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Old 4th Feb 2018, 20:21
  #4361 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
Retrojet
When you say "happy to do the junior Long Haul thing"....what do you mean? What's the pros and cons?
Nobody can answer that question as BA pilots are just about to change to a method of rostering that is brand spanking new. Few, if any, have the slightest idea how it will all pan out.

As far as freeze waivers is concerned, this issue comes up from time to time. BA are obviously able to do whatever they wish with pilots during their 5 year engagement freeze. Itís bad news for those already in the company, who wish to move on. But great news for those hoping to join BA on LH, skipping completely the SH Ďgrindí!
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 22:02
  #4362 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 43
Retro: I think it's been done to death, here and elsewhere, and ultimately 4468 says it all: its a massive unknown.

Ellan: look in the comments to a previous thread on there. Not the most recent one. Can't remember which. Expect the "uproar" when the June and onwards plan is released, if my understanding is correct.

Re freezes - it really doesn't mean anything - if one was unfrozen, and one's fleet was more underestablished than first anticipated, there's nothing to stop LH DEP taking place to protect the choke point. Didn't we see that 2 years ago?
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 22:40
  #4363 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 569
Comment from NS about freeze waivers was made in the yammer thread started by initials RW. My reading between the lines is that they were going to mainly cover the recruitment requirement through FPP to short haul and freeze waiver to long haul. However, the now increased requirement means FPPs alone wonít do it, so theyíre cancelling the freeze waivers, putting FPP into short haul, and then any further requirement will just go wherever, from the DEP pool.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 06:13
  #4364 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34
Thank you guys. Found it now.

Interestingly, the Yammer post says that ďpotentiallyĒ some of those whoíve had their freezes waived and who are not yet coursed will get refrozen. So thereís still a glimmer of hope from my perpective!
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 06:20
  #4365 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
Well I for one wish you the best of luck Ellen in the interest of fairness and getting the whole process moving as it should. For those of us a little further down the list this has the potential to delay our moves away from the short haul grind for at least another year on top of the time remaining on our freeze. I’m certainly willing to serve my time but DEP’s coming in and immediately gaining access to a better lifestyle than those hundreds of places above them on the MSL really does stick in the throat, even if I’m aware of the reasons why it’s done.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 08:44
  #4366 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 43
Ellan and Rex - it sounds like we're all not too far from one another. Personally I'm secretly a little bit chuffed. I've gained 10% in seniority going into March, and the more I thought about doing a course to slot in at 90% on LH, the less appetising it became. It looks like Spring is going to be hard work at both airbus bases, but that brings opportunities for OT/RDW too.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 09:49
  #4367 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
Some FPP courses now being binned...

Without revealing the source, an FPP Cadet with a start date in March has had his course indefinitely delayed. This has come directly from the person involved.

Last edited by RexBanner; 5th Feb 2018 at 10:47. Reason: Further info
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 09:53
  #4368 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
If summer is similarly ‘hard work’, it will certainly unveil JSS in all it’s glory too! Best put that back to later in the year!

Surely not ANOTHER case of Flt Ops making promises (to network) their department can not fulfil?
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 09:54
  #4369 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 34
Iím happy for you Smokey that youíre chuffed. Iím not at all though. Iíd be slotting in around the 78% point on long haul, so I was feeling reasonably happy about that level of seniority.

As for OT and RDW, stuff that for a game of soldiers. Each to their own I guess.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:07
  #4370 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 43
Only trying to suggest a way of looking at the positives. I agree I'm in a fortunate position. Best of luck kind Sir/Ma'am.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:08
  #4371 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
Iím not either Ellen. Iím not even that close to a LH slot but it was nice to imagine that weíd be moving further up the Airbus P2 list and gaining the benefit of better bidding power etc in the meantime. Now stagnation looms again after probably a tiny bit of movement next month whilst a load of guys get onto long haul ahead of those waiting patiently.

