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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 14th Dec 2016, 21:41
  #3361 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
Pork chop express- agree with you. If only I could have added security to my perfect job. A imperfect world.

Sounds like you know where fleet team is and they can be your biggest friend. I have always found BA have had the attitude of "what can we do for you" during times of difficulty at home. We are big enough as a group to look after those who need to support family due to accident, illness, injury or special needs etc. Often it just needs us to put our hands up and ask.

I would echo your points. BA is hugely unfair but it's not the fault of the company. It's alright but I have told a few friends who are LHS at other airlines not to come as they will regret it in the short to medium term.
bex88 is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2016, 21:59
  #3362 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682
The really great news for those here not happy with BA, is that one look at this Terms and Endearment section, show a number of other airlines are recruiting.

I imagine those in the pool won't be too disappointed with the prospect of a few more vacancies at BA, after folks move on to a better option.
4468 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 02:56
  #3363 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,634
I'm a season ticket holder at a very substandard football club
CPFC I hope?!!
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 09:02
  #3364 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 7
Are you seriously grieving for monarch? A company that nearly went bust several times? And whilst I agree the work there may have been a lot less and "suited" your lifestyle; maybe, just maybe, the inability, or slow pace of change there has something to do with it's likely demise.
I've been in BA 17 years and I too wish I could go back to the workload on the 757 in 2000. 500 hours per year and a nice mix on LH&SH. Times change and companies adapt or die; I don't particularly like it either, but maybe in your case nostalgia is rose tinted?.
The trick in BA is to peddle on that hamster wheel for 20 odd years and not stress the crap you can't change, then hop off and enjoy your pension.(what's left of it).
3Greens is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 11:01
  #3365 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 7
I know it's hard to believe, but senior people joined at the bottom once too you know. Remember 9/11? Life as a bottom feeder wasn't a bed of roses as a new joiner then believe me.
If you don't like it that much in BA then why not rejoin your previous outfits? Or did you burn bridges there perhaps by whinging how you want this mythical dream job?
3Greens is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 11:13
  #3366 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 89
I met a chap who was on the same Ryanair induction course as an ex BA co pilot. More than one in the pipeline too, apparently, and not just retreads.
midnight cruiser is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 12:56
  #3367 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
Have to confess that JS post strikes a chord. Whilst most of this discussion has been conducted in a mature professional manner, every now and then the BA arrogance poked its head above the parapet. Are BA SOPs really so good everyone else has to admire them? If CTC trainers think they are crap maybe, just maybe, they are !

The main points made are that BA may well for many be the best gig in town but for some it is not the holly grail. This is reflected above but none of the posters are hinting that they plan to depart.
JaxofMarlow is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 13:53
  #3368 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 737
JaxofMarlow I've spent a couple of years now listening to that guy (now firmly in the ignore list) denigrate everything about this industry (this goes back well before I got to BA). When he left aviation I thought that would be the end of it and we were spared his rubbish but no, he has continued to come back to PPRuNe making more and more comments, which are purely intended to get people's backs up (and could never be construed as anything else) before I finally reacted to it.

Go back and look at some of his comments on the role of pilots and the nature of our job (and some in this very thread) before you judge the context of my remarks. Enlighteningly enough you'll find I'm far from the only person to have reacted to him and I almost feel like I've failed the test and given him the reaction he craves because of that but a forum for professional pilots should be above the kind of childish trolling that he exhibits.

Anyway, back to the topic of BA recruitment I feel.
RexBanner is online now  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 13:55
  #3369 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London
Posts: 8
Is BA the 'holy grail'? No.

Is it the best gig in the UK at the moment? Only person taking the leap can know. I am in BA, have been for 10 years. The first 18 months I wondered what I had done! After about 8 years I got used to it and sure enough, I now think it is great. (Bottom 20% of my current status)

Dont stress at what you can't change. Expect to be in the RHS for at least 10 years. Enjoy the lifestyle.

If you expect either a quick command, to be home every night, or to be anything other than a number, you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you are prepared to work hard and be happy to leave the complete mess that LHR is behind you when you leave the car park, then you will survive it.

One thing is for sure, this industry isn't what it used to be.
ATTCS armed is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 14:13
  #3370 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sand free now
Posts: 193
ATTCS..... It is the 10 years to command that causes most concern when you already have 10 years under your belt.
JaxofMarlow is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 14:58
  #3371 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 403
I think you have to work on it being 10-12 years for LHS. Last year was abnormal and a large number got early commands on SH. I don't think it will be repeated like it was because all those new commands will have a 5 year freeze. Retirements are not in any significant number and the fleet growth is fairly flat over the next 4-5 years.

