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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 29th Sep 2014, 19:01
  #721 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: York
Posts: 122
Yeah... but what we're talking about here is starting FO pay. There are 34 pay points...

Is your pay, FO or Capts pay, do you have seniority etc?
bananaman2 is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 19:17
  #722 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 433
10 year F/0. Trapped in my golden handcuffs.

Money isn't everything, but... seniority is.

Biggest error of judgement I ever made joining this outfit.

Flying Clog is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 20:03
  #723 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Eurozone
Posts: 153
Flying clog;

If being trapped in golden handcuffs is difficult, think about facing a third redundancy in under 5 years and facing no job and no income after xmas followed by a pension that wouldn't support a small hamster. Then consider that your best hope is a selection process with an 80% chance of failure, even at the first stage. Things suddenly don't look too bad do they?

Put yourself in the position of the Monarch guys or even someone like myself. You could easily wind up as a Grounded clog.

I'll get me coat...
zeddb is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2014, 22:32
  #724 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 205
Starting FO pay as a year one FO (about a year after starting your upgrade from SO is a take home of around 7300. This is on a normal non-expat contract with no housing.

Seniority-based pay scale goes up gently, take home as a fresh skipper around 11500 net.

Similar number of pay points to BA.

Not that it's the only consideration, but the money in the UK isn't great.
McNugget is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 05:50
  #725 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UAE
Age: 40
Posts: 465
Do people delsy dine to supplement their salary? HMRC would love that. Are the allowances enough to cover your host bill?

Last edited by Kempus; 30th Sep 2014 at 06:00.
Kempus is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 07:30
  #726 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,442
Allowances are easily enough to cover your Host bill unless you're unfortunate enough to have 2/3 HKGs in a month in which case your wallet and liver might take a bit of a bashing.
Megaton is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 08:08
  #727 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
Yep, what Megaton said...as long as you're vaguely sensible your allowances daily rate will cover the "Host" bill for most destinations.
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 09:24
  #728 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Here
Posts: 342
Don't forget though that the cost of living in Hong Kong is astronomical, way more than the UK which itself is expensive. Unless you're slurping on noodles in Mongkok, it's definitely not cheap.
Threethirty is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 09:44
  #729 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ex-DXB
Posts: 926
Given how short they are on the 744 I'd imagine the courses would start just as soon as you could work your notice with your present employer....
My mate is a three striper on short haul at BA. Every year he's put in a bid transfer for the 747 so why is he still being denied..?

Don't forget though that the cost of living in Hong Kong is astronomical, way more than the UK which itself is expensive. Unless you're slurping on noodles in Mongkok, it's definitely not cheap.
Nonsense. Happy endings are far cheaper in HK
Craggenmore is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 09:52
  #730 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 859
My mate is a three striper on short haul at BA. Every year he's put in a bid transfer for the 747 so why is he still being denied..?
Still frozen or lacking seniority. The process of fleet transfer within BA is transparent and open.
Juan Tugoh is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 10:06
  #731 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
My mate is a three striper on short haul at BA. Every year he's put in a bid transfer for the 747 so why is he still being denied..?
What Juan said. .........OTOH the postings ("transfer") system is quite dynamic, so given the rate of change in the P&P arena at the moment it's possible your mate might get a pleasant surprise (albeit at short notice...).
wiggy is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 10:17
  #732 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 708
My mate is a three striper on short haul at BA. Every year he's put in a bid transfer for the 747 so why is he still being denied..?
IIRC

Moving from two to three stripes occurs after four years. The Engagement Freeze runs to five years. But your mate could easily have told you that? So 'every year', he's either been frozen, or he's only been bidding for 747. (they've had few vacancies recently as the number of hulls is reducing) Though he could likely have had A380, B777 or B787 had he been unfrozen AND bid for them.

Or maybe he's waiting for the A350?

Choices, choices!

The process is completely and utterly transparent. Unlike very many other outfits. Though I have just read of the possibility of 'denied bids' in 2015, due solely to BA's lack of required training capacity.

Flying Clog.

Your 'biggest error of judgement' is preferring the number in the bottom right corner of your pay slip above everything else! I hope Beijing don't come a knocking!

