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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:34
  #4561 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: England
Posts: 32
Very interested to know more information on the Forces pilot question...
banterbus is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:40
  #4562 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,574
Iíll leave it with this: Iíve had to sort out a couple of issues out in the last few months where there has been an assumption made by some on board that two rings meant straight out of flying school. The irony of it was in both cases the problem makers themselves had only been in the company 5 minutes.........
wiggy is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 18:35
  #4563 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Room 506
Posts: 68
I quite like my two stripes. Peoples expectations are automatically lowered, and I usually don't disappoint
Tricia Takanawa is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 18:51
  #4564 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by Doppio View Post
To clarify some points that were raised;

- Yes I did bid for shorthaul command every year from day one; all I got was Equipment Freeze.
- Treated with respect and professionalism at BA? All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience. A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
- Industry leading Pension? I would have had to retire at 65 on £8000,- per year annuity. And that’s with maximum contributions into BARP 2.0
- BA wants JSS over Bidline; that’s all you need to know.
- 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.
- Final salary of plus £200k? Not according to the 34 year pay scale that the majority of DEP’s will never reach the top of. It’s more like £168k (excl flight pay), if you are still full time that is after 33 years of doing 900hrs p/a.
- Planning your life with a fixed roster? How about doing 21 day reserve periods several times per year...
- And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…

I could go on of course, but fear to damage the delicate sensibilities of those who’s only justification seems to be that they’ve had it worse somewhere else before... What can I say, I’ve had it better.
No delicate sensibilities damaged here although some of your points do require challenging with some facts. Where I agree with you I'm not shy about stating it.

1. It's been said in posts above but who on earth cares how many stripes you have. We're all adults here, you would hope, and if someone treats you differently because you have 2 stripes then tell them to poke off! They are clearly idiots. I'm assuming that is your problem, and not the physical absence of a third stripe. For if that is your problem I fear you may be beyond help...

2. Your point about A380 Fo's not being able to land is misleading. It was a training capacity issue, not a trust issue as has already been pointed out.

3. I share your scepticism over JSS but ultimately until it comes in, no one definitively knows what its going to be like. We're all speculating. I do, however, mourn the loss of bidline like many of my colleagues.

4. It's uncommon to do 5 long haul trips a month, certainly on my fleet. It's only happened to me once. Ive never done 6, and I've never done more than 3 on a month when I've had leave. Next month on a blind line with leave I have 2 trips.

5. I agree the 34 point pay scale sucks and it must be one of the main reasons that people think twice before signing on the line.

6. You might do 3 reserve periods a year to begin with. But that won't go on forever. If you are a long haul DEP it will go on longer than short haul, and that is one of the main advantages of taking a short haul DEP job - a more rapidly advancing "on fleet" seniority. The first couple of years aren't great for reserve and you'll probably do it over Christmas at least once. I didn't do a single reserve for my last two years on the airbus. I've done 1 reserve since I went to long haul 18 months ago.

7. The pensions changes are well documented elsewhere, but it's disingenuous to infer, as your post reads to me, that BARP is some recent development. NAPS closed to new joiners a LONG time ago now, much as MANY final salary schemes at other companies did. The new BARP is an improvement on what has been offered for many years now. Quoting annuity rates is a waste of time. You'd have to be nuts to buy an annuity today.

I'm glad you're happy at Ryanair and I do think the decision about whether to leave a loco command to join BA has become much more balanced in recent years. You can't escape the reality though, and please don't gloss over it, that Ryanair is hardly a happy place to work for many of it's "employees" (self employed, contractors, delete as appropriate). Sure, you get paid more as a Ryanair Captain than as a BA DEP. Shock horror. I would question whether Ryanair is a particularly good employer compared to BA when you look beyond the financial side of things. That's borne out by the statistics in terms of the sheer volume of resignations from Ryanair over a typical year versus resignations from BA. I don't need to be BA's biggest cheerleader to point that out either.

