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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 14th Oct 2014, 17:48
  #861 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
All very strange, I had an email alert from BA today asking me to apply for the 330/340 CCQ TO 320 ....... I'm 320/321 rated not 330/340.
So burning question is, are they still taking 320 guys as this email alert would indicate they are. Or is this another cockup on their website like the last one, which showed 320, 747-400, 757, 767, 777 and 787 but didn't allow you any further if you were only 320 rated......????
Smokie is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2014, 19:18
  #862 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Crew hotel
Posts: 34
In the 2008 and 2011 recruitment drives pretty much everyone I knew that could apply, did. This time round I can't name one person, but for understandable personal reasons... New commands, aged 35 plus, not living South or not wishing to return to the UK yet after the last industry fallout.

I just wonder where all the UK applicants will come from, given most feeder jet operators have gone. Not many experienced, current and available folk about when you exclude FR and EZY as per the job posting.
777X is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2014, 19:50
  #863 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DOVER UK
Posts: 5
Are A320 pilots being accepted by BA

I am a 1000 hr M.......ch FO. I was rejected at the first day of tests..you know. The ones to see if you are good enough to be an airline pilot..the tests must be flawed cos my flying record is flawless above average throughout and passing all my check rides to captain standard.....are BA looking for managers/corporate types who could stall an Airbus into the Atlantic?
Perhaps the HR guys at BA have gone rogue or something !
I know many guys of first class quality both personally and as pilots who have been turned down.....what ARE they looking for?
hunter ace is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2014, 20:10
  #864 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193

Bloody good question HA. You probably have just too many hours. I know of an SFO with same company with 4500 hours, most on 320, and also with an impeccable flying career who "failed" at the same hurdle. Yet CTC candidates with nothing under the belt get through.
JaxofMarlow is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2014, 20:50
  #865 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,104
There have been captains with 10,000+ hours being invited back for an interview so its not because you've got too many hours.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 21:06
  #866 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 439
I've witnessed some very strange results from BA selections amongst the F.Os where I work, good solid people get rejected and others who scrapped along the bottom standards of both technical and non technical skills were taken. I believe that the BA system is as inaccurate a method of selection as any other airline that has allowed HR to interfere.

I haven't applied my self, so have no first hand knowledge of the tests and procedures but the stuff described by colleagues doesn't seem to me to be suitable for selecting aircrew.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 21:10
  #867 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Really student88. 10k+ hr captains applying for FO role that required 200 hrs as advertised.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 21:43
  #868 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: 52N 20E
Posts: 713
So the 10000 hrs Captains were rejected first time around?
I was under the impression once you have been rejected you have to wait at Least 12 months before you can reapply.....was this the case ?
Did they have to re-sit ALL the tests plus interviews?
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 21:47
  #869 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 385
I can think of numerous skippers with 10000hrs who got in during the recruitment drive in 2005/2006.
If I can say anything about the BA selection is that it matters not who you are or where you come from. Completely above board and no favours can be pulled.
It is what it is and it's served us well over the years, like it or not.
Shaka Zulu is offline  
Old 14th Oct 2014, 22:28
  #870 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Quite possibly Shaka Zulu, but not really relevant what happened 10 years ago. I was asking if it was really true that captains with other airlines with over 10000 hours are really applying for First Officer positions with BA where the experience requirement for the role is 200 hours.

I questioned, as have others, why very good experienced pilots with other airlines are rejected at a phase designed to test aptitude to be a pilot when others with no experience get through. If BA really do need 320 pilots then a lot are being passed over. I also wonder why the hours requirement dropped from 500 hrs earlier this year to 200 hrs this time. Is the answer because there were not enough good experienced pilots first time round or is because the process is silly and unnecessarily eliminates excellent candidates. Is it really feasible that Monarch pilots (for example) are not suitable to be pilots ?

It may be that the process is not open to corruption or discrimination and is even handed but it is also not the point.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 22:36
  #871 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posts: 1,104
Really student88. 10k+ hr captains applying for FO role that required 200 hrs as advertised.
Yes, Captains from various UK airlines have been at the assessment days.

..invited to interview after successfully passing stage 1.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 22:58
  #872 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682
I first applied to BA at the end of the eighties. At that time it was obvious the company were looking to recruit pilots. In the intervening period it has become apparent that pilot ability may have fallen quite far down the list of desirable qualities. I believe some years ago BA turned down the leader of the Red Arrows for lack of flying ability!

If BA are looking for managers with a flying licence, anyone wishing to get in should prepare themselves accordingly. Anyone not wishing to play that game probably isn't what BA are looking for anyway?

Apart from meeting the minimum criteria, I very much doubt BA will be too interested in additional experience? Perhaps it comes with too much baggage?

Anyone like to discuss the merits of monitored approaches, for example?

