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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 6th Feb 2018, 20:23
  #4421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,312
BA could have had the pick of over four hundred well trained annd highly experienced Airbus pilots if they had been quicker off the mark, but they failed to engage this talent , unlike Virgin who could see the quality of what was available.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 20:48
  #4422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
There are so many things about that comment which are laughable! Virgin needed pilots because their 787s have no engines and the timing of Monarch’s demise was fortunate, nothing to do with the extreme talent on offer. Let’s hope Virgin remain so impressed when those 787s come back on line!
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 21:19
  #4423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,312
Enzo,you have missd the point. Virgin took 50 Monarch pilots because they were hugely experienced and could be online in a very short time, not just on the Airbus fleets. Whether the gig is going to be more than short term remains to be seen, but those that have gone there are hoping it is for the long term. Monarch people tend to be loyal and fully committed to their employer.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 21:28
  #4424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,496
BA could have had the pick of over four hundred well trained annd highly experienced Airbus pilots if they had been quicker off the mark,
But another point would be that IMHO that is an easy criticism to make with the benefit of hindsight.

At the time Monarch went to the wall the BA hold pool, which contained a number of 320 rated pilots, appeared to be almost stagnant and BA didn’t see the need to leave the blocks, let alone be quicker off the mark than the likes of Virgin....
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 21:32
  #4425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cheshire,england
Age: 51
Posts: 32
IAG got exactly what they wanted from Monarch.... Slots at LGW and plenty of work for their mates in Qatar. If they wanted the crews they could have made a bid for the LGW bit of Monarch. Lets face it Easy could have had Monarch crews in MAN as well but it seems they also would rather use Qatar. Isn't the free global market wonderful

Monarch is gone...lets move on.

Good luck and well done to all those getting picked up by BA, I'm sure you'll have a great time.

Now I must remember to change my profile name
spottyemm is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2018, 22:15
  #4426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
But another point would be that IMHO that is an easy criticism to make with the benefit of hindsight.

At the time Monarch went to the wall the BA hold pool, which contained a number of 320 rated pilots, appeared to be almost stagnant and BA didn’t see the need to leave the blocks, let alone be quicker off the mark than the likes of iVirgin....
IAG had been in direct negotiation to take the Gatwick operation before Monarch failed. Any sensible business would alao have had an alternative strategy to make the most of the opportunities presented by the failure and they were certainly quick enough to preposition Qatar personnel into the UK a week before the airline failed.Based on your supposition Wiggy you are saying that your management has no forward vision

Last edited by tubby linton; 6th Feb 2018 at 22:27.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 22:26
  #4427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 236
They obviously did not want the Gatwick operation, just the slots and they got exactly what they wanted. It is well documented BA can’t plan for toffee but I am sure they will have no problem filling their 320 positions.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 22:49
  #4428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,496
.Based on your supposition Wiggy you are saying that your management has no forward vision
Err, No you are saying that, I would appreciate it didn’t start putting words in my mouth.

Fair enough?

As Enzo has said they will fill the LGW positions.
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Old 6th Feb 2018, 22:55
  #4429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,312
The whole thing is irrelevant to me,but I would like to have seen the experience of some of my colleagues appreciated, and the agony of months unemployed could have been curtailed.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 07:12
  #4430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 3000 BR
Posts: 13
Can we still expect a relatively fast upgrade to command on the SH fleet? Thanks.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 07:36
  #4431 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 782
Sorry the world doesn’t work like that. Ex Monarch pilots are no more loyal, skilled or experienced than the guys/girls already in the BA holding pool.

In fact those in the pool clearly wanted to join BA having gone through the process already, not simply because their own airline failed recently. How many of the people you refer applied to BA two years ago when the rest of us did?

The pool at BA probably has between 100-200 people swimming in it, some of which for 2 years all trying to better their careers with improved T&C’s and worklife etc. Why you imply there should be a god given right to jump from one of the best employers to the next and to do it sneakily via a back door, I don’t understand. I’m sure the monarch pilots could have applied the last time BA’s recruitment was open- and while you wish they had recognised your colleagues experience immediately after Monarch went under, at least they can all apply now and leapfrog the unrated souls in their pool.

A word of advice for the BA interview to your friends- think carefully about how you’ll answer BA’s first question to you, ‘So why do you want to join BA?’
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 08:03
  #4432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 77
tmtxpress Can we still expect a relatively fast upgrade to command on the SH fleet? Thanks.
Impossible to say, as you may have gathered from this thread, you can’t second guess movement/recruitment in BA. After going very junior for 1-2 years, the SH command time has gone back this year to being 7years+ but I really wouldn’t base your decision on joining on current command times. It can change in the blink of an eye and this year was (maybe) skewed by the pension shenanigans ongoing in BA currently. If I was to take an educated guess I’d say commands will come back down to 3-4 years but that’s just a guess.

Standard advice, just get in and see what opportunities come your way.