The grass is greener at BA it's just our brown patches are in different places. A friend of mine is a captain at a LOCO and he is happy with his deal. Yes there are issues which are different from BA but he earns a better salary and is home each night. He decided BA was not for him and he is probably right. As for me I have learnt the skill of ignorant bliss and I feel fortunate to fly for BA with all its rights and wrongs. If you take it back to basics the job that pays fairly/well or "market rate" and continues to do so is a good one.
bex88 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 16:33
  #3372 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: London
Posts: 17
Jax - just to let you know I do plan to depart. Will be rejoining my old outfit in the spring. No complaints at all about BA. It was my choice to give up my command and go to BA. It was a gamble and I haven't enjoyed it. Have no grumbles whatsoever about anyone in the company or gripes about SOPs and the like. It's BA's train set so who am I to question it? Over and out from me.

Edited to add that no one I met in the company has been arrogant - contrary to some posts on here. Training was top notch, very fair and relaxed.

Last edited by tommytailwind; 15th Dec 2016 at 16:50.
tommytailwind is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 18:52
  #3373 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682

Great post!

I am genuinely pleased that folks can come and take a look at what BA is like ON THE INSIDE! Then go back to their previous employer. My best friend in life did exactly that, and I understand his reasons for returning to the big orange! Everyone's happy! Even the person able to move into his vacancy!

Lot's of comments I could address here, but hey the warm beer, open fire and (non flying!!) friends are calling!

One thing I won't accept though is this. People paid by a customer to teach new joiners the customer's SOPs are unprofessional if they are calling their customer's SOPs, rubbish! They are also speaking from a position of ignorance if they've never used those same procedures in anger.

There's no more wrong with BA's SOP's than are wrong with anyone else's.

That unprofessional and ignorant behaviour definitely needs feeding back to the customer. So thanks for that.

Aviation is a cyclical business. Seven years traditionally from peak to peak. Trough to trough. (With other factors in the meantime!) Make sure you're standing by a good chair when the music stops!!!!
4468 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 20:55
  #3374 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: uk
Age: 51
Posts: 90
Everyone is looking for different things and BA may not be for everyone, I am ex military and ex loco captain / training captain and TRE and personally I enjoy BA, I joined 2 years ago at 46 and am a commuter on the minibus fleet, I get one of my top 10 choices every month and get on average 12 days a month at home (in EDI) that said I do bid for llong tours.

I believe that you could pilots in a pub with free beer and free lap dancing (or whatever our female colleagues would prefer!) and as a workforce we would complain as we want lager not bitter and blondes not brunettes...., it's human nature to always think the grass is greener elsewhere.

As an aside I was one of the first to go through CTC, on one occasion the instruction was so bad we (my sim partner and I) stopped the sim ( wrong technique for an EFATO being taught combined with an extremely aggressive attitude for the instructor) he had also spent most of the time slagging off BA and their SOPs so some people may have a bit of a chip on their shoulder.
Icanseeclearly is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 20:59
  #3375 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 33
Posts: 231
I'm glad I'm not the only one that experienced this! I was starting to wonder whether it was just me! I reported it to BA at the time and they said they would speak to CTC. I never heard anything back in that regard.
EMB-145LR is online now  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 13:14
  #3376 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: On the side of the pitch!
Age: 43
Posts: 494
For me, joined 6 years ago on the 320, far and away best airline I've worked for in terms of work/life balance (worked at two others), now occupy the left seat, have done for 18 months, and still enjoying it! Europe in the summer is fabulous! But then again I'm a positive chap! I do fly with "moaners", who generally just have a negative view on life. BA is NOT a nirvana, how could it be? Nowhere is, but it is better than anywhere else, with so much choice on offer! It's a career job.

As an aside, I'm on blindlines as I'm 88% from the bottom of the C320 list, at stage 1, had the last 3 weekends off, do bugger all flying (50 hours a month). Swapping is easy, as long as you've something to offer the other person.
SinBin is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 16:11
  #3377 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Centre of Universe
Posts: 294
How does it work with Easyjet Trainers at CTC then. Surely they must be ex Easyjet TRE's.
Twiglet1 is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 16:44
  #3378 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 286
They are generally self-employed consultants as I understand it. Certainly a few guys at my airline are "BA checked" and teach BA pilots at CTC. I flew with one a few weeks ago who said they are also required to go through a standards check with a BA trainer before being let loose at CTC, presumably to avoid situations like EMB describes.

Icanseecearly: Good for you, I would have walked out too - far too many people are putting up with sub-standard instruction at CTC.
average-punter is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 20:34
  #3379 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 188
I see it's the senior ones who are jumping on here questioning how anyone could be underwhelmed by life at the bottom in BA; the self same who enjoy FS pensions, pp24, high seniority, etc etc... Almost indignant.
Been in two years, BARP, PP34.

Never missed an important family occasion, earn good money, rarely fly at night, home almost every evening and I'm on a run of 11 weekends off in a row.

Not sure about sounding indignant, but I am certainly happier with my life now than I was before joining BA!
Stocious is offline  
Old 17th Dec 2016, 08:43
  #3380 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 19
I have to echo Stocious. Been in just over 2 years, right place right time and now I'm LHS Airbus. Home pretty much every night and being paid 30% more than my previous LHS role. Can't complain, with at least two weekends off a month.
clearofconflict is offline  

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