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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 28th Feb 2018, 10:58
  #4561 (permalink)  
VJW
 
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Yeah never said I was king of the hold pool- what does that even mean? Assuming BA haven’t called me because of what I write on here is you assuming something with little or no evidence.

Like it or not- what I wrote is currently fairly accurate to the situation for anyone in the pool who is neither A320 rated or Boeing rated. As that’s what the official message from BA said (and I quoted).

People are always best guessing on here so don’t get your knickers in a twist because I tried to spell out the obvious. I really wonder what type FR666 is currently flying :/
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:02
  #4562 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VJW
Flyer2007 don't you read the emails from BA? I know things change with BA all the time, however 3 weeks ago they said, 'The longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating.

Initial forecasting shows that the majority of offers for 2018 will be to the A320 with the majority being based at LGW. While we have a number of you in the holdpool who have an A320 rating, the numbers that are being predicted mean we will need more ROT A320 Pilots than there are of you in the holdpool so we will shortly be launching a new A320 recruit on type campaign.'

It's pretty obvious. As you are probably DHC8 rated, you need to be at the top of the DEP holdpool to have a chance at getting an A320 offer if you're not rated on it. Saab0409 recently mentioned he got an A320 offer and he wasn't A320 rated, and clearly not Boeing rated otherwise he'd have been offered a LH position.

I'm Boeing rating and passed Sept 2016 and I know loads of other Boeing rated pilots who passed after me. I've not received any calls, so it's safe to assume the LH DEP calls for us Boeing swimmers hasn't got into June 2016 yet (based on fr666 passing in May).

People above have said they have (or know people who have) been offered A320 positions based on already being rated and they passed their selection after me.

My worry for you is this part of their email, 'We have some shorthaul offers for those of you that aren’t rated' has already taken place. I believe they'll be able to get more A320 people in during this current drive before you get to the top of 'this' part of the list. Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
VJW thanks for your reply and apologies if my post came across as uninformed. I have indeed read the emails from BA. Like you say, “for the moment”, hence I was asking the question, as it implies this may change.

I know of someone who is Boeing, but non rated from a June sim and has been offered a LH course, so I trust they’re past May now.

My Dash rating has long expired and indeed in the same boat as you.

As there have been no numbers given regarding LH requirements I felt it was a valid question to get an indication whether they needed more than just Boeing rated for LH. Cheers 😊
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:08
  #4563 (permalink)  
VJW
 
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Until a new email is sent, we’d all be guessing as to the answer to that. Even if someone wrote on here they were ATR rated and had just been offered A380 at BA doesn’t mean that actually happened. I don’t personally expect a SH offer what so ever and re LH the last email mentions that the majority this year will be SH offers. I take that to mean the LH offers probably won’t get to me in Sept 2016. Hopefully for you, you passed before I did.

While I don’t think we’ve been treated amazingly well, BA to their credit have always kept us up to date and nothing has happened without us being notified first (I refer most recently when they told us A320 DEP was opening again- and it opened that evening). Why they wouldn’t email us before taking non Boeing rated people onto LH just sounds unlikely, because as I said, we’ve always been kept up to date with their plans for 1-2 years already.

Last edited by VJW; 28th Feb 2018 at 11:29.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:40
  #4564 (permalink)  
 
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I think we've all read the updates from Lucy/BA. If you're anything like me you read, and re-read it trying to glean anything from the bits between the lines.

The 'plan' appears to change as often as the weather, so to come on here and ask for the latest news and rumours, like Flyer2007 did, seems a fair thing to do.

One question though VJW, if you're so anti-BA these days, and have gone elsewhere with the LCC's; why are you so interested?
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:42
  #4565 (permalink)  
VJW
 
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When have you seen me ask for updates on here? I’ve simply given my opinions at times where I thought I had something to add.

People need to stop implying that people cannot or shouldn’t be interested in any thread on a forum. That’s not how forums or democracy generally work.

I worked as hard as everyone else to pass and can vent frustrations if I want, even after admitting my descision not to join. Just click the ignore button I won’t mind.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 13:35
  #4566 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VJW
Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
Hardly inspiring is it.

Hope is all swimmers have, don’t take that away from people when you know yourself how quickly things can change. Look at the conference call information versus what happened a few weeks later. With a new DFO and a big problem of crewing to solve anything could happen. I know it’s ‘easy’ for you to say with all the opportunities you’ve bragged about on here, but some us of have all our eggs in one basket and don’t need people like you cancelling hope.

