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SAS Ireland SAIL

Old 12th Jan 2018, 16:50
  #201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
thanks guys!

same for us in Germany. Its not the unions fault. Of course NIKI and LGW operated with a small profit. Why? Because they got all their Overhead Maintenance CAMO Crewing ATO Lawyers Merchandizing technology Performance Slots from its mother. Did somebody ever look at the costs and has the mother ever sent a bill for all this groundhandling to niki/lgw with a reasonable amount? No! But we the Pilots are too expensive. . CEO´s can just look at the costs and McKinsey KPMG & Co can't value motivation.
And what happened in germany? Airberlin bought small crap airlines to put there slots to them and let others buy those airlines with slots. Both airlines wouldnt have been able to live 3 months without its mother.
2 Years ago i applied for SAS and its so sad that they break down the company. my dream is still to get back to Sweden and work there...
The company paid 10.000 Euro for one single off day for longhaul. The union told them since 4 years they have to employ people. But if you calculate with 95BHR for every employee and without sickness the boomerang kicks back.
But yeah listening to the union and employ two first officers for 4400€ each month is worse than paying 10.000 for one day off for a captain.

Its always such a surprise that the summer always begins in June !
gnarlberg is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2018, 07:25
  #202 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N37 56.3 E023 56.7
Posts: 52
It would be nice to hear from an insider how are things there as the company has started finally to fly...
giorgino is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2018, 08:47
  #203 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 142
Gnarlberg - I could not agree more.

PS - the pilots in SAS were never compensated with 10.000 euros for selling one day. More like 1.000 euros.
SE210 is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2018, 18:33
  #204 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
We also calculated and came to the conclusion that it would be cheaper to pay people to leave.
20 First Officers and 20 Captains all in the highest salary.
If you pay those 20 Captains 200.000 Euro each for leaving and quitting, let them go to Etihad and continue there last 3 years of their Career you could save Salary of 2 Years.
For this saved money you can upgrade the 20 very expensive first officers to captains, so they just become middle range captains in terms of salary. And you can employ 25 new First Officers which each cost 40% of the Old First Officers.

You have created opportunities for many and rearranged the salary distribution.But noooo the union is so dumb...

CEO´s current leadership style is : Divide and rule. This will kick back. Im sure that one AOC with motivated employees will be better in long term future than 5 AOC´s all operating the same A/C with contracts in 4 different countries. They divide and rule. then the union is forced to sign bad agreements. when these bad agreements are signed, they put the AOC´s together again and created a company where people fight against each other...
gnarlberg is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2018, 20:07
  #205 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037

It’s true the company would like to get rid of expensive pilots and have tried so through various methods. How wise that is is for anyone to judge. Personally I think it’s extremely short sighted.
172_driver is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2018, 13:13
  #206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 67
Best way to "get rid" is offer part time. Normally this is taken up by senior Captains, replace with "cheaper" Captains upgraded from FO who are replaced by cheaper new FO's.
Works well
GKOC41 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2018, 18:04
  #207 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Posts: 172
I heard there are "droves" of FOs from both ARN and OSL leaving the company for Norwegian since they are now employing to all nordic bases.


Is there any plans to take up recruitment for SAS nordic bases in the "near" future?
Or this loss of FOs will suit the company well so they can staff their SAS Ireland with new hires instead?
dcoded is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2018, 21:21
  #208 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037
The FOs that’ve left/about to leave are the “cheap once”, hired after 2013 who’ve realized they can earn more for the same work elsewhere. Or achieve a better quality of life elsewhere. Good thing is it sends a clear message to management that none have invested their life in this company.

Part time is also a hot topic, but generally works better if offered on a voluntary basis rather than forced upon the work force.

Is there any plans to take up recruitment for SAS nordic bases in the "near" future?
Part of the frustration that some may be feeling is that none knows where this ship is steering. If SAS will cease to exist as we know it and continue as a brand with cheaper production units (like SAIL) performing the work.

