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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 25th Apr 2017, 11:00
  #3601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?
As has been said before. There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s. These pilots will now be approaching 50 years of age, and already on the top pay scale. They almost exclusively occupy LHS LH. There are hundreds of them, and I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just as we move out of one period of 'stagnation', another is about to begin.

So I would guess around 2030 before much changes from what we see today? The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.

We definitely have a surplus of pilots at the moment!
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 11:54
  #3602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,258
There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s.
Yep, the first of that generation of cadets were already on line when I joined BA (as a DEP) in the very late 80's and a significant number also came on line over the next few years. Many of those individuals are, almost 30 years later, sitting very high on their senority lists with potentially 10-15 years more to go until reaching 65.
As you rightly say:" I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon."
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 14:26
  #3603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.
How do you see BA looking?
Reduction in T+C's or product dilution?
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 14:57
  #3604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
BAs T&Cs are on a slippery slope , it does not take a genius to figure that out !
Greedy shareholders at the top and ever increasing pressure from the likes of Norwegian etc..
BA is an un streamlined beast compared to the ruthless efficiency of today's Locos .
One of the Best ways to make more profit margin is to reduce T&Cs
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:04
  #3605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 699
Do we really need to start going down this path? This site is overwhelmingly negative as it is. The thing is all of these observations would be great if aviation as an industry was in isolation but tell me one industry that is immune to the overall trend nowadays. Hell I was even speaking to a lawyer a while back who was complaining about the exact same trends that we observe.

The other problem is people always remember the past with rose tinted spectacles and have a serious lack of perspective. To illustrate, I heard someone on the train the other day talking about the terror zeitgeist of today and seriously describing the 1990's as peaceful and carefree! Presumably they were living under a rock during the WTC Bombing, Luxor Massacre, Rwandan Genocide, Bosnian conflict and genocide, Gulf War, Columbine Massacre, Manchester Bombing, Paris Metro Bombings, Air France Algiers Hijack, Tokyo Subway Sarin gas attack, bomb attack on the 1996 Olympics and Oklahoma bombing etc etc.

Snapper5 you don't even work for us so how you can be party to what's going on re Terms and Conditions to start chipping in I don't know.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:10
  #3606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
I know 4 guys in BA , 3 on SH and 1 on the 787
So have a good understanding on what it's like .
I'm not trying to get anyone down but it's the truth
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:43
  #3607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 393
Wow. I know 6 guys. Standby for my 2 pence worth very soon. "You'll be amazed". As Donald Trump might say.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:53
  #3608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
Well done you ! I'm sure all six are "living the dream"
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 16:06
  #3609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 393
You'd be amazed.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 19:32
  #3610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 376
VJW........I think you believe the hype. I could go to EZY and gain a pay rise in the region of 25k right now. A few of my colleague recently took EZY offers DEC. There have been a recent handful of LH FO's who have given notice. Simple truth is BA is good, it's average and really really crap, it just depends what you want from it.

Snapper......your probably right but flight ops has changed a lot over the past few years. T&C have not been squeezed but we have been asked to do more for the same. LOCO guys bang out 4 sectors out of a regional base but we bang out three from LHR. The truth is we are working to EASA FTL's and more trip combinations will work us close to the maximum hours. I don't think we come up against the 900hr limit easily but the duty time is more of an issue. BA has a lot of modernising to do but flight ops is a long way down that road. Will we see T&C's reduce? Probably indirectly and probably for new joiners in the future but we are never going to be a LOCO and if we were then actually some of use would get a pay rise.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 19:49
  #3611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
Where are the LH FOs heading for?
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:06
  #3612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 376
Back to the LOCOs where they came from. I don't think it speaks volumes either way it just highlights that BA is not for everyone. If you want to be at home at night, close to home etc then I guess you would hate BA at the bottom of any list.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:17
  #3613 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
Yeah that's a fair point. Isn't your fabled bid system being changed? Seems pretty drastic given a lot of the pluses on here seem regarding obtaining chunks of time off from using the system. I'd ask if this new thing would be a positive but if a company agrees to something it usually has glaring catches in my experience
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:30
  #3614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London,England
Posts: 1,270
but if a company agrees to something it usually has glaring catches in my experience
Its worse than that, its the system the company practically begged the union to get the pilot workforce to agree to and when it came to a vote the suckers went for it having rejected an almost identical proposal only a short time before. All it needed was a few well placed sweeteners and the suckers went for it and voted it through.

Last edited by Max Angle; 26th Apr 2017 at 08:30.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:53
  #3615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
Wt actual?! Good luck with that one if the firm pushed for it.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:53
  #3616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 376
It's all democratic......we vote and get the wrong answer. We are then told we are naughty pilots and are told we must vote again until till we get the right answer.

Bidline is over rated but the limited ability to trade work is beneficial.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 20:59
  #3617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
VJW........I think you believe the hype. I could go to EZY and gain a pay rise in the region of 25k right now. A few of my colleague recently took EZY offers DEC. There have been a recent handful of LH FO's who have given notice. Simple truth is BA is good, it's average and really really crap, it just depends what you want from it.
Bear in mind that 25k not only gets taxed to the high heavens, but also buys you considerable fatigue and roster disruption. Furthermore your salary at BA will only ever improve, as will your seniority and therefore lifestyle. EZY will have you working the same 5 day min rest/max FDP duties with the same endless roster changes until you're forced into part time - at which point of course that extra cash disappears anyway.

Ultimately I suppose the same is true, EZY has ups and downs depending on what you want from it. Invariably, however, the things you want are usually the things the company doesn't provide.

BA (to my knowledge) is a good employer, offers stability, lifestyle, a career path and a half decent salary. I really do believe some people don't know how good they've got it.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 21:04
  #3618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 376
That's probably the most accurate comment you will find on here.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 23:01
  #3619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 189
To clear up a few misconceptions

On BA SH here. Last financial year I spent 120 days in a hotel on BA duty.

That is the major difference between EJ and BA.
A 5 on 4 off, 5 on 3 off contract with BA's 4 blocks of a week's leave and 10 lieu days (for missed bank holidays) or as we call them 2 x Duty Free Weeks. What does that get you?

Add all those days off up, and you end up in BA
1. Working around 9 days more per year than a 5/4/5/3 EJ pilot and
2. Being away from home around 120 nights.

Short Haul in BA is not greener than the grass of EJ. Just different. And considerably less often at home. But once you gain seniority, you're home often at a time when you want to be.
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Old 26th Apr 2017, 00:07
  #3620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 680
I'd be very interested to hear from any pilots who think they spend more time in uniform (or in hotels away from home!) than BA SH pilots!

I once went a week before I realised I'd worn no clothes other than BA uniform!

Of course it does save on wardrobe costs!
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