Whilst you (quote yourself on here) can’t wait to say no to them on the phone spare a though for the people who need to say yes.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 13:53
  #4567 (permalink)  
VJW
 
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Yeah it’s not my fault. I don’t need to come on here to be inspiring. I have a state of mind based purely on emails received by BA for 18 months.

I spare a thought for all of us, we shouldn’t have to through all of that process to not be called. From reading the most recent email, there are going to be some in the pool who won’t get a call. I’ve said a number of times of course I’m aware things can easily change, but doesn’t anyone else get that impression at the moment?

Again I can give my opinion, you don’t have to take any notice, but my opinion is what it is. I didn’t have much hope when they first emailed us saying no jobs expected in 2018 so I went and got myself ONE other option and am in the process of taking it as I still don’t think BA will call me. There are better jobs out there than where I am currently and I have hedged my bets in looking after my family long term.

I’ve only ever made comments on what I think- this is what a forum is for.

Last edited by VJW; 28th Feb 2018 at 14:09.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 14:16
  #4568 (permalink)  
 
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With a new DFO and a big problem of crewing to solve anything could happen.
..

Welcome (possibly) to BA and the “BA way” ....the emphasised bit is why I tried to stop offering anything approximating advice a few months back.......

Wonder what the latest “anything can happen” will be”...just seen the latest LHR TAF and the usual missive that arrived at about the same time about “ minding how you go” on the way to work...but make sure you get here....but make sure you don’t bust 90 minutes.......

Seriously, hope it all works out for the swimmers...now where did I put the uniform pullover oh hang on, we have a heavy...

Belated edit to add. With regard to some of the glowing endorsements about rostering - having had to time to spare this evening I have been browsing elsewhere and noticed there is suddenly a lot of heated traffic on company yammer about how bad roster stability actually is for the v junior on some fleets...I think the gripe is whilst Blindlines and Triplines are solid there are new joiners experiencing a high frequency of reserve lines vs. what was promised by the recruiting team (specifically recruiting team saying about one a year, people actually working four in a year), high incidence of TASS, etc, and other complaints.. .any of the newish joiners here care to comment?

Last edited by wiggy; 28th Feb 2018 at 19:21.
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 20:57
  #4569 (permalink)  
 
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Wiggy, any idea what the latest chatter is for those of us non-type rated, and currently enjoying time on aircraft more "exotic" than the usual line up or Airbus and Boeing?
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Old 28th Feb 2018, 23:15
  #4570 (permalink)  
 
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high frequency of reserve lines vs. what was promised by the recruiting team (specifically recruiting team saying one a year, people working four in a year)
Likely connected to the increasing numbers of pilots who are no longer able to be assigned Reserve!

Combined with the ludicrous Reserve Banding system!
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 08:13
  #4571 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4468
Likely connected to the increasing numbers of pilots who are no longer able to be assigned Reserve!

Combined with the ludicrous Reserve Banding system!
"No longer able to be assigned reserve". Would you mind explaining that please? Reserve is currently one of the least attractive prospects for me as a long haul hold pool swimmer. I would go almost as far as to say it could make the difference between me accepting an offer or not. That being said, not being in the company I probably don't fully understand the system. Some of my junior friends seem to do a lot of reserve and I don't fancy 4 21 day periods a year for the next 10 years where I have so little advance notice of what I am working.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 09:12
  #4572 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly on LH, under current rules, Right to Request part timers can never do Reserve, even if they want to! Under current rules Aspirational part time workers will hardly ever do Reserve either. Both the of these situations are due to the fact that you need a 28 day ‘window’ of availability on your line of work to fit a Reserve block in. RTR never have such a window. With leave and DFW, Aspirational bidders hardly ever have ‘availability’ either.

Combined with the unjustifiable system of Reserve Banding. On LH in particular, with the increasing uptake of PTWK, it can’t be long before we see every junior full time worker doing Reserve pretty much whenever they have a 28 day window? (Though I’ve a vague recollection you can’t be assigned Reserve in consecutive months??)

On HSB, you have to reach the crew car park in 2 hours, so if you live close to Heathrow, it might suit you? If you’re planning to commute, it certainly won’t. You will also lose control of any earned allowances. You may be busy. You may not work at all.

On the up side, it generally, though not always, starts with a 7 day block off.

Enjoy!

Oh, and of course, a few have to be on Reserve over Xmas and New Year! Much less popular even than being assigned a trip. At least with a trip, six weeks out, you can make family plans etc! I did notice on my fleet, there were a surprisingly high number of pilots who felt too ill to work Xmas Day!

Which is a bit of a shame!

