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SAS Ireland SAIL

Old 8th Jun 2018, 22:39
  #401 (permalink)  
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Don't think CAE crews Cityjet? They've hired pilots through Scandinavian based agencies with collective bargaining agreement. Same with FlyBe.

Second hand info is that cabin crew, at least, from LHR have been sent to AGP to operate from there. I guess some form of CPR to proove to everyone that AGP is open and operating.


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Old 9th Jun 2018, 11:07
  #402 (permalink)  
 
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Seems like the main problem is the CAE as everything is run by them...

Lets see if SAIL will survive longer than snowflake...
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Old 9th Jun 2018, 20:31
  #403 (permalink)  
 
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Anybody who works for an agency must realise that the employer’s first loyalty is to the airline and the pilot comes last.The situation is skewed because we are currently in a very brief window where the availability of experienced crew is very low
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Old 9th Jun 2018, 21:06
  #404 (permalink)  
 
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One story if only the contract is with the agency and another story is when agency is actually running whole airline

Example: finnair has a base in BCN and crew is contracted by spanish agency, but everything else is run by finnair.
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Old 10th Jun 2018, 18:52
  #405 (permalink)  
 
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That figure of £4300/month for a skipper is horrifically low, not surprising they are having recruitment problems.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 12:25
  #406 (permalink)  
 
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you should see an FO payslip then...
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 12:59
  #407 (permalink)  
 
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Wow , that is exactly the average pay in Norway.
And we pay less tax in Norway these days.
Cool
Why would anyone plan on staying there for long.
And PS Malaga is not cheap anymore!!

Every single RYR FO in Malaga that has past 1500hrs makes more: Again Wow.
But then again that is in Reykjavik.
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Old 11th Jun 2018, 14:05
  #408 (permalink)  
 
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I did not hear about a single ryr agp skipper that applied to sail.

Also seems like EI-SIE did not fly since the 7th of Jun...

Last edited by matt283; 11th Jun 2018 at 17:04.
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Old 14th Jun 2018, 20:43
  #409 (permalink)  
 
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Fact: SAS Mainline is opening recruitment this fall. People in hold pool are given start dates in august.
Fact: SAS Ireland can not attract enough qualified, willing, able and suitable candidates.
Rumour: Two airframes headed for SAS Ireland are now going to SAS Mainline.
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Old 14th Jun 2018, 22:31
  #410 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MD80rookie View Post
Fact: SAS Mainline is opening recruitment this fall. People in hold pool are given start dates in august.
Fact: SAS Ireland can not attract enough qualified, willing, able and suitable candidates.
Rumour: Two airframes headed for SAS Ireland are now going to SAS Mainline.

SAS already started to look for cc as well for ARN base, but something is not right there, as at the bottom of the cc job vacancy they wrote:

¨I den här rekryteringen samarbetar vi med CAE. För frågor gällande rekryteringprocessen er du välkommen att kontakta CAE epost...¨

¨In this recruitment we work with CAE. For questions regarding the recruitment process, you are welcome to contact CAE email...¨
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 08:53
  #411 (permalink)  
 
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Good to hear that SAS is taking in more pilots, a lot of tired LOCO commuters that wants home!
Now the question is can they afford to start?

With regards to CAE
They have come a long way from building simulators.
In ca 2003 they bought Schreiner FlightcrewTraining as it was the 4 biggest at the time and Schreiner almost bankrupt.
We told them how a TRTO was run and everyone was happy.
Then the acquired some agency to milk that market to, and I am not sure they got the timing and the expertise right on that one.
Does not look like it in this case. .
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 09:55
  #412 (permalink)  
 
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Pretty sure SAS mainline will not be able to attract enough experienced pilots from the LOCOs around Europe. Spoke to a BA captain recently and even they are struggling to get enough people as pay is not competitive enough and nobody wants to fly SH out of LHR.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 10:27
  #413 (permalink)  
 
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Captin Prop, I agree with you. In order to lower costs by opening up SAS Ireland and LHR base SAS needed to keep the terms and conditions significantly lower than any competitor in UK. Ryanair permenant contracts (which are now offered to almost all the pilots) are miles better than SAS Ireland/CAE. The same goes for starting with SAS in Scandinavia. Apart from the other problems Ryanair pilots are facing in regards to their employer, pay, pension and roster is a lot better in Ryanair than SAS (both main and LHR/AGP).

