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Old 14th Apr 2017, 12:46
  #3541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: s england
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
At the risk of thread drift, I was replying to Mr Angrys question about Thomson working patterns. I believe LGW-PHU is a 2 man of this duration.
Where is PHU?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 13:02
  #3542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Up north
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Think he means Phuket (HKT). And TOM do use 3 pilots on this route, regardless if EASA says you only need 2.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 16:36
  #3543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
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Mix
2 man long haul ops allow for 13 hour FDP and 11 hours back of the clock on return leg.
Which depending on the time of day was what CAP371 allowed certainly 11hrs back of the clock without the factorisation of sectors which only CAP371 had since Flight Engineers went...
The allowable FDP in the afternoon under EASA is more restrictive than CAP371.
So it just boils down to the factorisation issue in pure FDP calcs and the fact under CAP you immediately came unacclimatised where EASA is a more practical gradual adaptation.
Don't get me wrong the trip you highlighted must be pretty tough but that's the limits your sister airlines have worked to for years n years (or near to)

There are plenty of postings with Thomson is the best gig in the UK so it cant all be that bad?
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 09:12
  #3544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Barcelona
Age: 38
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My apologies I meant HKT and apologies again for thread drift!

Recall_checked, from a current 767 pilot in TOM who operates the route "LGW - HKT is rostered as a 2 man trip."

Mr Angry from Purley you're telling a few fibs I'm afraid. CAP371 on return leg doesn't deal with time of day, it deals in acclimatised or unacclimatised. In an unacclimatised state (which my source tells me applies to this leg back from HKT), CAP371 certainly didn't allow 11 hours for long haul operations. CAP371 made you treat a sector over 7 hours as multi sector. For a flight the length of Thailand to U.K. You're looking at 9h45 as the 2 man limit in CAP371 compared to 11 hours under EASA. Don't let facts get in the way of a good story...nice try though

And to answer your point about Thomson not being all bad. That's true but all airlines are engaged in a race to the bottom to facilitate corporate greed masquerading as "competition". So it's all relative. My buddy in Thomson did a Cape Verde recently. No overnights there any more due EASA. 5:20 out, 5:40 back. Doesnt take a genius to work out that CAP371 is far less fatiguing than the rules we operate to under our European masters.

Last edited by The Mixmaster; 16th Apr 2017 at 16:57.
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 17:27
  #3545 (permalink)  

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This thread has drifted a long way from BA DEP!
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 17:32
  #3546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Yep sorry about that! To bring it back to BA, I'm delighted to hear from friends of mine on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops
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Old 15th Apr 2017, 20:29
  #3547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
I really do hope the long haul side of BA doesn't change to drastically in the coming years !
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 06:54
  #3548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Here, there, everywhere
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Silence

Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.

Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?

Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 07:34
  #3549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Originally Posted by The Mixmaster View Post
.... on long haul there that they have sensible, BALPA negotiated FTL limits on 2 man long haul ops
They do ..but I'd stand by from some (possibly robust) input from some short haul colleagues about how quickly things can change....

Love_joy

Last time I looked the 2018 plan for airframes etc was as before..."manpower" are about to wade through the rejigging of the existing part time pilots contracts and then will have their hands full with bids from those current full timers wanting to move onto a part time contract ..I suspect until that is done (which is going to take several months) you won't get much if anything in the way of a meaningful update....just MHO.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 07:41
  #3550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Hi Lovejoy I know it's frustrating and you can't do anything else but don't worry about it. The plan at the moment seems to change with the wind, at my management forum just under a month ago indications were that the FPP's were about to start and some form of external recruitment would reopen at the end of the summer. Now in the space of a couple of weeks, unpaid leave has been offered and I gather some FPP's have had their courses put back into early next year? (All rumour until it's confirmed). So as I said, what's fact now will be last week's plan very swiftly so who knows? I would definitely be surprised though if there is any significant direct entry long haul recruitment next year though as there are large numbers of people now unfrozen and for the coming few years. (Unless of course it really kicks off again and the company can use the training capacity excuse to bypass seniority).
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 09:02
  #3551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by Love_joy View Post
Coming full circle again and back to BA Recruitment; those of us in the hold pool are finding the silence deafening at the moment, since the last update in January.

Although the last update did explain nothing likely this year, does anyone happen to know when non FPP offers might start to be made again?

Is there any semblance of a plan yet for 2018?

Unfortunately, BA and other airlines have been doing this sort of thing for years.

I know many people who have passed BA selection but never actually joined due to changing operational requirements and a finite hold pool time.

Best of luck.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 12:31
  #3552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Thanks everyone.

If I'm honest I'm sitting pretty in my current seat, and reasonably happy where I am, so there is no urgency about it.

It's just the rest of life that's continuing to move along... I need to seriously consider where I am to place my family in the short & long term as we have other needs to address.

My own gut feeling is that we won't hear anything till Q4 this year, with courses to run Q1 & Q2 next year. I base this purely on here say, rumour and wishful thinking.

I've known colleagues to swim & expire up to 4 times before finally getting lucky.

Recruitment is brutal.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 21:27
  #3553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
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Originally Posted by EF1S View Post
Unlikely. Gatwick command got to 3600 in the 2016 bid, 2017 back at 2300 and this coming bid the FPPs are eligible and eager.

I'm 3700-3900 and below a lot of guys keen for LHS at LGW.
Well aware of those figures, but he wasn't talking about LHS. He was asking about initial postings after hold pool...
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 20:22
  #3554 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
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Ahh yes, should probably RTFQ x 2!
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 14:47
  #3555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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With all the various rumours flying around, an email update is expected for those in the hold pool at some point in the next week or so.
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 15:17
  #3556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Ah let's not get the truth get in the way of a good rumour

It would be appreciated by those of us quietly swimming, if only to keep the dream alive for now.
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 19:40
  #3557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 719
And one of those current rumours is volountary redundancy for BA pilots!

Of course it could just be wishful thinking!
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 20:11
  #3558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 151
They really are getting ridiculous now.
My mate is at the bottom of the seniority and hasn't mentioned it haha
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 22:03
  #3559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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It won't be the bottom of the list they are targeting if true. And I don't believe for one second that it is. Growth on the horizon, upcoming retirements and part-time requests to start accepting. They will need bods.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 07:28
  #3560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
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current rumours is volountary redundancy for BA pilots!
4468 is right, there's talk doing the rounds......

My mate is at the bottom of the seniority and hasn't mentioned it haha
Well haha or not the rumour is doing the rounds in the company, now where it started and whether it is credible is another matter, could be just rumour, could be management testing the water/flying a kite.

Personally I'd be suprised to see vouluntary redundancies being offered before the company has seen the demand for part time working under the revised arrangements.

Edit to add: Just seen elsewhere one of the Union reps saying it's almost certainly a rumour.

Last edited by wiggy; 19th Apr 2017 at 09:05.
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