Ultimately BA is far from perfect. Financially you will be better off taking a command at RYR or EZY, no contest. If you're reading this and that is what motivates you then forget BA. Lets not pretend though that doing so is without its downsides. It's a lifetime of multiple sector, high intensity short haul flying with all the stresses that come along with that. Working for a company, in Ryanair's case, who don't even try to hide their contempt for the pilot workforce.

I won't apologise for making the case for working for BA. There's plenty wrong with it, but it's still the best flying job I've ever had and when I'm cycling down the beach or sat by the pool with a cold beer my previous loco job seems a MILLION miles away. Oh and by the way, I'll happily join the picket line to protect our terms and conditions, just as soon as we are given the chance.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 19:43
  #4565 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 10
Well said NM.

Finally some balanced truth!
rustynut is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 20:18
  #4566 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 134
Well said Northern Monkey, couldn't agree more with what you wrote. Also I second what you said as a DEP joining Shorthaul, you will climb the fleet seniority ladder much quicker then if you join as a DEP Longhaul (were you could actually go downwards on the fleet seniority ladder if more senior pilots move from SH to LH). Climbing the fleet seniority ladder means an improved lifestyle.
Jumbo2 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2018, 09:09
  #4567 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 609
If I had to guess, I would say Doppio was on the 747 where 5 trips a month is the norm. However, the 787 does indeed look like 4 trips is normal. So balance yes, but both posters speak the truth. I have just compared March rosters.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2018, 13:03
  #4568 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 25
I stand corrected on the landing policy for A380 FO's based solely on inexperience.

Last edited by Doppio; 27th Feb 2018 at 21:39. Reason: (grammar)
Doppio is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2018, 14:51
  #4569 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: the moon
Age: 31
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by TSAT View Post
To bring this back to the hold pool and calls being made, can anyone here confirm whether offers have actually gone out to people in the pool who are ntr? I'm NTR, been in the pool since May 2016 and am getting the feeling that my file is lost in some dusty corner of the office!

Any updates from people who've actually seen things moving along would be appreciated.
I passed assessment May 2016, NTR, was offered 747 last week. Good luck!
fr666 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2018, 15:36
  #4570 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: 160 to 5
Posts: 7
Very true Doppio, only did 11 landings in the aircraft last year and 485hrs. A far cry from my previous fleet.
Wakarider is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2018, 20:38
  #4571 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
Posts: 18
DEP onto the 380 from EZY just under two years ago.

Like many posters said, it's not perfect. There is the obvious concern that things will carry on getting worse as Mr Cruz keeps on cutting costs. But I definitely don't regret it.

Bad things:
- poor IT and incredibly confusing internal processes e.g. Where do the bid results get published? In a place called "Forums". Makes sense.
- fairly unharmonious relationship between cabin crew and flight deck (EZY was great for that)
- difficult life planning unless you are senior
- nobody answers their phones. No point leaving messages either. It's chronic. And that's when you have figured out who you are supposed to be calling in the first place.


Good things:
- most skippers seem to recognise I'm an experienced pilot and don't look at me as a "2-striper"
- overall very friendly flight deck (usual small percentage of undesirables)
- decent hotels, mostly in city centers
- easy to swap trips, which makes being junior easier than you'd think
- overall, Ops people who treat you as an adult (one of the worse aspects of EZY). When they answer the phone.
- many opportunities to take part in non-flying projects (flight safety, technical, training, corporate relations, etc)

Would I feel the same on SH? Probably not.

I feel much less tired than at EZY. Yes the night flights are tough, but the cumulative fatigue at EZY was much worse. My wife has noticed a big difference in my mood during days off or holidays. But then I sleep well in the bunk, which some people find nigh impossible.

As a family, we've very much enjoyed going on holiday in Club seats in LA, Cape Town and Miami. Also great fun taking the wife on a trip with me and can't wait for my kid to be old enough to do the same.

The vast majority of FOs I know who switched to BA SH say they would never go back. And I don't believe any of the recent 380 DE FOs are having second thoughts.

I think it's very much become a SH vs LH question. There's not a lot between EZY and BA for SH. Just more money sooner at EZY, but that probably evens out over a career. I don't think it would make sense for an EZY skipper to move to BA if he/she has not intention of going LH. Part-time is the only option after 10+ years of SH at either outfit. It's just too knackering.

