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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 9th Oct 2014, 21:42
  #821 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,324
It would be useful to the pilot community if some feedback was given regarding the reasons why some of us have been unsuccesful in the recent recruiting exercise despite more than meeting the minimum criteria . Some of us have lots of experience and have been flying aircraft safely and efficiently for many years but have failed to progress past the initial hurdles. BA needs pilots and we would make good employees who would do our best for our new employer and would be a pleasure to work with if we were given the chance.
Would the head of BA pilot recruitment please post some reasons why we were turned down and what we can do to improve our chances in any further round of recruitment. It would also help if he gave an honest assessment on what is BAs upper age limit for recruitment.
tubby linton is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 02:46
  #822 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 9
Do you really think the head of BA recruitment is going to post on here? If so maybe that is one reason you didn't get in? Delusional
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 03:08
  #823 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: FL400
Posts: 398
3Greens - he already has.
Al Murdoch is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 03:40
  #824 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 121
Tubby Linton,

If you want your feedback then you are entitled to their complete data holding about yourself under the data protection act.

I believe there is a government website detailing this and it includes standard template letters.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 05:44
  #825 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517

... haven't heard about a possible SH pay cap at LHR. If that's true I believe over half the LHS peeps are well over 16 yrs plus resulting in major pay cuts. Think the proverbial may hit the fan pretty soon!
I haven't heard that either but even if it was on the cards I suspect it would not be applied retrospectively precisely for the reason you mention ( stands by for another rant about "Champagne Socialists" ).

Anyway another rumour has it the company may well be having difficulty getting the review past other (i.e. non-pilot) groups, so maybe if the proverbial does arrive it will be coming from another direction...

Last edited by wiggy; 10th Oct 2014 at 08:51.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:22
  #826 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 339
I believe that BA SH at LHR and EZY LGW are probably similar levels of flying hours. BA at LHR is probably more time in uniform than EZY from the regions.

The major factor for me that has improved my lifestyle by a factor of 10+ is the ability to control when you work. Even from the first day you walk through the door you stand a chance of getting triplines that give you the day(s) off you're after and the type of work you prefer. I quite like early there and backs, weekends off but mixed in with a few nightstops a month and that's broadly what I get. Everyone wants something different and that's what makes bidding for work so helpful. Even if you're not 100% satisfied at publication then eMaestro or iBid etc helps you to tweak it to get more of what you want.

Knowing you're going to be working next year on your friends wedding in August on a 5/3/5/4 was painfully frustrating because you knew that every annual leave day would be red. As I said before though, everyone wants something different so I'm sure that a fixed roster works perfectly for some people.

I found the flying in EZY pretty dull and the ability to see some of Europe's best cities as well as the odd day off on the beach after a bit of mid haul to be a welcome change.

Each to their own but I'd be wary of choosing one job over another simply by comparing block / duty times. I'd much rather fly 900hrs a year on the days I would prefer to work rather than 700 over days I need to be off. You don't need to be in any time at all to start getting control over your life and with rumours of large recruitment this year and next mean that you'll enjoy that control very quickly.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:38
  #827 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 1

I would also love to see a few more typical rosters for junior pilots on 747/777/767. Anyone willing to post here, or PM would be a great help.
Sky_Squire is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 12:09
  #828 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517
Recent month, juniorish Tripline holder, 777 P2 roster was something like this:

1-3 Off
4-6 Middle East
7-9 Off
10-12 Africa
13-17 Off
18-20 USA
21-23 Off
24-26 Gulf
27-28 Off
29-1 USA

So 5 reports at LHR in the month, which is fairly typical. I haven't looked to see whether he/she was above or below the CAP target.

Adjacent pilots' rosters are similar, there's the Caribbean stuff out of LGW to chuck into the mix and one junior pilot had picked a long Australia trip ( 9 day SIN/SYD/SIN) which accounts for about half a months work and would be equivalent to 3'ish shorter trips. A lot of very junior pilot's are on Blindlines so their lines will possibly have fewer trips on them at publication but the offset is that they will have blocks of Assignable days which can be filled by the company with a night's notice.

Hope that helps.

Last edited by wiggy; 10th Oct 2014 at 15:04.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 15:10
  #829 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 339
Blimey - good memory!

I did 6 months in the UK on a fixed roster before ejecting to the 'other part'. That was the dying days of the original CTC Wings course and despite not technically being an EZY UK employee the rostering agreements were identical at the time - 5/3/5/4.

