Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 22nd Apr 2017, 10:24
  #3581 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
I have no idea why any floodgate should open in 2017? It should already have started.
I suspect you know this but for those that don't I think what has happened is a significant number of the over 55s left ( voluntarily or forced due medicals etc) between the ages of 55-65, there wasn't the step change in the retirement rate last Autumn that some were expecting or even hoping for....Unless there's a massive change, for example in something like Pension Provison/legislation, or a sudden offer of Paid, voluntary retirement, I suspect the current rate of retirements will probably be typical for some time to come.
wiggy is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2017, 13:34
  #3582 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 706
There is unpaid leave available on several fleets this summer. Mostly for F/Os.

According to the Balpa age demo-graphic figures there is a bit of a bulge of retirements forecast around 2020.

However, a large number of the top 1500 pilots are aged around 50. The real floodgates open in about 15-20 years, but who knows what will be left of BA by then.....

All this assumes every pilot working to 65 and no part time or expansion.
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2017, 17:19
  #3583 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by BitMoreRightRudder View Post
According to the Balpa age demo-graphic figures there is a bit of a bulge of retirements forecast around 2020.
Company sources are saying a big tranche in 2019 AND 2020. However that's of little comfort to the guys trying to stay afloat into 2018. My personal opinion is that there'll be a large take up of the aspirational part time contracts. There's only one new 787 this year, it was always going to be quiet. Things will pick up again from next year, no need for alarm.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 08:10
  #3584 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Northants
Posts: 692
I think that all the numbers will change when NAPS is closed down in the next 2-3 years. Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension? I can see a huge number of retirements when the pension situation changes.
Flap62 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 08:41
  #3585 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Flap62 View Post
Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension?

Ex wife(s) to pay for?
Cuillin Hills is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 09:48
  #3586 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 683
Flap62
Why would a late 50s Captain keep working if it's going to have no effect on his pension?
Because they simply can't live without their perceived 'status'!

Cullin Hills

Anyone with an (more than one!) ex-wife, is likely to have a younger partner, and quite possibly a 'new' family too. - Expensive!

Very unlikely, pension changes will have any significant effect on retirements IMVHO!
4468 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 10:08
  #3587 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
I suspect it's v rarely status that alone delays retirements beyond 55 these days, it's more likely a conservative ( small 'c') approach to life. As you get older you find crystal balls aren't all they are cracked up to be and IMHO I think in this day and age you need to be a very careful voluntarily dumping yourself out of the job market with up to 10 more potential years to run.

NAPS ain't bad but it's not the be all and end all, especially for those who joined as DEPs and still have dependant kids . .. I think even a single pilot or those of us married only once, and still married look at the sums these days and go "ummm, do I really want to jettison another 10 years of income" when we don't know what interest rates, inflation etc are going to do.

Like you I don't think NAPS closure itself will be an issue, it's more likely to be another tweak in pensions legislation.

Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Apr 2017 at 14:20.
wiggy is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 12:52
  #3588 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,263
"Floodgates" of retirement are an illusion. With advancing age, the natural attrition smooths out the process. In the last 5-10 years of any pilot groups working life, a greater proportion will become medically unfit. Some will reduce their working footprint by such vehicles as part time working. A few will avail themselves of other opportunities. By the time that group reaches age 65 any projection of a " flood" or "bulge" is usually little more than a trickle.

Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.

When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.

In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.
Bealzebub is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 16:38
  #3589 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 109
I take the point that these things might smooth out bulges but retirement, decrease in medical fitness, part time options, they still all lead down one sure path: Recruitment.

"A rose by any other name"....
Plastic787 is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 18:18
  #3590 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 97
Rubbish. Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career. The question is do they go for the part time option or leave all together. Part time has my vote. This is particularly apparent in BA. I often fly with captains who are part time, wanting it or close to giving up all together.
HidekiTojo is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 20:05
  #3591 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Uk
Posts: 25
Good info thank you. Do you know if we have to wait till October for all the new part time request etc before any concrete news comes out or do BA know who wants what before?
basiljet is offline  
Old 23rd Apr 2017, 23:57
  #3592 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 683
Early retirements will increase due to the extreme amount of flying current day pilots do. It's too much and the love is lost. I predict many pilots bailing out early on the career.
Precisely why any pilots thinking of joining, should look very, very, very closely!
4468 is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 02:48
  #3593 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 786
Yes because BA pilots work more hours for less money and worse T&C's then those of us at the Loco's.