My two cents!
followthegreens is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 08:10
  #4572 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by fr666 View Post
I passed assessment May 2016, NTR, was offered 747 last week. Good luck!
Congrats! When you say NTR, were you completely NTR? Or current on another Boeing? Cheers! 😊
Flyer2007 is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 08:58
  #4573 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 794
Flyer2007 don't you read the emails from BA? I know things change with BA all the time, however 3 weeks ago they said, 'The longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating.

Initial forecasting shows that the majority of offers for 2018 will be to the A320 with the majority being based at LGW. While we have a number of you in the holdpool who have an A320 rating, the numbers that are being predicted mean we will need more ROT A320 Pilots than there are of you in the holdpool so we will shortly be launching a new A320 recruit on type campaign.'

It's pretty obvious. As you are probably DHC8 rated, you need to be at the top of the DEP holdpool to have a chance at getting an A320 offer if you're not rated on it. Saab0409 recently mentioned he got an A320 offer and he wasn't A320 rated, and clearly not Boeing rated otherwise he'd have been offered a LH position.

I'm Boeing rating and passed Sept 2016 and I know loads of other Boeing rated pilots who passed after me. I've not received any calls, so it's safe to assume the LH DEP calls for us Boeing swimmers hasn't got into June 2016 yet (based on fr666 passing in May).

People above have said they have (or know people who have) been offered A320 positions based on already being rated and they passed their selection after me.

My worry for you is this part of their email, 'We have some shorthaul offers for those of you that aren’t rated' has already taken place. I believe they'll be able to get more A320 people in during this current drive before you get to the top of 'this' part of the list. Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
VJW is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 10:36
  #4574 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
Flyer2007 don't you read the emails from BA? I know things change with BA all the time, however 3 weeks ago they said, 'The longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating.

Initial forecasting shows that the majority of offers for 2018 will be to the A320 with the majority being based at LGW. While we have a number of you in the holdpool who have an A320 rating, the numbers that are being predicted mean we will need more ROT A320 Pilots than there are of you in the holdpool so we will shortly be launching a new A320 recruit on type campaign.'

It's pretty obvious. As you are probably DHC8 rated, you need to be at the top of the DEP holdpool to have a chance at getting an A320 offer if you're not rated on it. Saab0409 recently mentioned he got an A320 offer and he wasn't A320 rated, and clearly not Boeing rated otherwise he'd have been offered a LH position.

I'm Boeing rating and passed Sept 2016 and I know loads of other Boeing rated pilots who passed after me. I've not received any calls, so it's safe to assume the LH DEP calls for us Boeing swimmers hasn't got into June 2016 yet (based on fr666 passing in May).

People above have said they have (or know people who have) been offered A320 positions based on already being rated and they passed their selection after me.

My worry for you is this part of their email, 'We have some shorthaul offers for those of you that arenít rated' has already taken place. I believe they'll be able to get more A320 people in during this current drive before you get to the top of 'this' part of the list. Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
Since when are you king of the hold pool?

BA do change their requirement from time to time so excuse the poor guy for asking.

Massive conclusions jumped to here with little or no information more than anyone else.

Perhaps BA havenít called because of your outrageous posts on this thread? If by your previous posts BA isnít for you and youíve taken another offer then leave the rest of us alone and stop posting on here?
efarto is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 10:58
  #4575 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 794
Yeah never said I was king of the hold pool- what does that even mean? Assuming BA havenít called me because of what I write on here is you assuming something with little or no evidence.

Like it or not- what I wrote is currently fairly accurate to the situation for anyone in the pool who is neither A320 rated or Boeing rated. As thatís what the official message from BA said (and I quoted).

People are always best guessing on here so donít get your knickers in a twist because I tried to spell out the obvious. I really wonder what type FR666 is currently flying :/
VJW is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:02
  #4576 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
Flyer2007 don't you read the emails from BA? I know things change with BA all the time, however 3 weeks ago they said, 'The longhaul offers for the moment are being made to those with a current Boeing rating.