It must also take a certain type of personality for an experienced captain to happily spend a number of years back in the RHS with no possibility of 'upgrade'? Sitting next to relatively young, relatively inexperienced captains.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 23:16
  #873 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Don't really disagree 4468. BA are looking for more than a pilot but then (rightly) so are many many others who don't decide on the strength of a computer game, a maths test and verbal reasoning whether an individual has these abilities. These tests are for assessing the aptitude of an individual to be a pilot and would be valid in assessing an individual before a company takes them on where there is no track record or evidential history of ability. For instance in the case of choosing individuals onto a cadet scheme. I wonder how many current BA pilots would actually pass these tests now - I bet not all ! In fact BA should do this to test the validity of the tests - spring it in a few with a weeks notice and see what happens.
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Old 14th Oct 2014, 23:18
  #874 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Oh, and yes, it must be a very desperate 10k hours captain who applies for a BA FO position. Maybe one who is now out of work.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 08:48
  #875 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,220
The problem is that the days of 'let's have a look around and if we like the cut of yer Jib we'll give you the job nod from the Chief Pilot' have long gone.

Day 1 is primarily sorted out by 'Da Computer' with little input from mere humans except in the group discussion exercises. Personally I do not know what score percentage these carry to the final pass/fail criteria (perhaps Lindsay could shed some light on it eh? ;-) ).

The bottom line means that irrelevant of whether you are Pontious the Pilot himself or the most charismatic man in the Fifedom if the computer say 'No' the HR mafia won't let you through to the next round.

Do I agree with such a system? Perhaps not, I was once offered a job after a walk around and a coffee but that was a long time ago in a world where lots of people knew who the others in the industry were. Perhaps understandably the HR department use the system as a filter to cut down on the workload at day 2. However the system DOES work for the company and the 'product' the system delivers is excellent. You must remember that a 10,000+ hour Captain from an airline will have the same process as a 3,000 hour military Captain and a 500 hour 'self improver'. It is a difficult juggling act.

Far from perfect but it's what the world is coming to and it seems what is necessary.

p.s. A few of my mates have failed BA interview, good guys all of them. It's just the way it happens on the day I'm afraid.

p.p.s I have it on good authority that human intervention is made in all cases and all day 1 assessments are checked over by the recruiting team before the final decision is made!

Last edited by Wirbelsturm; 15th Oct 2014 at 10:32. Reason: poor wording and possible mis-interpretation!
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2014, 11:59
  #876 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,220

Whilst any recruitment process isn't infallible there is a certain degree of commonality and fairness that must be attributed to all applicants. Hence initial processes must be irrespective of experience and hours. If you apply as DEP it's a given that you have the licence and can fly the jet. Your performance on the day is what is going to get you through the process and that is a level field for all.

Like all of these processes I have been through it provides the employer with a 'snap shot' of who you are and what you are. How well the applicant puts that across is up to them but, as we've seen in the past many times, some people are better than others at projecting what they want others to see.

As far as 'odd-balls' go I'm afraid that you will find your percentage in all walks of life. That's a product of statistics. Also it's pointless stating a list of 'look what these guys have done' people as the company has no control over how these people develop over the years. Perhaps they displayed their 'persona' better at the time of recruitment, certainly those who have gone on to do, shall we say, less savory acts have historically been proven to be able to cover up their alter lives/ego's very well.

No process will be 'perfect' but if the recruitment system puts all applicants on a level playing field of having whatever experience they have to draw from and a licence then it is up to the applicant to prove themselves capable for employment, not the employer.

Can't really get much fairer than that.

As far as those leaving I believe it is due to the amount of time to command. I wish them well and good luck. Ironically the stagnation attributed to the increase in the compulsory retirement age is coming to an end and, with the return of the 'Little Red' slots to BA and the delivery of the 350 XWB, I feel we are about to see some more growth and movement at Heathrow. Potentially increased by the decision to keep and refit some of the 744's that were due to be retired. Perhaps they jumped too soon, perhaps not, personal circumstances will always dictate peoples decisions and I have always respected that. Not everyone wants the same thing.
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2014, 12:31
  #877 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -
Posts: 16

Not often do I see something as bad as this from a poster - but this is unbelievably rude, potentially libellous, and of course I'm sure you asked your CP before posting this did you? And we're talking about your CP yes, where you've said already you work?

A quote from the chief pilot of a very large UK airline - 'if i'd know who the majority of people BA were taking from us, I'd have driven them to the process myself'.
Sawadee is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2014, 13:04
  #878 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682

You may be an Easy SFO. Yet you have an awful lot to say about BA's Direct Entry Pilot process, and BA pilots generally. (with some inaccurate understanding of how the company works) So I'll ask again, as I did a little earlier:
WBF, you seem to have a real axe to grind over BA. Why is that???
4468 is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2014, 13:16
  #879 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 109
Sawadee I'm not sure you understand the definition of libellous. This would in fact be slander, but it's not anyway because no-one has been identified at any point, not the individuals concerned or the chief pilot or even the company. it's just an opinion, relax.
Plastic787 is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2014, 13:29
  #880 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: The IMF.
Posts: 537
Heck, who cares if it is slander or libel?

I thought it was a great quote. I wish I'd thought of it myself.

Actually, I hope it is made up. It is a great line. Bravo, Sir!!
Narrow Runway is offline  

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