Last edited by 4468; 30th Sep 2014 at 11:05.
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Old 30th Sep 2014, 11:23
  #733 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ex-DXB
Posts: 926
His joining year was summer 2006 so it must be seniority.

Will new hires jump over him if needs must..?
Craggenmore is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 11:45
  #734 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 708
In any normal year, new recruits would only be accepted in a seat for which there are insufficient unfrozen internal bidders.

However, it's looking increasingly likely that 2015 may not be a normal year.
4468 is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 11:47
  #735 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: hang on let me check
Posts: 616
Quote:Your 'biggest error of judgement' is preferring the number in the bottom right corner of your pay slip above everything else! I hope Beijing don't come a knocking!
Agree with that. With all due respect to anyone out of a job or with an unpleasent base though, you will have to agree that being based in London (and before you all suggest, no I don't want to spend the only life I have commuting unless I really had to..) on a 4k net salary is not the best contract in the world.
I don't need to live in Myfair, but 4k will not go far in London or in the South East in general.

Yes there' s more to it than mere net salary, but I don't see any accomodation provided, private schooling payed, or company car and phone here right?
So please tell me, what should one be looking at if not the number at the bottom right corner?
bringbackthe80s is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2014, 11:59
  #736 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 708
I don't live in London, or the South East. BA have pilots who live in NZ and pretty much everywhere (in both directions) in between. Commuting to one's tax haven is not for me, but our rostering and remuneration (currently) allows it, for anyone who so prefers.

Individual choice and all that.

At least one of our top paid pilots is taking home 20k per month. (He doesn't live in Mayfair either!) Horses for courses!

Personally, I'm not bothered about dying rich, but I would like to enjoy the journey, because (accommodation/private schooling/company car or phone?) it won't be long for any of us, before it's gone!

Last edited by 4468; 30th Sep 2014 at 12:12.
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Old 1st Oct 2014, 05:56
  #737 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 195
One pilot in BA taking home 20k per month?

That sir, is rubbish.

Perhaps if a trainer on the top pay point in a month where profit share was paid and they had done LOTS of overtime the previous month, he could take home 12k.

Put it this way, there is perhaps only one The Director of Flight Ops, but his profit share is never explained.
Right Engine is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 06:23
  #738 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Honkytown
Posts: 205
I suppose that's the rub. Undoubtedly, if you took home 10,000+ in a month, ones gross salary in the UK is very handsome. The tax regime is so incredibly punitive, it's pretty hard to capitalise and generate wealth over and above a certain level; which, these days, is quite low.

Am I remembering rightly that the IR seemed to create/change legislation in such a way that it seemed like it was exclusively targeting flight crew commuters who were able to previously minimise their UK tax exposure whilst working for UK Airlines?
McNugget is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 09:49
  #739 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
One pilot in BA taking home 20k per month?
As has been said, ...but OK, it might just be one....

I guess if a senior pilot (top pay point, possibly a trainer) had a very very good month with payable work/back pay, and wasn't exposed to much UK tax that sort of figure might just be possible once in a blue moon but it sure as heck wouldn't be the norm.

Am I remembering rightly that the IR seemed to create/change legislation in such a way that it seemed like it was exclusively targeting flight crew commuters who were able to previously minimise their UK tax exposure whilst working for UK Airlines?
FWIW if the pilot is a non UK resident it might be worth considering there may well be "income tax" to pay on that income in the country of residence so the bottom Right Hand corner of the UK pay statement might look good but it might not tell the full story

I suspect the normal senior mortals resident in the UK might see half that if they were very lucky, on a good month....

Last edited by wiggy; 1st Oct 2014 at 10:02.
wiggy is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2014, 10:43
  #740 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,913
Anyone with the latest planned retirement figures for the next few years?

My emphasis - answer: AFAIK there aren't any plans, just a few guesses...

[Speculation] If the retirement age stays "as is" then logically you're going to see (best guess) perhaps 100+ a year retiring starting in the next couple of years. OTOH if someone decides to challenge the age 65 rule and is successful in that challenge ( and rumours are starting to circulate ) then all bets are off. [/Speculation]

That said there are signs that attrition and being nibbled to death by ducks is starting to take it's toll and there's a handful (<10) going from the more senior fleet(s) in the next month or two.
wiggy is offline  

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