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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 26th Feb 2018, 10:26
  #4541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
GS-Alpha

Hang on, it was not the “fresh new” workforce that VOTED to get rid of PP24, Bidline, Fixed pay or NAPS! Stop voting yes to things and maybe the T and Cs will stop reducing!
Enzo999 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 10:52
  #4542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 629
100% agree we need to stop voting yes to things. I have only once voted the way BALPA recommended but I am one of the minority.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 11:13
  #4543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 172
They could have solved the whole lot by upping the overtime rate.

(for info x1.25).
blimey is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 11:22
  #4544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Straight Outta Compton
Posts: 18
Enzo999 beat me to it. It's monumentally ironic to hear to people complain that DEPs ruined it all by first working for LoCos, then being happy with their lot at BA, when the majority of those people voted for the 34 year Pay Point, BARP, etc

As a matter of fact, the current EZY membership could give the BA membership a few lessons in standing up to the company. The EZY FRMS is rock solid compared to BA's. And the recent agreement to get rid of the infamous Flexicrew contract was a major union achievement. And let's not forget the resolve it must have taken to get union recognition at Ryanair.
followthegreens is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:00
  #4545 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Right here
Posts: 25
To clarify some points that were raised;

- Yes I did bid for shorthaul command every year from day one; all I got was Equipment Freeze.
- Treated with respect and professionalism at BA? All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience. A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
- Industry leading Pension? I would have had to retire at 65 on £8000,- per year annuity. And that’s with maximum contributions into BARP 2.0
- BA wants JSS over Bidline; that’s all you need to know.
- 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.
- Final salary of plus £200k? Not according to the 34 year pay scale that the majority of DEP’s will never reach the top of. It’s more like £168k (excl flight pay), if you are still full time that is after 33 years of doing 900hrs p/a.
- Planning your life with a fixed roster? How about doing 21 day reserve periods several times per year...
- And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…

I could go on of course, but fear to damage the delicate sensibilities of those who’s only justification seems to be that they’ve had it worse somewhere else before... What can I say, I’ve had it better.
Doppio is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:13
  #4546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: The lovely Norfolk countryside
Posts: 4
Slight redirect,

Does anyone know if BA will ever run another Managed Path recruitment push?

Did the last managed path recruitment program produce the results BA were expecting?
HelloD is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:14
  #4547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Unknown
Posts: 46
Not even allowed to land the A380 for several months as an FO? Why? What about of you have had previous A380 experience.
Club World is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:15
  #4548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Surrey
Posts: 10
[QUOTE=Doppio;10065671]To clarify some points that were raised;

“ All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.”

I actually agree with that, what’s the point in giving every FO at the likes of Ryanair 3 stripes when they get 1500 hours? Pointless and defeats the object!


“ A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months. “

There was very good reason for this, 12 aircraft, 20DEP’s?! There would have been a lot of people going out of recency if these were all trained at the same time!

“ 3 to 4 trips on LH per month? More like 5 or 6; the only change when you have a week’s leave is that the same number of trips are scheduled closer together.”

Iv never done more that 4 trips, and when I have iv bid for it to build bank or picked up an overtime trip!
rustynut is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 13:40
  #4549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Posts: 22
Is there any truth in the rumour that BA are seriously short of pilot numbers?

A rumour puts this in the low to middling hundreds.

That’s quite a gap - if true.
Job Knockey is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 14:06
  #4550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Fiji
Posts: 77
well, just read they want to flood the market with an additional 6,8% seats. So yeah I think every carrier in Europe is struggling getting Pilots. The two big bankruptcys have started the rollercoaster of Pilots. everybody tries to push into that market and we will have a capacity of 120% compared to that one Summer 2017. people sign, do the conversion course, and then leave for the next better option. this year is going to be the hell for HR and recruiting and especially the training departments. having people in the conversion, simulators blocked, and on line training and then left with 2-4 weeks notice period eats up all training capacity.
gnarlberg is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 15:45
  #4551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,644
Just picking up on this:

All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.
That’s a fair point...the two rings has always led to certain incorrect and sometimes unfortunate assumptions being made by some both in the air and on the ground...I certainly think there is a case to be made for experienced new joiners to have three rings....though you’ll never get the company to agree to pay SFO rate from day one though.


A380 FO’s aren’t even trusted to land the aircraft for the first several months.
Um...I’ll admit I haven’t heard that was the case and am a bit suprised...then again that is the fleet that didn’t even trust highly highly experienced Long Haul Boeing pilots to transfer directly to the aircraft for the first year or two......

And dare I mention; most of these decreases in T&C’s were voted in by senior ‘colleagues’. Secure in the knowledge they would never be applied to them; just the new joiners. Welcome to BARP I guess…
I can promise you not all “senior colleagues” buy into the BALPA line...and the demography of the JSS vote would be interesting to see.

Last edited by wiggy; 26th Feb 2018 at 16:06.
wiggy is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 15:59
  #4552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: somewhere between Miami and Havana
Posts: 121
There wasn't enough training capacity to run everyone through complete 380 conversions so some were selected to do just enough of the course to fly as cruise pilots. As soon as there was space in the training dept to complete the conversions, it was situation normal.

One of these cruise only pilots was so senior he's now since retired. It was nothing to do with trust.

I'm not defending BA, far from it. There's not a lot I disagree with from Doppio's post.

Yeah, we are a bit special. Not like 'good' special, more like a fleet full of window lickers...
Buter is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 16:09
  #4553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,644
Ah, thanks.

FWIW BA had two and three ringers flying as temporary cruise pilots, and briefly cruise only lines, on the 744 twenty plus years back so it is not a new thing or necessarily a case of penalising the junior....
wiggy is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 16:19
  #4554 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 934
Wiggy
A380 F/O Landings
A Relative of mine joined a year or so ago as a DEP direct onto the A380. There is no ban on new F/Os landing the aircraft. The problem was the BA lack of Trainers to do the required down route 6 landings.
The large recent LH DEP recruitment simply overpowered the Training section.
So a month or three as a "Cruise only " while you waited in turn.Worked out well in fact, as you ended up having visited most destinations before your training sectors.

Much better than many Asian carriers, for example Qantas, where you can sit for years as an S/O on 747/A380/787 and never land it.

Last edited by cessnapete; 26th Feb 2018 at 18:44.
cessnapete is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 16:59
  #4555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by Doppio View Post
To clarify some points that were raised;

- Treated with respect and professionalism at BA? All new joiners are made to wear two stripes for four years as a junior FO regardless of prior experience.
Please say you forgot to add the wink smiley to this sentence and weren't serious?

If you were serious you might want to give global lifeline a ring for some counseling!
Jumbo2 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:00
  #4556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Near the surface
Posts: 32
On their website BA states hiring 'Forces pilots'. Does anyone has information on that specific path? Possible openings soon?
breakdip is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:03
  #4557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunnydale
Posts: 164
I can't believe that people get hung up on stripes.

Surely what's in your bank balance et the end of the month and how you get to spend your life is significantly more important to how many stripes you have?
back to Boeing is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:27
  #4558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,644
I can't believe that people get hung up on stripes.
Spend some time loitering in the right place in CRC wearing civvies and you’ll probably appreciate the problem.....of course any day now management will sort this out.
wiggy is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:30
  #4559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 3,689
I quite agree. I never wore three stripes. I went straight from two stripes to four stripes in just over a year on the DC-10 and never wore less than four stripes for the next 30-odd years.

Forget about stripes and concentrate on what goes into your bank.
JW411 is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2018, 17:34
  #4560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: England
Posts: 34
Very interested to know more information on the Forces pilot question...
banterbus is offline  

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