subsidiaries!
Welcome to the new world!

[returnofthemack]

Thanks for your concern, it's very warming, and much needed (and laughable!)
The ones that needs to be worried are the ones that are sliding into the SAIL ship.

You're comparison with the other European legacy carrier exposes your lack of understanding of what's going on with SAS and the SAIL. SAIL is operating on core mainline routes with an, optically at least, identical product, but at a fraction of the price, party because of substandard crewing (lets just pretend it's just the CoS, otherwise you all go itchy touchy chicks), and partly because the majority of the overheads (costs) are covered or heavily subsidized. Conveniently, for the conquer and divide SAS management, mainline SAS are getting no discounts. I guess all of this is nonsense and irrelevant to any of you guys joining SAIL to undercut the mainline SAS (with industry standard CoS).

Just remember this. Don't come crying in a couple of years (Snowflake) when SAS chooses to shut down the operation. You'll surely be on your own -with little or no sympathy. Too bad you don't like being talked to directly and all have to be so god damn sensitive. Losing a job in one place - doesn't give anybody the entitlement to another job at any price. Short sighted princesses.

[Aeromaniac]

That just shows your immature lack of understanding of the current aviation industry. You sound like the old dinosaurs who refuse to accept that the world has changed since they joined their perfect flag carrier of persons own country.
If one is twice the price to run, guess which will be cut first! Aviation is all
About cutbacks these days!
I know, I have already passed and been offered employment previously at Emirates, I turned them down due to the cutbacks there, not worth the move for me! 1 in 6 get through, let me know if you are good enough!

[172_driver]

However after start up, the t&c seem to be creeping upwards at SAIL, on par Easyjet

Is that a fact or speculation? If they find crew, why would they improve T&C?

[172_driver]

We'll see about that then. Employing people in Scandinavia is expensive, the employer's social contributions are high. The rational for hiring people abroad to do our flying. If they increase T&C that would defeat the purpose. In terms of money net of tax, I think SAIL could already be ahead of mainline SK.

[matt283]

One thing that is worth mentioning is the fact that the whole airline is run by agency - cae park aviation...