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SAS Ireland SAIL

Old 5th Feb 2018, 00:56
  #241 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Outta town
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by 2802th View Post
Most UK airlines have many pilots from all European countries. My UK colleagues are basically excluded from all the major European carriers no second third language etc etc. Yes this is the reality like it or not.
This fact is the primary reason UK airline pay and conditions have plummeted compared to the 80s. The UK CAA Licence was the bees knees , and was a desired qualification. As was the queens english
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 06:38
  #242 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037
At the moment, two Irish and one English airline flying for SAS in SAS colors. No Scandinavian language requirements.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 06:44
  #243 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: europe
Posts: 34
As usual, descending into a “my **** is bigger than your **** contest. Some really assinine boasts and comments being thrown around. Can´t imagine these posters are SK mainline, they sound like wannabes.
“returnofthemack", you are embarrassing, crawl back under your rock.

That said: returof…. is dead on with his comment that SAIL is a union busting exercise. Wether you are xMonarch or some other down on his luck jock, whining about having to pay a mortgage is pathetic. This IS a union busting exercise, and if you take this job then you are part of it. You forfeit forever your right to bitch, you are forever part of the problem, an accelerator in the race to the bottom, and if you want a modicum of respect from your peers you should at least own up to it.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 09:26
  #244 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by Graybulls View Post

You avoided answering the question though, about what you would do, if God forbid, you found yourself in the same position......bills to be paid, wife/kids upset etc.

Or would you put your principles before your family?
Perhaps my family are staying with me because I have principles and see them through. Just because YOU're not able to make principles and family work out together with yours - doesn't mean others can't. It's called planning ahead - something that should be a corner stone in any pilot.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 11:52
  #245 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Uk
Posts: 8
Absolutely, I wouldn't have lasted over 30 years in this industry without doing so, but thanks ever so much for the tip!

But 'Planning Ahead' is somewhat difficult when you wake up on Mon Oct 2nd to find out you have been made unemployed overnight.

I personally will never make an apology whatsoever, for putting my family first, always have done, always will do.

For what its worth, I'm not at SAIL, but I wish my former colleagues well with their new employment, because that's what nice people do
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 20:27
  #246 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 33
You sound like a top bloke with all good intentions! Too bad it came as such a surprise to you that the ship was sinking. This is just another business - being nice before smart - may not always pay off. Guess even 30 years of experience didn't teach you that - just proves that experience is NOT everything. Good luck once again.

Last edited by returnofthemack; 6th Feb 2018 at 21:19.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 07:22
  #247 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Planet Mars
Posts: 15
Wow. So full of hate and bitterness, you must be a joy to spend the day with Mack!

Are you this bitter against the other carriers that wear SAS colours!

I understand the worry of SAS starting a subsidiary, terms and conditions at mainline could come down.
However after start up, the t&c seem to be creeping upwards at SAIL, on par Easyjet.

Instead of being bitter at people purely seeking employment I’d be more worried by your own SAS management.
Mainline obviously can’t compete against Norwegian, Easyjet and Ryanair etc.
This is why a cheaper operation is meant to be helping out.
If they don’t make mainline work in the modern day and age, you could find t&c cuts and redundancy a lot closer to home!
Every other airline in Europe is going through it , BA, Lufthansa, Air France etc all have low cost subsidiaries!
Welcome to the new world!
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 08:54
  #248 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 33
Thanks for your concern, it's very warming, and much needed (and laughable!)
The ones that needs to be worried are the ones that are sliding into the SAIL ship.

You're comparison with the other European legacy carrier exposes your lack of understanding of what's going on with SAS and the SAIL. SAIL is operating on core mainline routes with an, optically at least, identical product, but at a fraction of the price, party because of substandard crewing (lets just pretend it's just the CoS, otherwise you all go itchy touchy chicks), and partly because the majority of the overheads (costs) are covered or heavily subsidized. Conveniently, for the conquer and divide SAS management, mainline SAS are getting no discounts. I guess all of this is nonsense and irrelevant to any of you guys joining SAIL to undercut the mainline SAS (with industry standard CoS).