Good luck
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 19:14
  #4433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
Commands were at around seniority 2200-300 ish. The rest of the commands down in the 3000’s are BMI protected ones. What do we have 4300 pilots now? I think junior commands were an exception and would expect with NAPS closing etc they may remain higher than we expect. Junior commands are not well rewarded financially and are really crap lifestyle wise. Each to their own but I would not join based on an assumption of quick command.
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Old 7th Feb 2018, 22:33
  #4434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 79
I know this will have been covered before but would anyone mind confirming these numbers for a BA year 1 FO are still correct?

Salary - 56,529/yr
Flight pay - 9.94/hr
Duty pay - 3.52/hr

Based on 800 hours (approx £8k) and 1500 duty hours (approx £5300), I'm assuming total salary is about £70k gross, just under £4k/month after 6% pension contributions. Is this roughly accurate?
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 00:14
  #4435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682
I think junior commands were an exception and would expect with NAPS closing etc they may remain higher than we expect. Junior commands are not well rewarded financially and are really crap lifestyle wise. Each to their own but I would not join based on an assumption of quick command.
Mmmm.

Not at all sure I agree? Number one. The effect of NAPS closure is debatable? Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity. After which many of them will undoubtedly miss out.

As far as SH commands providing a ‘crap’ lifestyle.. Two things. First, it just depends what you’re comparing it to? If it’s a ‘senior’ LH copilot’s life, then I accept, it’s sub optimal! Compare it to Easy, Jet2, Ryan...... Really?? I doubt it!

So, frankly, I personally imagine, there’s a fair chance that SH commands will remain fairly junior. Especially at LGW. Many people in BA simply hold their nose at the idea of ‘dirty’ SH!

That’s the truth. Life is (currently!) just TOO comfy on LH!

It will change.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 00:41
  #4436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 31
I notice on the holdpool update email it mentioned, “Longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating”. Does this mean Boeing only until the number of Boeing rated Pilots in the pool runs out? Or are they going to change to include those who are not Boeing rated too? Any idea on how many LH offers are likely to be made? I appreciate most offers will be for the A320.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 02:14
  #4437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Between HRG & LGW
Age: 28
Posts: 20
Will/do BA open recruitment for Boeing rated guys? Over the last few years I've only seen A320 ads!
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:45
  #4438 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 782
4468 - Have you been a Captain at Easy/Jet2/Ryan and BA? Seeing as though it has been mentioned on here that it takes about 13 years inside BA to get the SH command salary close to that of the three LoCo’s you mention, please tell me what the lifestyle is like at BA as a junior Captain that makes it worth it. Bearing in mind two of those LoCo’s have a package worth in excess of £120k a year before bonuses with a fixed roster pattern and home each night - ideal for a having a life outside of work.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:55
  #4439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 590
Many of our LH senior copilots, simply can’t stomach the idea of a SH command. They’d prefer a smaller pension, or at the very least, pushing it to the last possible opportunity.
I’m not sure ‘can’t stomach’ is the right phrase. We have simply for whatever reason, favoured the long haul lifestyle just like many have before us. It doesn’t have much to do with being senior, other than that you generally need a bit of seniority to get a move to long haul if you’re not fortunate enough to be recruited directly onto a long haul fleet. Suggesting long haul is too comfy is just incorrect. Some long haul fleets have it easier than others it is true, but to make the blanket statement that long haul is comfy in BA is wrong. Most on my fleet believe part time is the only way they’ll be able to stave off fatigue in the long term.

The top of the seniority long haul SFOs will unlikely now start bidding for short haul commands, because that would freeze them off a long haul command for five years and that’s where they really want to be. The more junior NAPS SFOs will probably just bid for short haul commands immediately (if they value their pensions over their current lifestyles - although I suspect many won’t, because they don’t totally believe they’ll ever receive the pension). It is the middle ground who will probably wait a year or so before starting to bid for short haul commands, just to see how things are looking and whether they might just squeak a long haul command in time. They are the one ones who are taking a little bit of a gamble and may end up losing out if there is a bit of a downturn in command availability.

However overall, I think all of the above means there will probably be very limited availability of new LHR commands to any BARP seniority pilots for the next five years (after 2018). There will also be several (although not all) pp16 capped LGW Captains bidding for LHR too. I suspect the only short haul command availability to BARP seniority pilots will be at LGW.
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Old 8th Feb 2018, 07:59
  #4440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 96
There are definitely some downsides of taking a shortfall command early on (even if it is available to you). I'm talking about those who achieve their command within the first 2/3 years in BA, which is historically unlikely anyway.

1. Zero or close to zero roster control (indefinitely)
2. Frequent reserve periods
3. One of the lowest command salaries in the UK for an A320 command.
4. Potentially years of stagnation as senior pilots transfer across ahead of you

If an A320 command is your thing and you're not interested in long haul it makes zero sense to leave somewhere like easyJet IMO.

If you join as an FO anytime soon you have a decent chance of achieving some lifestyle control pretty quickly based on the latest estimates for recruitment. What you then do is up to you.

As was said to me when I joined, you only HAVE to be junior once.
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