The same goes for Norwegian right now, especially in the Nordic countries where they just hired quite a lot of pilots.

So SAS will be looking to hire pilots from the regional airlines (luckily for them, Nextjet just went belly up so there are some 80 pilots there, although quite a few of them has already been scooped up by the likes of Flybe, Cityjet, BRA etc.) or the still shady outfits with bogus self-employment and these pilots see that a career at SAS is not what it was 15 years ago, there are better options out there. Easy are hiring 900 pilots this year I read and the SAS main contract is substantially lower than Easy.

Although SAS claim to have 3000 applications in their datebase, I would think that 9 out of 10 of those are not interested in joining when they understand what the pay is and how and how much an SAS pilot actually works these days.

A quick comparison: Two pilots (both rated with 1500 hours) start at SAS ARN and Norweigan ARN respectively. After 20 years of service and 10 years to command the Norwegian pilot will have earned more than 20% better than the SAS pilot and the company contributed pension will be worth about 45% more than of the SAS pilot. The same story goes for most other airlines too unless you look at the likes of Primera, Air Baltic, Nordica (Regional Jet), Smartlynx etc.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 12:00
  #414 (permalink)  
 
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Plenty of scandinavian pilots in our base (european orange lowcost), and nobody is even remotely interested in joining SAS. Pay significantly higher where they are now, and better rosters too.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 17:38
  #415 (permalink)  
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I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.

As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.

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Old 15th Jun 2018, 20:02
  #416 (permalink)  
 
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Indeed,ca 6 months ago I bumped into a pilot I used to fly with , and he said SAS HQ was shocked to see 10 pilots leave for NOR , to get home and better pay and quicker upgrade.
Interesting times indeed.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 20:36
  #417 (permalink)  
 
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I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.
Yes, in 2013 I'm sure they did. Now its 2018 and the aviation world looks very different. Let's see.

CP
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 20:40
  #418 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 172_driver View Post
I am not so sure they won't find pilots for mainline. It wasn't a problem when recruitment opened in 2013 on a terrible pay. There is more to it than roster and pay. Proximity to friends amd family, particularly relevant when about to start a family. Some Scandis find themselves home abroad, many come home when the opportunity arise.

As for Norwegian, I believe SK Norway has seen quite a few people leave to NAS. Wasn't it in large for getting based closer to home? While there's been plenty of talk I really only know one in SK Sweden that has gone over. And that's stuff that usually spreads like wildfire.

Things have changed in the past 5 years. And many of the pilots that joined in 2013 and 2014 didn't even know the terms and conditions when they started. I've met a couple that was promised the old main pay scale when they joined but then realized there was a B scale in place.

5 years ago there was no SAS Ireland, Cityjet wasn't flying 22 ac, no Estonian company was wet leased and the general pilot market wasn't what it is today.

What is (was?) attractive with SAS is common seniority, long haul in house, basing close to home etc. But if RG gets his will through, those things are gone leaving it a company with substandard terms and no career prospects.

Time will tell.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 20:54
  #419 (permalink)  
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I guess it will much depend on where you put the bar, esp. hours and language proficiency. That'd be something.....!!
At least the recruitment team is still made up of pilots, thank god.

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Old 15th Jun 2018, 22:32
  #420 (permalink)  
 
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SAS Main is to hire with courses starting in August, but I wouldn’t recommend anyone to apply there. You are about 15 years from an upgrade, and wages are one of the worst in Scandiland. In addition they are cancelling alot of flights theese days, and the mood on the lines are terrible. Especially experienced crew are much better of staying and aiming for an upgrade somewhere else. Stay clear of the trap of «a Scandinavian dream». The company is torn apart with internal conflicts for many years now.
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