Have to bite my tongue sometimes, but the above is simply ridiculous until the day there's an exodus of BA pilots back to the Loco's.

Those type of comments and/or views sound like they come from someone who has either never worked for RYR or completely forgotten what it's like, either way it's pretty naive to think someone doesn't know what they want having jumped through all the BA recruitment process hoops.

When's the last time HMRC audited a BA pilot?!
VJW is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 08:28
  #3594 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
What VJW said.

I suspect there's as much/little whinging at BA as anywhere else, though some make more noise than others, and TBH I think a few of the previous posts have been motivated by (perhaps understandable) wishful thinking .

I personally don't see a rush to the door caused by "high flying hours" - in the cold light of day where are these individuals going to jump to? FR, the Gulf, Tescos, the Job Exchange? There is however considerable demand for part time.

When's the last time HMRC audited a BA pilot?!
FWIW it happens, certainly amongst those non resident in the UK.................................

Last edited by wiggy; 24th Apr 2017 at 09:55.
wiggy is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 12:57
  #3595 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
With all the various rumours flying around, an email update is expected for those in the hold pool at some point in the next week or so.
Was there any substance to this in the end? As you say it would be nice to have a few of these rumours straightened out by the horse's mouth. Especially as they apparently aren't replying to people's emails.
FACoff is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 14:26
  #3596 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 786
Given the intention to get in touch was stated internally by one of the people responsible, I would hope it wouldn't be too long before you hear something.
Jwscud is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 14:28
  #3597 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: On the road
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by Bealzebub View Post
"Floodgates" of retirement are an illusion. With advancing age, the natural attrition smooths out the process. In the last 5-10 years of any pilot groups working life, a greater proportion will become medically unfit. Some will reduce their working footprint by such vehicles as part time working. A few will avail themselves of other opportunities. By the time that group reaches age 65 any projection of a " flood" or "bulge" is usually little more than a trickle.

Despite the perceived lure of retirement, for many people it focuses the mind on the limited timescale to achieve one final fiscal sprint. There is also the realisation that The job forces you to keep active, and for many that becomes an important motivator. Pilots at this end of their careers are also likely to be enjoying the best of the respective terms & conditions on offer, and would likely want to enjoy that for as long as possible.

When retirement was typically 55 it was more likely that a greater proportion of any given group would achieve that milestone. A retirement bulge (although still rare) was more conceivable. A decade of more gradual attrition simply provides for a much more gradual slope. Add to that improvements in maintaining medical certification standards, and the process becomes even smoother still.

In summary, retirements are a false hope. The real opportunities are going to come from economic growth.
Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?
Cliff Secord is offline  
Old 24th Apr 2017, 14:54
  #3598 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Given the intention to get in touch was stated internally by one of the people responsible, I would hope it wouldn't be too long before you hear something.
Presumably said person alluded to the situation and what might be written in this email?
applecrumble is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2017, 12:00
  #3599 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 683
Do you foresee BA LH commands coming down from the nearly double decades?
As has been said before. There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s. These pilots will now be approaching 50 years of age, and already on the top pay scale. They almost exclusively occupy LHS LH. There are hundreds of them, and I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon.

Just as we move out of one period of 'stagnation', another is about to begin.

So I would guess around 2030 before much changes from what we see today? The chance at that time, of BA looking anything like it does now, is highly questionable.

We definitely have a surplus of pilots at the moment!
4468 is offline  
Old 25th Apr 2017, 12:54
  #3600 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,527
There was a very significant spike in recruitment of cadets in the early 90s.
Yep, the first of that generation of cadets were already on line when I joined BA (as a DEP) in the very late 80's and a significant number also came on line over the next few years. Many of those individuals are, almost 30 years later, sitting very high on their senority lists with potentially 10-15 years more to go until reaching 65.
As you rightly say:" I wouldn't foresee them going anywhere, anytime soon."
wiggy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.