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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 7th Oct 2014, 11:48
  #781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,364
TBH there's a hardcore of senior pilots (self included) who for reasons various bid for Christmas "out"......and in theory very little Xmas work should drop through to the junior Blindlines, though who knows what will happen this year under the new rule set.

My personal nightmare (as someone who doesn't live near LHR), is having Xmas off but having an early report on Boxing Day - hence my inclination to bid "out"!


W (belatedly)

Personally I don't find East Coast particularly demanding. But then that's what it's all about, differing personal preferences and the ability (after time) to fulfill them.
Well some East coast destinations/trips maybe and as for back to backs but anyhow just to emphasise that I wasn't making a point/having a pop about your particular roster.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Oct 2014 at 12:19.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 12:08
  #782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 79
binsleepin - Thanks a lot for that, much appreciated. Above what sector length do you get an augmented crew?
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 12:18
  #783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 836
The 737 has a very limited life left in BA and there will be no new recruits on to it. BA therefore has no need to 737 type ratings. they will take the 737 as an acceptable rating when the supply of people rated on relevant types dries up. It is all about cost these days, BA will no longer pay for a rating they don't have to.p
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 12:22
  #784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,364
Above what sector length do you get an augmented crew?
billyb...if I may, since I'm "here"

There's no absolute answer since it depends on the likes of report time and previous rest as well as sector length.

As an example LHR/ORD/LHR is one of the longer non-augmented trips, whereas LHR/MIA/LHR is on the cusp and if scheduled as a 24 hour nightstop you'll be augmented, but if it is scheduled for a 48 hour slip then you are basic crew.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Oct 2014 at 13:24.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 16:21
  #785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course
Posts: 2,104
Wiggy

TBH there's a hardcore of senior pilots (self included) who for reasons various bid for Christmas "out"......and in theory very little Xmas work should drop through to the junior Blindlines, though who knows what will happen this year under the new rule set.
Shouldn't that be NO work should drop through. When I left, all Xmas work was covered by (some Xmas Out Reserve lines) then by the Xmas Out Trip Lines. No Xmas Out work was on a Blind Line.

Has that changed?
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 16:59
  #786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eurozone
Posts: 150
Anyone heard anything yet re DEP 744? I see it's been extended to Oct 20th.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 17:01
  #787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 563
No it hasn't changed. You'll also remember that 'allocation' of a Christmas out line is governed by a lack of Christmas points, not a lack of seniority.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 17:23
  #788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
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GS-Alpha

Yes, I remember that!

What has that got to do with my point or the price of fish?

I also remember the previous 'xox' type-system for allocating Xmas trips that were not bid for, do you?
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 17:36
  #789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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TopBunk

Shouldn't that be NO work should drop through.
OK, you've caught me out - In theory and under the rules as you and I knew them I'm sure you're right. However I'm not one of the bidline/scheduling gurus and recently the rules seem to be being amended every month (basically everytime there's a hiccup in the manning). Given that I'll stick to hedging my bets in case some poor bod gets assigned this year.

Last edited by wiggy; 7th Oct 2014 at 18:01.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 19:08
  #790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 114
they will take the 737 as an acceptable rating when the supply of people rated on relevant types dries up. It is all about cost these days, BA will no longer pay for a rating they don't have to.p
Having said that with enough hours on the 737NG you get a significant discount on both the ground school and the simulator sessions required converting onto the B777. I don't know if the same applies converting from the 737NG or classic onto the B747.
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 22:25
  #791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
Skyrocket10,

Just remember you will likely be at the bottom of any long haul list for around 7yrs+. In that time, aside leave, you will have little to likely no control over days off (working every Xmas!), leave allocation or destinations. As a junior pilot in reserve band 1 you will also do more standby than the majority of the fleet for the first 5yrs. These things may seem trivial now, but give it a few years and see if you feel the same.
2/3rds of the bottom 50 or so F/Os on the 747 have only 0 or 1 Xmas point and many F/Os have only 2 or 3 points all the way to the top of the list.

Leave/DFW points acrew on a rolling 4 year basis. i.e. each week of leave you get has an associated number of points depending on its popularity (6 points to the least popular > 1 point to the most popular). Leave is allocated first to those with the most points gained over the previous 4 years and then working down the points list to those with the least points. As has already been said everybody wants different things so even with a few points you may still get some of the weeks you want in the first years.

I agree that under the Pre-August old bidding system junior guys did a lot more reserve. Since August however I have bid for reserve every month, as my points said I should, and never got it. This may be that now reserve guarantees a block of days off with no chance of allocation. So it seems to me that reserve is now a more popular bidding choice for the more senior bods. This may just be a temporary situation.

