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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 7th Oct 2014, 18:01
  #781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
No it hasn't changed. You'll also remember that 'allocation' of a Christmas out line is governed by a lack of Christmas points, not a lack of seniority.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 18:23
  #782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,121
GS-Alpha

Yes, I remember that!

What has that got to do with my point or the price of fish?

I also remember the previous 'xox' type-system for allocating Xmas trips that were not bid for, do you?
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 18:36
  #783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
TopBunk

Shouldn't that be NO work should drop through.
OK, you've caught me out - In theory and under the rules as you and I knew them I'm sure you're right. However I'm not one of the bidline/scheduling gurus and recently the rules seem to be being amended every month (basically everytime there's a hiccup in the manning). Given that I'll stick to hedging my bets in case some poor bod gets assigned this year.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Oct 2014 at 19:01.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 20:08
  #784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 138
they will take the 737 as an acceptable rating when the supply of people rated on relevant types dries up. It is all about cost these days, BA will no longer pay for a rating they don't have to.p
Having said that with enough hours on the 737NG you get a significant discount on both the ground school and the simulator sessions required converting onto the B777. I don't know if the same applies converting from the 737NG or classic onto the B747.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 23:25
  #785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Skyrocket10,

Just remember you will likely be at the bottom of any long haul list for around 7yrs+. In that time, aside leave, you will have little to likely no control over days off (working every Xmas!), leave allocation or destinations. As a junior pilot in reserve band 1 you will also do more standby than the majority of the fleet for the first 5yrs. These things may seem trivial now, but give it a few years and see if you feel the same.
2/3rds of the bottom 50 or so F/Os on the 747 have only 0 or 1 Xmas point and many F/Os have only 2 or 3 points all the way to the top of the list.

Leave/DFW points acrew on a rolling 4 year basis. i.e. each week of leave you get has an associated number of points depending on its popularity (6 points to the least popular > 1 point to the most popular). Leave is allocated first to those with the most points gained over the previous 4 years and then working down the points list to those with the least points. As has already been said everybody wants different things so even with a few points you may still get some of the weeks you want in the first years.

I agree that under the Pre-August old bidding system junior guys did a lot more reserve. Since August however I have bid for reserve every month, as my points said I should, and never got it. This may be that now reserve guarantees a block of days off with no chance of allocation. So it seems to me that reserve is now a more popular bidding choice for the more senior bods. This may just be a temporary situation.

Every blind line on the 747 has a seeded trip. This means that each blind line has a reasonable trip pre allocated to it i.e a CPT, SFO, LAS, PHX. These are 4 day 3 crew trips with at least 2 days off afterwards.

There is the risk though, as you point out, that you may start on the 747 but as the fleet shrinks be directed to the Airbus 320. This has happened to a few guys on the 767 and they were rightly very p****d off. So buyer beware. They did though go from the bottom of the 767 to 100 off the bottom of the 320 list which gives them a much greater control of days off etc, and they now get to fly with mixed fleet.

The grass for a junior bod at BA is not bright green but I don't think it is as brown as you make out. Particularly if you are trying to get back to the UK or your present company is not that financially stable.

Regards
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 23:39
  #786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
TopBunk

That's twice in recent times you've replied rudely to me when I'm simply backing up what you've said. I'll leave you to it you rude little man.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 08:31
  #787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
Every blind line on the 747 has a seeded trip. This means that each blind line has a reasonable trip pre allocated to it i.e a CPT, SFO, LAS, PHX. These are 4 day 3 crew trips with at least 2 days off afterwards.
Not true, there are seeded blind lines but there are also a fair number of genuine blind lines. the seeds tend to go, not to the bottom, but to the middle level of seniority as they are too good a clashing tool to ignore. that said the destruction of BLRs being carried out under the auspices of the current BACC chairman has nullified that to some extent.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 08:40
  #788 (permalink)  
Junior trash
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Not true, there are seeded blind lines but there are also a fair number of genuine blind lines. the seeds tend to go, not to the bottom, but to the middle level of seniority as they are too good a clashing tool to ignore. that said the destruction of BLRs being carried out under the auspices of the current BACC chairman has nullified that to some extent.
binsleepen is right. All stage 1 blind lines on the 747 are seeded. Trip lines can also go all the way to the bottom on the 747 which is another good thing for the junior. The bottom of the list is at least getting LAS/PHX/SFO blind lines if they bid for them.

If somebody gets a blank blind line on the 747 after stage 1 it's because they forgot to bid/didn't get awarded any line they bid for.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 09:47
  #789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Juan,

As I understand it on the 747 the number of trip lines plus seeded blind lines plus reserve lines equals the effective numbers of bidders. So if you bid for everything you would get a trip line or seeded blind line unless you were allocated reseve.

