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Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 24th Mar 2017, 14:10
  #3501 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 266
and with FACOff who thought that 70% were non bus rated.

RexBanner - your source is seemingly well placed, so I shall hang on every word and hold you to it!
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Old 25th Mar 2017, 09:29
  #3502 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
The 767's retire late 2018. In early 2018 there are quite a few 787's delivered.
If the crewing levels are correct now then surely that would mean there has to be more guys taken on next year.
Someone needs to fly the new aircraft. Or after the shuffle the seats left on the A320.
That's not taking into consideration the retirements, part time requests, sickness etc
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 21:53
  #3503 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 191
BA, having decided earlier this year that they would not be granting any more part time contracts have, through some wiley BALPA negotiation, reversed their decision. This means that probably after the summer season finishes, pilots will start to work anything down to approx 50% of their current flying commitment. This will obviously have some positive impact on the required recruitment numbers. But I wouldn't expect much momentum until it is agreed and enforced.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 20:56
  #3504 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 58
Are we thinking part time is due to over-crewing or just a well negotiated deal by Balpa? Could be a double-edged sword.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 10:44
  #3505 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
Anyone got the answer to the above by Mikealpha
Surely as has been mentioned it's not over crewed, just crewed correctly.... at the moment.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 15:45
  #3506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 342
Lots of full time guys and gals have been asking for part time for severals years but BA have refused due to the old part time contracts giving rise to large peaks and troughs in work coverage, which made crewing difficult. Also the large recruitment numbers over the last few years meant it was difficult to let people go part time as this would require even more recruitment.

The new BA/BALPA agreement allows for a new part time roster schedule that smooths out the peaks and troughs. This will allow all those who wanted the various part time options to get them and this should allow for more recruitment. So good news.
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 22:24
  #3507 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
This sounds like good news for recruitment
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 15:42
  #3508 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/British_Airways

Although, I don't like the sound of that. Not sure who updates pilot jobs network though.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 15:52
  #3509 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
That says the same thing my BA hold pool email update did on 16/1/17.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 12:36
  #3510 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
Very well said

First time I have gazed over this forum , what a very insightful and honest view on BA


Originally Posted by Amigo South View Post
An interesting thread - to which I'd like to add my view.

Joining BA is obviously no longer the clear cut decision that it used to be. Our managements eagerness to join the race to the bottom (and BALPA's willingness to help them) means that there is little left to differentiate BA from other airlines. To put it very bluntly, if you have an easy drive to work, like who you work with and enjoy what type of flying you do then don't bother coming here unless it's as a LH DEP and even that needs some consideration.

Sadly BA is very much 2 different airlines, LH and SH. On LH you'll get to fly a heavy jet around the world and will probably get 14-15 full days off at home every month. You'll have limited exposure to LHR and the M25. Not a bad job but God only knows what bidding system will be in use 18 months from now and as previously stated you will not be able to guarantee a single day off in any month unless you have leave. If you never want a SH command, be prepared to spend 20 years in the RHS.

SH is another matter altogether. You'll fly 800+ hours but will also spend as much time again on duty. Expect 10-11 days off a month with mostly only 1 or 2 days off at a time. There are 2,3,4 and 5 day tours - the majority with 3 sectors on the first and last day. Mid-tour 4 sector days with 3 aircraft changes and 4 sets of cabin crew are not unheard of. There are long airside turn rounds of up to 3.30hrs, spent in dirty, windowless airside canteens. The impact of EASA FTLs later in the year is a huge worry - 5/6/5 anyone? Also do not under estimate the frustration factor of working out of LHR. 20 minutes to get from the car park to T5, 20 minutes to taxy out, 10-15 minutes holding to get back in and then a long wait for the bus to take you back to the car park after work (up to 45 minutes after 10.30pm).

More importantly, BA is not a nice/happy place to work and the working/socialising relationship with cabin crew is unlike any other airline. There is still a great deal of bitterness and hatred from a number of CC (this was evident before the dispute too). Thankfully on SH there is a nice mix of EF, ex-BMI and MF so every now again you'll have an enjoyable night stop. There are some great guys/girls on the FD but be prepared for those with limited emotional intelligence who will moan about their crystallised APS pension and their property portfolio, whilst you're wondering how you'll ever get on the property ladder!

