BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,643
Likes: 0
From: UK
Mix
Which depending on the time of day was what CAP371 allowed certainly 11hrs back of the clock without the factorisation of sectors which only CAP371 had since Flight Engineers went...
The allowable FDP in the afternoon under EASA is more restrictive than CAP371.
So it just boils down to the factorisation issue in pure FDP calcs and the fact under CAP you immediately came unacclimatised where EASA is a more practical gradual adaptation.
Don't get me wrong the trip you highlighted must be pretty tough but that's the limits your sister airlines have worked to for years n years (or near to)
There are plenty of postings with Thomson is the best gig in the UK so it cant all be that bad?
2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg.
The allowable FDP in the afternoon under EASA is more restrictive than CAP371.
So it just boils down to the factorisation issue in pure FDP calcs and the fact under CAP you immediately came unacclimatised where EASA is a more practical gradual adaptation.
Don't get me wrong the trip you highlighted must be pretty tough but that's the limits your sister airlines have worked to for years n years (or near to)
There are plenty of postings with Thomson is the best gig in the UK so it cant all be that bad?
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
My apologies I meant HKT and apologies again for thread drift!
Recall_checked, from a current 767 pilot in TOM who operates the route "LGW - HKT is rostered as a 2 man trip."
Mr Angry from Purley you're telling a few fibs I'm afraid. CAP371 on return leg doesn't deal with time of day, it deals in acclimatised or unacclimatised. In an unacclimatised state (which my source tells me applies to this leg back from HKT), CAP371 certainly didn't allow 11 hours for long haul operations. CAP371 made you treat a sector over 7 hours as multi sector. For a flight the length of Thailand to U.K. You're looking at 9h45 as the 2 man limit in CAP371 compared to 11 hours under EASA. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story...nice try though
And to answer your point about Thomson not being all bad. That's true but all airlines are engaged in a race to the bottom to facilitate corporate greed masquerading as "competition". So it's all relative. My buddy in Thomson did a Cape Verde recently. No overnights there any more due EASA. 5:20 out, 5:40 back. Doesnt take a genius to work out that CAP371 is far less fatiguing than the rules we operate to under our European masters.
Recall_checked, from a current 767 pilot in TOM who operates the route "LGW - HKT is rostered as a 2 man trip."
Mr Angry from Purley you're telling a few fibs I'm afraid. CAP371 on return leg doesn't deal with time of day, it deals in acclimatised or unacclimatised. In an unacclimatised state (which my source tells me applies to this leg back from HKT), CAP371 certainly didn't allow 11 hours for long haul operations. CAP371 made you treat a sector over 7 hours as multi sector. For a flight the length of Thailand to U.K. You're looking at 9h45 as the 2 man limit in CAP371 compared to 11 hours under EASA. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story...nice try though
And to answer your point about Thomson not being all bad. That's true but all airlines are engaged in a race to the bottom to facilitate corporate greed masquerading as "competition". So it's all relative. My buddy in Thomson did a Cape Verde recently. No overnights there any more due EASA. 5:20 out, 5:40 back. Doesnt take a genius to work out that CAP371 is far less fatiguing than the rules we operate to under our European masters.
Last edited by The Mixmaster; 16th April 2017 at 16:57.
Joined: Jul 2006
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 218
Likes: 15
From: Barcelona
Yep sorry about that! To bring it back to BA, I'm delighted to hear from friends of mine on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Here, there, everywhere
Silence
Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.
Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?
Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?
Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
Love_joy
Last time I looked the 2018 plan for airframes etc was as before..."manpower" are about to wade through the rejigging of the existing part time pilots contracts and then will have their hands full with bids from those current full timers wanting to move onto a part time contract ..I suspect until that is done (which is going to take several months) you won't get much if anything in the way of a meaningful update....just MHO.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Hi Lovejoy I know it's frustrating and you can't do anything else but don't worry about it. The plan at the moment seems to change with the wind, at my management forum just under a month ago indications were that the FPP's were about to start and some form of external recruitment would reopen at the end of the summer. Now in the space of a couple of weeks, unpaid leave has been offered and I gather some FPP's have had their courses put back into early next year? (All rumour until it's confirmed). So as I said, what's fact now will be last week's plan very swiftly so who knows? I would definitely be surprised though if there is any significant direct entry long haul recruitment next year though as there are large numbers of people now unfrozen and for the coming few years. (Unless of course it really kicks off again and the company can use the training capacity excuse to bypass seniority).
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 128
Likes: 6
From: UK
Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.
Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?
Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?
Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
Unfortunately, BA and other airlines have been doing this sort of thing for years.
I know many people who have passed BA selection but never actually joined due to changing operational requirements and a finite hold pool time.
Best of luck.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Here, there, everywhere
Thanks everyone.
If I'm honest I'm sitting pretty in my current seat, and reasonably happy where I am, so there is no urgency about it.
It's just the rest of life that's continuing to move along... I need to seriously consider where I am to place my family in the short & long term as we have other needs to address.
My own gut feeling is that we won't hear anything till Q4 this year, with courses to run Q1 & Q2 next year. I base this purely on here say, rumour and wishful thinking.
I've known colleagues to swim & expire up to 4 times before finally getting lucky.
Recruitment is brutal.
If I'm honest I'm sitting pretty in my current seat, and reasonably happy where I am, so there is no urgency about it.
It's just the rest of life that's continuing to move along... I need to seriously consider where I am to place my family in the short & long term as we have other needs to address.
My own gut feeling is that we won't hear anything till Q4 this year, with courses to run Q1 & Q2 next year. I base this purely on here say, rumour and wishful thinking.
I've known colleagues to swim & expire up to 4 times before finally getting lucky.
Recruitment is brutal.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Under the table
Well aware of those figures, but he wasn't talking about LHS. He was asking about initial postings after hold pool...
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Here, there, everywhere
It won't be the bottom of the list they are targeting if true. And I don't believe for one second that it is. Growth on the horizon, upcoming retirements and part-time requests to start accepting. They will need bods.
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,729
Likes: 104
From: The Winchester
current rumours is volountary redundancy for BA pilots!
My mate is at the bottom of the seniority and hasn't mentioned it haha
Personally I'd be suprised to see vouluntary redundancies being offered before the company has seen the demand for part time working under the revised arrangements.
Edit to add: Just seen elsewhere one of the Union reps saying it's almost certainly a rumour.
Last edited by wiggy; 19th April 2017 at 09:05.