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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 23rd Apr 2017, 17:18
  #3581 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 98
Rubbish. Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career. The question is do they go for the part time option or leave all together. Part time has my vote. This is particularly apparent in BA. I often fly with captains who are part time, wanting it or close to giving up all together.
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 19:05
  #3582 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 25
Good info thank you. Do you know if we have to wait till October for all the new part time request etc before any concrete news comes out or do BA know who wants what before?
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Old 23rd Apr 2017, 22:57
  #3583 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 719
Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career.
Precisely why any pilots thinking of joining, should look very, very, very closely!
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 01:48
  #3584 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 949
Yes because BA pilots work more hours for less money and worse T&C's then those of us at the Loco's.

Have to bite my tongue sometimes, but the above is simply ridiculous until the day there's an exodus of BA pilots back to the Loco's.

Those type of comments and/or views sound like they come from someone who has either never worked for RYR or completely forgotten what it's like, either way it's pretty naive to think someone doesn't know what they want having jumped through all the BA recruitment process hoops.

When's the last time HMRC audited a BA pilot?!
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 07:28
  #3585 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,001
What VJW said.

I suspect there's as much/little whinging at BA as anywhere else, though some make more noise than others, and TBH I think a few of the previous posts have been motivated by (perhaps understandable) wishful thinking .

I personally don't see a rush to the door caused by "high flying hours" - in the cold light of day where are these individuals going to jump to? FR, the Gulf, Tescos, the Job Exchange? There is however considerable demand for part time.

When's the last time HMRC audited a BA pilot?!
FWIW it happens, certainly amongst those non resident in the UK.................................

Last edited by wiggy; 24th Apr 2017 at 08:55.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 11:57
  #3586 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
With all the various rumours flying around, an email update is expected for those in the hold pool at some point in the next week or so.
Was there any substance to this in the end? As you say it would be nice to have a few of these rumours straightened out by the horse's mouth. Especially as they apparently aren't replying to people's emails.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 13:26
  #3587 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 821
Given the intention to get in touch was stated internally by one of the people responsible, I would hope it wouldn't be too long before you hear something.
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 13:28
  #3588 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by Bealzebub View Post
"Floodgates" of retirement are an illusion. With advancing age, the natural attrition smooths out the process. In the last 5-10 years of any pilot groups working life, a greater proportion will become medically unfit. Some will reduce their working footprint by such vehicles as part time working. A few will avail themselves of other opportunities. By the time that group reaches age 65 any projection of a " flood" or "bulge" is usually little more than a trickle.

Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.

When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.

In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.
Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 13:54
  #3589 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Given the intention to get in touch was stated internally by one of the people responsible, I would hope it wouldn't be too long before you hear something.
Presumably said person alluded to the situation and what might be written in this email?
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 11:00
  #3590 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 719
Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?
As has been said before. There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s. These pilots will now be approaching 50 years of age, and already on the top pay scale. They almost exclusively occupy LHS LH. There are hundreds of them, and I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just as we move out of one period of 'stagnation', another is about to begin.

So I would guess around 2030 before much changes from what we see today? The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.

We definitely have a surplus of pilots at the moment!
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 11:54
  #3591 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,001
There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s.
Yep, the first of that generation of cadets were already on line when I joined BA (as a DEP) in the very late 80's and a significant number also came on line over the next few years. Many of those individuals are, almost 30 years later, sitting very high on their senority lists with potentially 10-15 years more to go until reaching 65.
As you rightly say:" I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon."
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 14:26
  #3592 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by 4468 View Post
The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.
How do you see BA looking?
Reduction in T+C's or product dilution?
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 14:57
  #3593 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
BAs T&Cs are on a slippery slope , it does not take a genius to figure that out !
Greedy shareholders at the top and ever increasing pressure from the likes of Norwegian etc..
BA is an un streamlined beast compared to the ruthless efficiency of today's Locos .
One of the Best ways to make more profit margin is to reduce T&Cs
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:04
  #3594 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Do we really need to start going down this path? This site is overwhelmingly negative as it is. The thing is all of these observations would be great if aviation as an industry was in isolation but tell me one industry that is immune to the overall trend nowadays. Hell I was even speaking to a lawyer a while back who was complaining about the exact same trends that we observe.

The other problem is people always remember the past with rose tinted spectacles and have a serious lack of perspective. To illustrate, I heard someone on the train the other day talking about the terror zeitgeist of today and seriously describing the 1990's as peaceful and carefree! Presumably they were living under a rock during the WTC Bombing, Luxor Massacre, Rwandan Genocide, Bosnian conflict and genocide, Gulf War, Columbine Massacre, Manchester Bombing, Paris Metro Bombings, Air France Algiers Hijack, Tokyo Subway Sarin gas attack, bomb attack on the 1996 Olympics and Oklahoma bombing etc etc.

Snapper5 you don't even work for us so how you can be party to what's going on re Terms and Conditions to start chipping in I don't know.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:10
  #3595 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
I know 4 guys in BA , 3 on SH and 1 on the 787
So have a good understanding on what it's like .
I'm not trying to get anyone down but it's the truth
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:43
  #3596 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Wow. I know 6 guys. Standby for my 2 pence worth very soon. "You'll be amazed". As Donald Trump might say.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 15:53
  #3597 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
Well done you ! I'm sure all six are "living the dream"
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 16:06
  #3598 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 433
You'd be amazed.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 19:32
  #3599 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
VJW........I think you believe the hype. I could go to EZY and gain a pay rise in the region of 25k right now. A few of my colleague recently took EZY offers DEC. There have been a recent handful of LH FO's who have given notice. Simple truth is BA is good, it's average and really really crap, it just depends what you want from it.

Snapper......your probably right but flight ops has changed a lot over the past few years. T&C have not been squeezed but we have been asked to do more for the same. LOCO guys bang out 4 sectors out of a regional base but we bang out three from LHR. The truth is we are working to EASA FTL's and more trip combinations will work us close to the maximum hours. I don't think we come up against the 900hr limit easily but the duty time is more of an issue. BA has a lot of modernising to do but flight ops is a long way down that road. Will we see T&C's reduce? Probably indirectly and probably for new joiners in the future but we are never going to be a LOCO and if we were then actually some of use would get a pay rise.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 19:49
  #3600 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 163
Where are the LH FOs heading for?
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