At some point they must hire more, but when and in what form remains unknown.
172_driver is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2018, 17:19
  #209 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Planet Mars
Posts: 15

So this reports 40-50 new A320 neos required on a possible order.
Selling off of various sections of the company, this making SAS attractive for a buyout from another company.

Will either of these happen?

Will LHR see extra a320’s?
Will they see any of the A330 on order?
Will they just become part of another carrier?

Will the current abysmal package ever improve to something half decent?
Aeromaniac is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2018, 19:47
  #210 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Burwash
Posts: 9
Look, as far as i'm concerned, I will be polite and friendly to ANY SAS pilot/crew I come across, if they are not so to me - that is up to them.

I like the Scandinavian people! I need to pay my mortgage. I very much doubt many SAS pilots would be prepared to relocate to LHR at no cost (but am prepared to be corrected) We are saving SAS money on many levels & helping the airline... I do understand the sceptisism from SAS crew however and hope to alleviate their concerns in the future..

You will find SAS Ireland VERY professional (many pilots are X Monarch whose stds were second to none - and the others I have met have shown outstanding stds too), we hope to emulate the standards of SAS mainline! I suspect if SAS Ireland didn't get off the ground, LHR would close or reduce services eventually.

As pilots we MUST all realise the airline is a business that MUST make money however.

AND Yes, there were many instances when Monarch pilots/union had NO idea the state the airline was in.
In 2014 & 2017 within weeks of an imminent collapse, we got pay rises and increases in T&C's...

Best of luck to you all...
R1ddle is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 01:01
  #211 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
Are there any news on SAS positions CPH ARN OSL? they have updated their Homepage sasgroup.net stating that they're looking for 320 FO´s in CPH, also the Head recruiter told me some weeks ago they're currently only looking via CAE for SAIL but I should keep my application up to date... some weeks ago the SASgroup.net website was frozen and it was written you can't update your application. Today it was possible to update upload stuff. Seems like there is movement ?

R1ddle, well you are breaking the neck of the old SAS crews and try to earn understanding for that. Thats not nice. And looking at their pay scale you def. earn more in UK.

Basic Salary
£ 3,300.00 per month
Flight allowance (applicable once 15 days worked in a month)
£1,000.00 per month
Overtime per b/h
£ 78.33 per b/h over 60
Overnight allowance
£ 51.00 per night
Standby daily rate
£ 50.00
+LOL , medical & accident insurance

SAS Scandinavia for ex.

28,845 SEK + Duty pay(?)
+4-5000 SEK per diem
gnarlberg is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 07:06
  #212 (permalink)  
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Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,037

I will naturally be pleasant to any crew I meet, colleagues as competitors. Any SAS pilot will, if they look themselves deep in the mirror, understand there is a human behind any SAIL position who does what’s best for him/her and their family. You can hate the game but not the players. With that said, I don’t think SAIL should’ve ever seen the light and I do react when you say that you help us and saving us money. That’s quite arrogant to say and nothing you or I know much about as normal line pilots. I wonder how many support functions SAIL is borrowing from SAS “free of charge”.

There is definitely sceptism about the direction this airline is heading. Some reasons that’s so 1. The Scandinavian image, we now often have flights without any Scandinavian speaking members (not only SAIL but other sub-contractors too). 2. Career progression, halted when we loose our work to SAIL. They’re actively looking for voluntary leave of absence. Hope that won’t escalate into layoffs... 3. The moral of flagging out the operation. We live in a country with a developed welfare system, with lots of service ranging from free nursery for our kids to free university degrees. I wonder if our own CEO forgot who paid his very own master? It sure wasn’t Ireland.


