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Old 9th Apr 2017, 19:35
  #3541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
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I think you would get Gatwick easily enough. 12 captains were moved for the summer from LHR because LGW were short.

The grass is not greener though. Yes three sectors not four and yes we night stop but Heathrow is like swimming against the tide at times. Even if you got command quickly you would still have taken a big pay cut from easy.
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Old 9th Apr 2017, 22:07
  #3542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Originally Posted by VJW View Post
With that in mind, having applied long haul, being a SH captain already for LoCo and having said I'd accept a SH offer from BA; how likely is it to get LGW as a base? LHR is a bit of a drive. For LH that drive would be fine 5 times a month, but for SH it'd be tougher to leave my 45 min drive LHS position I'm currently in.
If you bid for it, you'll likely get it fairly promptly. Not many people want to come down to LGW but there are lots of FOs at LGW who want to go up to LHR (more fool them).
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 18:50
  #3543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
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Some of the new rule sets under EASA are not safe
Mix - come on then spill the beans which rules. Sister airlines for Thomson e.g. Belgium/Scandi/Germany have been working to EU FTL for ages and EASA is only a slight re-jig of this. Its not just a Brit thing is it............
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 23:32
  #3544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Mr. Angry - 2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg. Until you actually operate a sector like this through the night, having had min rest downroute, you can't appreciate how unsafe it is. You will say show me the smoking hole then. My opinion is, sadly, it's only a matter of time.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 18:06
  #3545 (permalink)  
 
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2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg
Which trip are you referring to?
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 18:32
  #3546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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At the risk of thread drift, I was replying to Mr Angrys question about Thomson working patterns. I believe LGW-PHU is a 2 man of this duration.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 19:11
  #3547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
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Originally Posted by Stocious View Post
If you bid for it, you'll likely get it fairly promptly. Not many people want to come down to LGW but there are lots of FOs at LGW who want to go up to LHR (more fool them).
Unlikely. Gatwick command got to 3600 in the 2016 bid, 2017 back at 2300 and this coming bid the FPPs are eligible and eager.

I'm 3700-3900 and below a lot of guys keen for LHS at LGW.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 19:28
  #3548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
At the risk of thread drift, I was replying to Mr Angrys question about Thomson working patterns. I believe LGW-PHU is a 2 man of this duration.
This trip is a 3 man job at TOM.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 21:31
  #3549 (permalink)  
 
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recall_checked. Not since EASA FTL's were introduced.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 13:46
  #3550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
At the risk of thread drift, I was replying to Mr Angrys question about Thomson working patterns. I believe LGW-PHU is a 2 man of this duration.
Where is PHU?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 14:02
  #3551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Think he means Phuket (HKT). And TOM do use 3 pilots on this route, regardless if EASA says you only need 2.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 17:36
  #3552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Mix
2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg.
Which depending on the time of day was what CAP371 allowed certainly 11hrs back of the clock without the factorisation of sectors which only CAP371 had since Flight Engineers went...
The allowable FDP in the afternoon under EASA is more restrictive than CAP371.
So it just boils down to the factorisation issue in pure FDP calcs and the fact under CAP you immediately came unacclimatised where EASA is a more practical gradual adaptation.
Don't get me wrong the trip you highlighted must be pretty tough but that's the limits your sister airlines have worked to for years n years (or near to)

There are plenty of postings with Thomson is the best gig in the UK so it cant all be that bad?
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 10:12
  #3553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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My apologies I meant HKT and apologies again for thread drift!

Recall_checked, from a current 767 pilot in TOM who operates the route "LGW - HKT is rostered as a 2 man trip."

Mr Angry from Purley you're telling a few fibs I'm afraid. CAP371 on return leg doesn't deal with time of day, it deals in acclimatised or unacclimatised. In an unacclimatised state (which my source tells me applies to this leg back from HKT), CAP371 certainly didn't allow 11 hours for long haul operations. CAP371 made you treat a sector over 7 hours as multi sector. For a flight the length of Thailand to U.K. You're looking at 9h45 as the 2 man limit in CAP371 compared to 11 hours under EASA. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story...nice try though

And to answer your point about Thomson not being all bad. That's true but all airlines are engaged in a race to the bottom to facilitate corporate greed masquerading as "competition". So it's all relative. My buddy in Thomson did a Cape Verde recently. No overnights there any more due EASA. 5:20 out, 5:40 back. Doesnt take a genius to work out that CAP371 is far less fatiguing than the rules we operate to under our European masters.

Last edited by The Mixmaster; 16th Apr 2017 at 17:57.
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 18:27
  #3554 (permalink)  

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This thread has drifted a long way from BA DEP!
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 18:32
  #3555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yep sorry about that! To bring it back to BA, I'm delighted to hear from friends of mine on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 21:29
  #3556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
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I really do hope the long haul side of BA doesn't change to drastically in the coming years !
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 07:54
  #3557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Silence

Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.

Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?

Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 08:34
  #3558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
.... on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops
They do ..but I'd stand by from some (possibly robust) input from some short haul colleagues about how quickly things can change....

Love_joy

Last time I looked the 2018 plan for airframes etc was as before..."manpower" are about to wade through the rejigging of the existing part time pilots contracts and then will have their hands full with bids from those current full timers wanting to move onto a part time contract ..I suspect until that is done (which is going to take several months) you won't get much if anything in the way of a meaningful update....just MHO.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 08:41
  #3559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
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Hi Lovejoy I know it's frustrating and you can't do anything else but don't worry about it. The plan at the moment seems to change with the wind, at my management forum just under a month ago indications were that the FPP's were about to start and some form of external recruitment would reopen at the end of the summer. Now in the space of a couple of weeks, unpaid leave has been offered and I gather some FPP's have had their courses put back into early next year? (All rumour until it's confirmed). So as I said, what's fact now will be last week's plan very swiftly so who knows? I would definitely be surprised though if there is any significant direct entry long haul recruitment next year though as there are large numbers of people now unfrozen and for the coming few years. (Unless of course it really kicks off again and the company can use the training capacity excuse to bypass seniority).
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 10:02
  #3560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Love_joy View Post
Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.

Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?

Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?

Unfortunately, BA and other airlines have been doing this sort of thing for years.

I know many people who have passed BA selection but never actually joined due to changing operational requirements and a finite hold pool time.

Best of luck.
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