Last edited by 4468; 1st Mar 2018 at 09:29.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 09:41
  #4573 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Love_joy
Wiggy, any idea what the latest chatter is for those of us non-type rated, and currently enjoying time on aircraft more "exotic" than the usual line up or Airbus and Boeing?
Sorry, no idea but one of the better informed might be able to help out.

As for the questions/comments about vulnerability to reserve, it is as 4468 describes: the various part time contracts have removed eligibility/vulnerability for a lot of people and as a consequence has increased the loading on the full timers...yes, it is certainly possible to be awarded or assigned a Long Haul reserve block (28days) as an aspirational part timer, especially if you are on 72%, but it doesn’t happen that often for those on the 58% deal. One partial solution might have been shorter reserve blocks and I thought there was some talk of that being introduced along with JSS but that hasn’t materialised.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 10:14
  #4574 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly on LH, under current rules, Right to Request part timers can never do Reserve, even if they want to!
Are you ‘certain’ about that?
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 10:25
  #4575 (permalink)  
 
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RTR part timers definitely do Reserve. It’s all in BLRs. There is a form to bid for dates otherwise you can be assigned. HTH
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 10:40
  #4576 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4468
Combined with the unjustifiable system of Reserve Banding. On LH in particular, with the increasing uptake of PTWK, it can’t be long before we see every junior full time worker doing Reserve pretty much whenever they have a 28 day window? (Though I’ve a vague recollection you can’t be assigned Reserve in consecutive months??)

But what you described are exactly why joining as a direct entry pilot onto a longhaul fleet is not the be-all.

Joining as a DEP LH you are joining on a much more senior fleet where everyone joining the fleet, apart from a few new entry pilots recruited after you onto the fleet, will be more senior then yourself. Even pilots moving from SH to LH will be more senior then yourself. Blindlines, or under jss getting maximum optimalisation, are all you will be doing for up to 5 years (unless significant amounts of new recruits join behind you on the fleet).

On SH as a new entrent you should be able to climb the fleet seniority list by around 15 to 20% a year were as on LH as a new entrant because of the above you will be hovering at the bottom for the best part of the first 5 years. That is the beauty of a seniority based system were it doesn’t really matter if new pilots go directly onto LH bypassing SH. Once that SH pilot moves to LH (s)he will get the higher roster satisfaction.
(Before flying hours are mentioned as a right to bypass SH. On my SH joiners course the least experienced pilot had 3000 hours)

Also the SH pilots moving to LH will have done around 5 years in the company and thus get more points for a reserve period then yourself. Joining the fleet, you start with the fleet average reserve points, but will have to do more often a reserve period then the pilots 5 years and 10 years in the company. On SH you will find just a few pilots longer in the company then 5/10 years so most are in the same band resulting in having to do less reserves then the new entry LH pilot. One might argue this banding system is not fair but most join on SH and will have done a fair few reserve periods on SH which are much harder then a LH reserve.

Holiday and Xmas are based on a point system and are the same for SH and LH. You start off with 0 so run a fair chance of not getting your first 2 Xmasses off, after which you should be able to. Holidays are the same. If you take a peak week summer school holiday as your week off you get less points then a for a week in the middle of November. The more points you have the more likely you will get the holiday over a periond you bit for.

Last edited by Jumbo2; 1st Mar 2018 at 11:00.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 11:20
  #4577 (permalink)  
 
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Hey, what's with all this fretting about silly little aspects of your job when you're blind to the looming threat of job displacement through Artifical Intelligence. Just enjoy flying planes to earn a salary. Whilst you still can. FFS, stop bitching like a load of spoilt pansies and wake up! The world 'out there' is far more interesting and good fun.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 12:50
  #4578 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you for the valuable contribution to this thread. Amazing insight and right on subject. Think you maybe looking for the Daily Mail.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 13:21
  #4579 (permalink)  
 
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Hope is all swimmers have, don’t take that away from people when you know yourself how quickly things can change
They can change quickly, however VJW is correct in saying that things may not turn out well. They haven’t on a number of occasions. I’m not sure what BA recruitment do regarding hold pool extension periods (went from 12 to 18 months when I was swimming back in 2012) however when it was over it was over. Reapply and start again was the only option. BA will never have a shortage in applicants, the fossett never seems to dry up.

Regardless, always best to have a plan B in aviation.
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Old 1st Mar 2018, 15:50
  #4580 (permalink)  
 
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If they do let everyone in the hold pool drown, what an absolute waste of time and money that will have been.

I’m hoping that with their current focus on costs they will recognise that expiring the hold pool would be squandering all the money spent on interviews/sims.
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