Just remember this. Don't come crying in a couple of years (Snowflake) when SAS chooses to shut down the operation. You'll surely be on your own -with little or no sympathy. Too bad you don't like being talked to directly and all have to be so god damn sensitive. Losing a job in one place - doesn't give anybody the entitlement to another job at any price. Short sighted princesses.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 09:11
  #249 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Planet Mars
Posts: 15
That just shows your immature lack of understanding of the current aviation industry. You sound like the old dinosaurs who refuse to accept that the world has changed since they joined their perfect flag carrier of persons own country.
If one is twice the price to run, guess which will be cut first! Aviation is all
About cutbacks these days!
I know, I have already passed and been offered employment previously at Emirates, I turned them down due to the cutbacks there, not worth the move for me! 1 in 6 get through, let me know if you are good enough!
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 10:53
  #250 (permalink)  
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Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037
However after start up, the t&c seem to be creeping upwards at SAIL, on par Easyjet
Is that a fact or speculation? If they find crew, why would they improve T&C?
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 13:37
  #251 (permalink)  
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We'll see about that then. Employing people in Scandinavia is expensive, the employer's social contributions are high. The rational for hiring people abroad to do our flying. If they increase T&C that would defeat the purpose. In terms of money net of tax, I think SAIL could already be ahead of mainline SK.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 22:41
  #252 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The rock
Posts: 227
One thing that is worth mentioning is the fact that the whole airline is run by agency - cae park aviation...
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 15:56
  #253 (permalink)  
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Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037

Thanks for caring so much for the rest of us than your ex-Monarch buddies. I don't get you... on one hand you don't like the way T&C are going, on the other you speak highly of this union busting set up, inviting expats to come home, low timers to gain experience. Then you go on to think that T&C is going to improve. Not really the hiring ground that sets the bar very high. SAIL was set up to reduce cost, not the other way around. It's called "In Shape". I am not sure SAIL pilots have been introduced to that term.

So please tell me more about this permanent contract that you'll get...... I am genuinly interested to know. Everyone would benefit if you got union representation to negotiate for you. Somehow I just don't think that is what SAS wants.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 16:32
  #254 (permalink)  
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Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037
Currently the contract is with CAE Parc leading to a permanent contract later this year or so I am told. Lets be grateful that many were to find work quickly as Job seekers allowance will only go so far.
I told so earlier that I don't hate the player, I am glad things are working out for those in dire straits. What I do have a beef with is the moral of flagging out. Not because I am Scandinavian and care more for Scandinavians than Brits, but because at least we've got a union that is fighting hard to just maintain the quality of life we've got. And then we're completely undermined by an agency airline that is putting even higher pressure on us to be flexible to management's demands.
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 16:54
  #255 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 55
Posts: 830
Union Busting!

How many pilots has SAS hired lately.?
How many SAS FOs has quit and gone to for example NOR or back to RYR?

SAIL was set up for Union busting to save a cent!
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Old 10th Feb 2018, 21:31
  #256 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here and there
Age: 44
Posts: 358
A lot of SAIL savings cone from the Irish tax breaks. Hence why Ireland has become the aviation flag of convenience.
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 08:44
  #257 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 272
The abhorrent race to the bottom - can it be stopped?

The head monkey at SAS was left with little competitive choice but to follow Boring Juice Airways and open new base(s) renting pilots from agency service providers.

The pilots union and its members may have been promised that “agency pilots will be offered permanent contracts when the base is profitable." Permanent contracts with the airline or another agency possibly disguised as a resource group to prevent an employment relationship with the airline(?).

Ex-Monarch pilots and others with union aspirations should carefully read their agency contracts for clauses that may be used to permit quick termination of their organizational skills without notice reason or recourse.

Don’t be fooled by any disingenuous “welcome to unions” that will have no representation with the airline. Boring Juice Airways pilots pay union dues for representation to their agency employer not the airline.

History shows that efforts to effect change by an airline’s core group of pilots should be carefully considered. Negotiations deteriorating to a strike could cause an airline to be reorganized into separate divisions where ALL pilots are rented from service providers – Link:


Monkey see, monkey do.
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Old 20th Feb 2018, 17:38
  #258 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scandinavia
Age: 42
Posts: 142
Recruitment for the Spanish base, most likely Malaga, is now in progress.

You have to be available to start within a few weeks.

Lower pay than Norwegian, worse schedule than the LHR base.

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Old 21st Feb 2018, 11:02
  #259 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Dk
Age: 29
Posts: 13
Anyone heard any news about DEC positions in CPH & ARN? Apparently that was mentioned before on some interviews, but nothing official as I can see.
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Old 21st Feb 2018, 13:09
  #260 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
via CAE @ Perser_dk?
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