You'll never get a consensus from BA pilots about whether or not to join because our opinions very much depend on our fleet/ pay scale/ pension. However, it does not take a genius to realise that a senior pp24 744 Captain will have a very different lifestyle to a junior pp1 or 2 Airbus F/O and that lifestyle and level of remuneration has gone - no matter how much BA/BALPA promise jam tomorrow.

Finally, BA at the moment is all about the money. Everything boils down to cost and there is no care for the employees or the value that they can add to the company. If I had to make my choice again in today's climate I would not join - and I was a DEP on to LH!
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 18:26
  #3511 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 766
Where did you hear that?
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 19:07
  #3512 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
Accurate

I have never really read this thread , whilst flicking through I found this post
A very interesting honest opinion on BA , obviously not the golden handshake anymore
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 21:47
  #3513 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
I'd like to take issue with a couple of points here

1) You'll fly 800hrs+ on SH. Completely incorrect as far as my experience goes. 600 hours in the last twelve calendar months. Others I speak to have averaged around 700*

2) Spending over three and a half hours on a turnaround? Never done it, not once. The maximum I've had is maybe an hour to an hour and a half. Maybe there are duties with such a turnaround hidden somewhere but they're absolutely not frequent.

3) The relationship with cabin crew. Again I found this to be a complete over exaggeration, yes there are some pissed off guys and gals but the amount of times they cause you a problem is minimal. You don't get to form much of a relationship with them as they are always swapping aircraft at Heathrow but that's the nature of the beast, aside from that I've noticed no real difference in the relationship between Flightdeck and cabin crew to the other large airlines I've worked for. There is some genuine banter to be had out there on the line, be in no doubt.

4) My sample size is admittedly limited (as usually I'm on public transport to the local hotels but have done a few reserve periods now with a hire car in the car park) but, again, not once have I had to wait 45 minutes. I think the longest wait has been 5-10 minutes. Yes with some late finishes too.

I've said it before but there are some gross over exaggerations on PPRuNe. It seems to be think of the worst case scenario you can imagine (which I admit sometimes does occur) and make out like it is something that happens all the time (it doesn't). You really have to take the postings on here with a large grain of salt. Amigo South's post was written almost a year before I joined and being honest, I can't vouch for what he's said as regards day to day life here. There are some grains of truth in there but if you're someone who sweats the small stuff and spends their life being overwhelmingly negative then no doubt that post will chime with you. If you take it as it comes you'll see that the things mentioned happen infrequently enough for you not to be bothered by them.

I'm sat writing this on eight straight days off by the way. It's not leave and it's not a DFW. Yes I've done a couple of 6 on 2 off 6 ons in the past, but you take the rough with the smooth and - more importantly - try getting eight days off at Ryanair or easyJet as part of your normal pattern. I've got another seven day block of days off next month too, again it's not holiday. This isn't a willy waving contest either, it's just to demonstrate and highlight the level of roster control you can get at BA (yes even on short-haul and even when you're 80% away from the top of the list).

*Flight time as a measure of workload in BA is notoriously inaccurate.

Last edited by RexBanner; 5th Apr 2017 at 22:40.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 23:29
  #3514 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by applecrumble View Post
Rumour (and it's purely that) that I heard was that some people were told they are no longer in the pool. Can anyone confirm that or otherwise?

This could have been the very last people to gain entry to the pool, essentially won't be required?

Surely that's not true?
Any idea when he/she joined (and was supposedly dismissed from) the pool?

Frankly I can't think of a scenario where this would make any sense for BA. Even if the swimmers at the back really are unlikely to be needed, surely better to keep them in the pool anyway in case requirements change (which as we know, they frequently do).

As recruitment have said to me themselves, they've spent a lot of time and money getting us through assessment, so scrapping us (at any stage) does no-one any favours.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 04:49
  #3515 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by FACoff View Post
Any idea when he/she joined (and was supposedly dismissed from) the pool?

Frankly I can't think of a scenario where this would make any sense for BA. Even if the swimmers at the back really are unlikely to be needed, surely better to keep them in the pool anyway in case requirements change (which as we know, they frequently do).

As recruitment have said to me themselves, they've spent a lot of time and money getting us through assessment, so scrapping us (at any stage) does no-one any favours.
I agree, it makes no sense to me either. Probs BS, or lost in translation.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 07:07
  #3516 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
1) You'll fly 800hrs+ on SH. Completely incorrect as far as my experience goes. 600 hours in the last twelve calendar months. Others I speak to have averaged around 700*
..and OTOH on Longhaul we've got more than a few folks ringing the 900 hour bell.