As Hotel Mode says you will only get a blank blind line if you did not bid or you did not bid for enough i.e. everything you bid for was taken by someone more senior.

Regards
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 11:39
  #790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 95
2/3rds of the bottom 50 or so F/Os on the 747 have only 0 or 1 Xmas point and many F/Os have only 2 or 3 points all the way to the top of the list.
I'm not sure of exact numbers but the majority of these 50 joined in the last 2yrs.

My original figure was based on the fact that a colleague joined as a DEP on the 747 and was forced to work his first 2 Xmas, the next two he bid for reserve to avoid any assignment and was lucky enough to avoid any trips.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 13:43
  #791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
Posts: 248
Regardless of it all - those rosters are appalling. Anyone who thinks they look exciting needs to get a life - literally. You're cut from the same cloth as P2F - work is to earn money so you can enjoy life, it's not meant to be your life at any cost.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 17:38
  #792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
those rosters are appalling. Anyone who thinks they look exciting.......

WBF

Looking back I wonder if some of the positive comments about those rosters might have been because it's possible to misconstrue a "17-19 E USA," or a "21-23 E Canada" as being Day 1 Work, Day 2 a complete day off down route, Day 3 work back?

In case anyone who has not done long haul is still wondering in reality how it all works it will be something like this:

Day 1, late AM/ PM/evening report, for a day or evening flight out.
Day 2, morning off, then afternoon report for the start of the night flight back,
Day 3 Am - continuation of the flight back to base.

The 5 day Africa mentioned will probably be night flight out overnight Day 1/morning of day two. Day three will indeed be a day off downroute , Report late PM of day four for a night flight back, landing at base morning of day 5.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2014 at 06:55.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 19:01
  #793 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 37
Does anyone have a newish joiner SH Airbus roster they could share please?

Thanks.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 20:05
  #794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 415
Those long haul rosters would mess with my brain. But I've just done 5 earlies buzzing around Europe and that has also messed with my brain. Hmmm. Bring back the 1960's.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 20:51
  #795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
Posts: 248
I've seen several SH 320 rosters for both LGW and LHR across winter and summer and they're again appalling at times.

An example of a friend who is LHR 320 this month from Roster Buster:

Day 1-7 on night stopping every night, off 8-9, 10-11 on (day trips), 12-13 off, 14-15 on (day trips), 16-17 off, 18-19 on night stopping, 20 off, 21-27 on night stopping every night. Here take day to mean within what I can see of the roster, not date.

That's after 3 and a bit years in the company - working every weekend. I'd rather bunch my stuff together and have proper blocks off, not night stop and get my fair share of weekends off. Call me a boring weirdo for enjoying family/ friend time by all means but BA are in fact TOO stuck in the 60s in many respects. I wouldn't invest my time in a company in this way on the basis of a promise later - which without a shadow of doubt will not be delivered.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 21:03
  #796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 37
Thanks WBF

you haven't cheered me up!!!
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 21:52
  #797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 1,221
What's more, with a roster like that you have to live very close to your base. Heathrow is an expensive part of the world. On a more structured roster you could commute.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 22:04
  #798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In t'sky
Posts: 576
All,

I understand the 737 is nearly finished and it wouldn't be for entry onto that, but I was pondering more the 777/747 especially for guys with lots of hours (I have 5000+). Managing about 9 days off a month at the moment and going from earlies to lates mid duty-cycle, with at times less than 62 hours rest between 6 consecutive runs does not make for good rest planning!
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 22:16
  #799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 708
Wiggy

Surely you must be over-egging your pudding. The LH rosters given here look tranquil and serene when compared to the back2back2back2back2back2back rosters some of your colleagues seem to manage with absolutely no problem at all! (whilst commuting from far far away!)

Get a grip man!
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Old 9th Oct 2014, 05:42
  #800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
EMB-145LR

I was under the impression that BA had a better scheduling agreement? Is there any sign of improvement in the near future?
Probably worthy of a thread in itself but the answer is (IMHO): Absolutely not, if anything for many it's on course to get worse.


4468

The LH rosters given here look tranquil and serene when compared to the back2back2back2back2back2back rosters some of your colleagues seem to manage with absolutely no problem at all! (whilst commuting from far far away!)
Ahhh ...have you been reading another Forum ...

I'm pretty sure that the colleague involved must be very very very senior and certainly wouldn't be doing it with a string of East Coast 3 dayers. In any event EASA is going to put paid to most B2Bs in the not too distant future, reducing the ability to swap/trade trips to produce a more "commuter friendly" roster, something anyone planning on living outside the London Area needs to factor into their decision making.

Get a grip man!
It's a fair cop, I promise I'll try

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2014 at 07:28. Reason: Trim rambling post
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