Initial forecasting shows that the majority of offers for 2018 will be to the A320 with the majority being based at LGW. While we have a number of you in the holdpool who have an A320 rating, the numbers that are being predicted mean we will need more ROT A320 Pilots than there are of you in the holdpool so we will shortly be launching a new A320 recruit on type campaign.'

It's pretty obvious. As you are probably DHC8 rated, you need to be at the top of the DEP holdpool to have a chance at getting an A320 offer if you're not rated on it. Saab0409 recently mentioned he got an A320 offer and he wasn't A320 rated, and clearly not Boeing rated otherwise he'd have been offered a LH position.

I'm Boeing rating and passed Sept 2016 and I know loads of other Boeing rated pilots who passed after me. I've not received any calls, so it's safe to assume the LH DEP calls for us Boeing swimmers hasn't got into June 2016 yet (based on fr666 passing in May).

People above have said they have (or know people who have) been offered A320 positions based on already being rated and they passed their selection after me.

My worry for you is this part of their email, 'We have some shorthaul offers for those of you that arenít rated' has already taken place. I believe they'll be able to get more A320 people in during this current drive before you get to the top of 'this' part of the list. Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
VJW thanks for your reply and apologies if my post came across as uninformed. I have indeed read the emails from BA. Like you say, ďfor the momentĒ, hence I was asking the question, as it implies this may change.

I know of someone who is Boeing, but non rated from a June sim and has been offered a LH course, so I trust theyíre past May now.

My Dash rating has long expired and indeed in the same boat as you.

As there have been no numbers given regarding LH requirements I felt it was a valid question to get an indication whether they needed more than just Boeing rated for LH. Cheers 😊
Flyer2007 is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:08
  #4577 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 794
Until a new email is sent, weíd all be guessing as to the answer to that. Even if someone wrote on here they were ATR rated and had just been offered A380 at BA doesnít mean that actually happened. I donít personally expect a SH offer what so ever and re LH the last email mentions that the majority this year will be SH offers. I take that to mean the LH offers probably wonít get to me in Sept 2016. Hopefully for you, you passed before I did.

While I donít think weíve been treated amazingly well, BA to their credit have always kept us up to date and nothing has happened without us being notified first (I refer most recently when they told us A320 DEP was opening again- and it opened that evening). Why they wouldnít email us before taking non Boeing rated people onto LH just sounds unlikely, because as I said, weíve always been kept up to date with their plans for 1-2 years already.

Last edited by VJW; 28th Feb 2018 at 11:29.
VJW is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:40
  #4578 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Here, there, everywhere
Posts: 251
I think we've all read the updates from Lucy/BA. If you're anything like me you read, and re-read it trying to glean anything from the bits between the lines.

The 'plan' appears to change as often as the weather, so to come on here and ask for the latest news and rumours, like Flyer2007 did, seems a fair thing to do.

One question though VJW, if you're so anti-BA these days, and have gone elsewhere with the LCC's; why are you so interested?
Love_joy is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 11:42
  #4579 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 794
When have you seen me ask for updates on here? Iíve simply given my opinions at times where I thought I had something to add.

People need to stop implying that people cannot or shouldnít be interested in any thread on a forum. Thatís not how forums or democracy generally work.

I worked as hard as everyone else to pass and can vent frustrations if I want, even after admitting my descision not to join. Just click the ignore button I wonít mind.
VJW is online now  
Old 28th Feb 2018, 13:35
  #4580 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: uk
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by VJW View Post
Hope I'm wrong for you, but judging by their emails I wouldn't have much hope.
Hardly inspiring is it.

Hope is all swimmers have, don’t take that away from people when you know yourself how quickly things can change. Look at the conference call information versus what happened a few weeks later. With a new DFO and a big problem of crewing to solve anything could happen. I know it’s ‘easy’ for you to say with all the opportunities you’ve bragged about on here, but some us of have all our eggs in one basket and don’t need people like you cancelling hope.

Whilst you (quote yourself on here) can’t wait to say no to them on the phone spare a though for the people who need to say yes.
efarto is offline  

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