Problem is Rex is trying square what you've experienced with the fact on another forum some folk are regularly pushing how awful SH rosters and workload is under EASA rules. Certainly at the moment isn't it also fair to say that one's position on the seniority list can make a tremendous difference to your perceptions of BA? I also know there are ways of being say 80% off the top low hours but there's often a trade off involved that some people possibly wouldn't want to entertain (e.g the unpredictability of being time assignable as a blind line holder or just the total unpredictability of reserve).

I do happen to know from conversation there are still some very unhappy SH (and LH) bunnies out there, so maybe on average workload is somewhere between yours and what amigo south wrote a while back

That aside I do agree with a lot of your other points, and frame of mind and expectation comes into it.

Last edited by wiggy; 6th Apr 2017 at 07:43.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 07:39
  #3517 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 703
Thing is Wiggy I just don't recognise this whole argument that shorthaul is awful. Yes there are bits that leave a bit to be desired but nowhere nowadays is a utopia. I'm wondering how much is being written by people who've lost touch with reality. We get plenty of leave compared to other places so if you get creative, virtually every other month you can have a nice block of time off.

If you want to measure SH against LH and take the point of view that because SH isn't as good as LH then that makes SH awful then as far as I'm concerned that's just a state of mind. If you're like me and you're staring down the barrel of another four years of it, then you begin to see the positives and there are quite a few. You just never hear of them on here because that's not the agenda on display. I've worked for a few airlines now and I can categorically say that this is the best overall. You can get some significant time off but that might mean you work harder on your days on duty. I don't see a problem with that.

(Maybe part of my way of thinking is that I've seen the worst this industry has to offer, which is freezing your arse off out in the arse end of Europe flying with grizzled CRM free captains on multiple 12hr+ four sector days off a 05:00AM report on repeat with no coffee provided, a single mouldy sandwich for crewfood and being paid peanuts.)

Last edited by RexBanner; 6th Apr 2017 at 07:50.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 07:50
  #3518 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 357
Towards the top of the list and if you can avoid repeated earlies, shorthaul isn't too bad. Maximum credit coupled with minimum days at work on lates only is how to bid. However, you need to be towards the top of the list to assure that.

The change to EASA scheduling means there are some nasty early rotations out there. I think this particular gem has gone now but from an early report, OSL-LHR-KEF-LHR anyone? Legal perhaps but not sensible through the disaster area that is LHR with its holding and waiting for parking/catering/tugs/you-name-it. I have heard of delights of Corfu and back followed by a European nightstop too so they're still out there.

Lates were largely untouched as the changes from CAA to EASA scheduling were pretty minimal for them.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 07:50
  #3519 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,309
I think that's all fair comment Rex..

I think currently there is a lot of angst about how the company are picking off items of T&Cs and quite where T&Cs will be in 5-10 years time, which is perhaps not helping the general frame of mind of many in the current workforce.

I would certainly agree there are a few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves"...and I have my concerns looking forward but yes, there are worse places to work.
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Old 6th Apr 2017, 08:17
  #3520 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 40
Posts: 111
Well written RexBanner, as a fellow SH'er who joined from a different Northern UK airline. I fully agree with your writeup. I do more hours then yourself (around 800ish), but they are the result of a lot of high credit trips/days to maximise my days off.
If I have to compare my life with the other airline I used to work for before I joined. BA is a walk in the park, so much control about ones roster, the roster stability which is just amazing (0 roster changes since joining compared to 92% roster disruption a month (early to late or visa versa a day before the duty resulting in not being able to plan anything on a working day) at the previous when I worked there) and being treated like a professional instead of a cost.

But having said that I guess everybody is different. At my previous lot people living local to the bases thought it was the best job they could wish for, working hard in the summer but only doing standbys in the winter. I for one prefer the BA system were the work is distributed more evenly over the year, you do a block of 21 reserve/stby days a year and you control your own rooster which as you say rather often results in big blocks of off days (sometimes with the help of a PBW) on which you can explore the world with staff travel. At the same time you always get as Wiggy says, a (luckily only a very) few who seem to generate a lot of "negative waves" like Amigo South who aren't happy about things, however there is a reason they joined and to often the reason is they weren't happy about their previous airline either.

Last edited by Jumbo2; 6th Apr 2017 at 08:33.
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