Every blind line on the 747 has a seeded trip. This means that each blind line has a reasonable trip pre allocated to it i.e a CPT, SFO, LAS, PHX. These are 4 day 3 crew trips with at least 2 days off afterwards.

There is the risk though, as you point out, that you may start on the 747 but as the fleet shrinks be directed to the Airbus 320. This has happened to a few guys on the 767 and they were rightly very p****d off. So buyer beware. They did though go from the bottom of the 767 to 100 off the bottom of the 320 list which gives them a much greater control of days off etc, and they now get to fly with mixed fleet.

The grass for a junior bod at BA is not bright green but I don't think it is as brown as you make out. Particularly if you are trying to get back to the UK or your present company is not that financially stable.

Regards
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Old 7th Oct 2014, 22:39
  #792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 563
TopBunk

That's twice in recent times you've replied rudely to me when I'm simply backing up what you've said. I'll leave you to it you rude little man.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 07:31
  #793 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
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Every blind line on the 747 has a seeded trip. This means that each blind line has a reasonable trip pre allocated to it i.e a CPT, SFO, LAS, PHX. These are 4 day 3 crew trips with at least 2 days off afterwards.
Not true, there are seeded blind lines but there are also a fair number of genuine blind lines. the seeds tend to go, not to the bottom, but to the middle level of seniority as they are too good a clashing tool to ignore. that said the destruction of BLRs being carried out under the auspices of the current BACC chairman has nullified that to some extent.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 07:40
  #794 (permalink)  
Junior trash
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Posts: 1,025
Not true, there are seeded blind lines but there are also a fair number of genuine blind lines. the seeds tend to go, not to the bottom, but to the middle level of seniority as they are too good a clashing tool to ignore. that said the destruction of BLRs being carried out under the auspices of the current BACC chairman has nullified that to some extent.
binsleepen is right. All stage 1 blind lines on the 747 are seeded. Trip lines can also go all the way to the bottom on the 747 which is another good thing for the junior. The bottom of the list is at least getting LAS/PHX/SFO blind lines if they bid for them.

If somebody gets a blank blind line on the 747 after stage 1 it's because they forgot to bid/didn't get awarded any line they bid for.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 08:47
  #795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
Juan,

As I understand it on the 747 the number of trip lines plus seeded blind lines plus reserve lines equals the effective numbers of bidders. So if you bid for everything you would get a trip line or seeded blind line unless you were allocated reseve.

As Hotel Mode says you will only get a blank blind line if you did not bid or you did not bid for enough i.e. everything you bid for was taken by someone more senior.

Regards
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 10:39
  #796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 92
2/3rds of the bottom 50 or so F/Os on the 747 have only 0 or 1 Xmas point and many F/Os have only 2 or 3 points all the way to the top of the list.
I'm not sure of exact numbers but the majority of these 50 joined in the last 2yrs.

My original figure was based on the fact that a colleague joined as a DEP on the 747 and was forced to work his first 2 Xmas, the next two he bid for reserve to avoid any assignment and was lucky enough to avoid any trips.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 12:43
  #797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
Posts: 248
Regardless of it all - those rosters are appalling. Anyone who thinks they look exciting needs to get a life - literally. You're cut from the same cloth as P2F - work is to earn money so you can enjoy life, it's not meant to be your life at any cost.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 16:38
  #798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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those rosters are appalling. Anyone who thinks they look exciting.......

WBF

Looking back I wonder if some of the positive comments about those rosters might have been because it's possible to misconstrue a "17-19 E USA," or a "21-23 E Canada" as being Day 1 Work, Day 2 a complete day off down route, Day 3 work back?

In case anyone who has not done long haul is still wondering in reality how it all works it will be something like this:

Day 1, late AM/ PM/evening report, for a day or evening flight out.
Day 2, morning off, then afternoon report for the start of the night flight back,
Day 3 Am - continuation of the flight back to base.

The 5 day Africa mentioned will probably be night flight out overnight Day 1/morning of day two. Day three will indeed be a day off downroute , Report late PM of day four for a night flight back, landing at base morning of day 5.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Oct 2014 at 05:55.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 18:01
  #799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 36
Does anyone have a newish joiner SH Airbus roster they could share please?

Thanks.
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Old 8th Oct 2014, 19:05
  #800 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 415
Those long haul rosters would mess with my brain. But I've just done 5 earlies buzzing around Europe and that has also messed with my brain. Hmmm. Bring back the 1960's.
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