As a commuter even the most junior 747 P2 is enjoying rosters that are immeasurably better in terms of lifestyle than those enjoyed in the right hand seat of the Airbus. (Yes I know I choose to commute and Iím aware of that, first world problems and all, but my argument still stands).

The argument that we all slot in ahead of these guys eventually once we move to LH is bogus too or at the very least only applicable for the younger guys. With those of us who are more advanced in years that time lost in the Airbus RHS is precious and also with seniority likely to be legally challenged (and probably successfully I might add) in years to come that only compounds the issue.

Sorry for venting but I fail to see the upside here. Iíll calm down shortly and get on with life though.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:13
  #4372 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Rumors of FPP courses now being binned...
Oh that doesn’t sound too good for DEPs? Or are these new courses/new white tails being binned in favour of more DEPs?
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:16
  #4373 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 274
I think it sounds very good for DEPs...

Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Rumors of FPP courses now being binned...
Any more detail on this Rex? I can see the logic... delaying a course of 6 FPPs releases a huge amount of training capacity that could be used to bring many more DEPs onto the line.

At a guess, each FPP trainee needs half a dozen sims (post type rating) and ~50 line training sectors? Against maybe 3 sims and 10 line training sectors for DEPs?

That course of 6 FPP guys who need 300 (minimum) line training sectors could be pushed and allow 30 DEPs in. That alone should take a bit of pressure off the SH fleet? Not to mention sim capacity...

Last edited by FoxChaRomeo; 5th Feb 2018 at 10:20. Reason: Clarity
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 10:35
  #4374 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 39
Ah ok that would make sense....fingers crossed!
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 11:47
  #4375 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,428
Reading across various sources I think FoxChaRomeo and others are probably right...

All the signs are that BA have very recently discovered that they need more Short Haul pilots on line PDQ....
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 12:46
  #4376 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post
Iím not either Ellen. Iím not even that close to a LH slot but it was nice to imagine that weíd be moving further up the Airbus P2 list and gaining the benefit of better bidding power etc in the meantime. Now stagnation looms again after probably a tiny bit of movement next month whilst a load of guys get onto long haul ahead of those waiting patiently.

As a commuter even the most junior 747 P2 is enjoying rosters that are immeasurably better in terms of lifestyle than those enjoyed in the right hand seat of the Airbus. (Yes I know I choose to commute and Iím aware of that, first world problems and all, but my argument still stands).

The argument that we all slot in ahead of these guys eventually once we move to LH is bogus too or at the very least only applicable for the younger guys. With those of us who are more advanced in years that time lost in the Airbus RHS is precious and also with seniority likely to be legally challenged (and probably successfully I might add) in years to come that only compounds the issue.

Sorry for venting but I fail to see the upside here. Iíll calm down shortly and get on with life though.
More ITSU, it will help you get through 8o)
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:11
  #4377 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LONDON
Posts: 10
You accepted a SH offer knowing there was a five year minimum freeze and youíre complaining.......

Not all DEPs would have taken the SH offer, if you do take - good luck but donít moan!
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:18
  #4378 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
Not everyone has the luxury of choice!
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:25
  #4379 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
Not all DEPs would have taken the SH offer
Anybody who wants to have a long career in BA would!

BA are delighted to show the door to anyone who doesn’t, and wish them good luck elsewhere. There’s certainly no shortage of applicants behind them!

Last edited by 4468; 5th Feb 2018 at 13:35.
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Old 5th Feb 2018, 13:30
  #4380 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 716
heli-wings

I’ve already said I’m perfectly willing to wait my time. What does grind my gears though is that waiting time increasing significantly because of DEPs onto the long haul fleets, all of which I met the requirements for when I joined. With the added pain of in the meantime being significantly disadvantaged in my current posting by more senior guys who should have left my fleet in accordance with their aspirations (given the normal sequence of events) being forced to remain.

That’s not exactly hard to understand. And I’m as much outraged for those who are unfrozen or had freeze waivers who are now being disadvantaged by this.

Last edited by RexBanner; 5th Feb 2018 at 13:58.
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