You numbers are off. I don’t have the exact ones in front of me but I think you start in the region of 37 000 SEK/month if rated, a bit less if not rated. No flight pay, same salary regarding of hours. Per diem depends on your destination, number of overnights and stop duration. You can see up to 8000 SEK/month in per diem. Do what you want with it, dine nice, spend on beer or save up.
172_driver is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 11:11
  #213 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post
I wonder how many support functions SAIL is borrowing from SAS “free of charge”
Thats exactly the problem. They only exist because of the hard working people in Scandinavia. SAIL surely has no ATO CAMO maintenance crewing overhead and stuff. its just a hull with airplanes and crew. That looks super good on the paper because they are making lots of profit.... and then SAS Scandinavia looks bad because they are expensive and don't make any profit....

i have experienced that in my company.

what is the next step? SAIL gets the interesting slots. then SAS goes bankrupt and the big German knocks on the door to "help". And what is he going to buy? exactly, SAIL. Aircraft and Slots maybe with crew. And all people working in Scandinavia can look for a new job. They took all their capital and put it into SAIL and let a big company buy out SAIL, because then they get the slots and aircraft without buying the whole "toxic" cake. Why? because he "" already has camo maintenance ato crewing and all other overhead. welcome to 2018 ladies and gentleman. exactly what happened in Germany.
gnarlberg is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 12:35
  #214 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 33
Unless some inexperienced SAS Ireland (SAIL) crew crash and burn, God forbid it, a SAIL plane, before the end of the real SAS. Can't be ruled out either.
returnofthemack is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 15:50
  #215 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: on a rugby pitch
Posts: 489
Originally Posted by returnofthemack View Post
Unless some inexperienced SAS Ireland (SAIL) crew crash and burn, God forbid it, a SAIL plane, before the end of the real SAS. Can't be ruled out either.
What you just wrote is completely unprofessional and shows only one thing: you are moved by hate.

Too bad.
Raski is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 16:43
  #216 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: on a rugby pitch
Posts: 489

Interesting speculation but i think you are completely “offroad”.
Raski is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 16:52
  #217 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 33

Not everybody can handle the truth, they'd rather speculate and hope the best. The fact is that the CoS offered are absolutely crap and will NOT attract solid, experienced pilots. Deal with it!
returnofthemack is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 17:44
  #218 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: on a rugby pitch
Posts: 489
I will deal with that if you wish, but:
For what i know average experience within SAIL is 3.5k hrs plus hrs for FOs and 10k hrs plus for Capts.
There are few juniors but they are rostered accordingly so dont worry ops are safe.
Standards are the same as SAS mainline.
If you want to wish for an accident then its another story.
If you think that ex Monarch are not solid and experienced then, well, its your opinion.

Last edited by Raski; 31st Jan 2018 at 20:47.
Raski is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2018, 18:32
  #219 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scandinavia
Age: 42
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by Raski View Post
Standards are the same as SAS mainline.
How long have you been flying together? For how long have you been building your company culture? How many Scandinavian winters have you experienced?
MD80rookie is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2018, 17:59
  #220 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 65
Im not at SAIL but I have been up in Helsinki during winter to operate for a local airline there. I don't think Scandinavian winters are something special, I would more say its easier than central european.

If the snow falls in Arlanda, so what? where is the problem? They are professionals in handling the snow, deicing, getting the airbus computers to work when its cold. Sure, braking action "good" isnt always good, its sometimes medium to poor, but we´re talking about an A320 landing, not Mriya A225 ! Same as the tailwind on "14" in LSZH. 3 knot tail on ATIS; 15 in real. Local specials you need to adapt to....
Its so easy flying up north in the winter in my opinion.

Imagine FCO, 5 cm of snow. They first need to get all deicers from the coffee machine , and every pilot is scared of taxiing on Ice/Snow so the whole airport would breakdown. Same in germany, france etc. its always a surprise that the winter starts in december....
If you have drifted a bit with cars in the alps on snow you know how an aircraft handles and that you need to make smooth inputs and be relaxed and not afraid.

So SAIL pilots are skilled exactly as other pilots. They're for sure doing a great job.
gnarlberg is offline  

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