A lot has changed of course in both companies since then and I completely understand the point of view of people who decide that EZY(S) is better for them.
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Old 10th Oct 2014, 17:11
  #830 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 89
How often do BA upload new assessment dates? I received an invitation this afternoon and by the time I logged on there were no slots available.

frozenpilot is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 17:28
  #831 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,264
When I went through it a few years back they called me to confirm at date. I recall this was for stage 2 (sim). There were only two stages back then. Best of luck.
Callsign Kilo is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 20:20
  #832 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
I have heard of the SH pay cap at LHR too. A little more information on it is that it will be applied just like the change to pay point 34 was. So congratulations your pay point (for arguments sake) 19 you continue as before. Sorry your pay point 18 and will not progress any higher until you transfer to LH.

Until it comes out in a official document go along the lines of more for the same or less and you won't be far wrong. I just hope that they tackle the big issues once and for all rather than this continual appeasement of inefficient departments
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 08:17
  #833 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
It's like with pay point 34. You joined on the 19th April = 24 point pay scale. You joined on the 20th = 34 point pay scale.

I don't think fairness has much to do with it but more of you can't miss what you don't have.

Life could certainly be a lot more unfair. Recent event worldwide focuses how fortunate we are.
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 12:35
  #834 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517
were that to come in to place the upshot would be a LH FO would earn more than a SH capt past a certain PP.
Which, FWIW, is precisely where we were a decade or two ago, in the days of Long Haul "Box" payments. Until the individuals involved were close to retirement age there was very little financial incentive for the very senior LH F/O's to consider moving to short haul for a command.


I just hope that they tackle the big issues once and for all rather than this continual appeasement of inefficient departments
I would hope so as well but given previous form/ experience/current rumours I rather suspect "they" won't.

Last edited by wiggy; 11th Oct 2014 at 22:28. Reason: "for a command"..
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Old 11th Oct 2014, 20:13
  #835 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
I hope not. Unless the difficult issues are taken by the scruff we will not achieve our dictated goals. I will hold my breath but I fear more frustration
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 10:13
  #836 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 683
So potentially some are trading more money in EZY
As I pointed out in this very same thread, I think that is highly debatable. In any event, you'd need a crystal ball. As far as work is concerned, what you get in Easy on day one, is what you'll likely be doing on the day you retire 40(?) years later, having driven to/from your home base 8000 times! In BA there is every likelihood of 'seeing the World' at the company's expense. A few days in the Maldives/Buenos Aires/Capetown etc.

As you say: "horses for courses."

wiggy and bex.

I have started to hear whispers that SH pilots may feel a little disappointed in a few weeks time when the SHBR hits the streets!
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 11:29
  #837 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 12:23
  #838 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,517
SHBR = "Short Haul Business Review...."

The company is looking at more ways of making short haul profitable. (or more profitable, depending on your view of the way the company's accounts are run). The fact there was going to be such a review was much trumpeted many months back, but recently management seem to have gone strangely quiet on the subject.

It's sometimes also referred to as "BOHICA"
wiggy is online now  
Old 12th Oct 2014, 13:12
  #839 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 683
4468 what happens when there's a LHBR? Though you currently feel safe in your LH life boat it'll soon catch up with you
Oh, if it gets stressful, I guess I'll just retire? (Young!)

WBF, you seem to have a real axe to grind over BA. Why is that???

As you say, "horses for courses." You obviously enjoy your daily drive to and from work, others prefer to spend a few hours in a nice restaurant next to the Parthenon/Stellenbosch/Hollywood Hills/Caribbean/Danube/Central Park/Eiffel Tower/Sydney Harbour/Pyramids - all of which (and much much more) I have done whilst at work!
People who've joined in the last few years are staring down the barrel of 12 years A320 FO, A320 command then another 8 years on A320 before getting LH - where they'll need to go back to the RHS.
No they are not. That's garbage. Though like many things in BA, it's certainly available as a choice! Also, what on earth makes you think anyone would have to spend 8 years as an A320 captain and then "they'll need to go back to the RHS." (of LH)??

Don't you understand our system?

Last edited by 4468; 12th Oct 2014 at 13:41.
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Old 12th Oct 2014, 14:55
  #840 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 141
That's nice for you 4468. Long haul certainly is a selfish lifestyle choice.

Whilst you're downroute alone again, deciding whether to go for a drink with a bunch of strangers, your kids are coming to hate you and your wife's off with the milkman.

Or do you actually believe they are happy with your lifestyle choice? Honestly.

Long haul is a short term, single mans game. Though I understand the attraction.

You seem to gloat about it. For me, the worst thing that can happen is you enjoy being away from home, and even worse your family start to enjoy you being away from home too.

The industry is littered with broken or unhappy marriages - There's a reason for that.

Each to their own.
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