DGCA Expat Phase-Out
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DGCA Expat Phase-Out
Dear Friends,
I am starting this thread to invite inputs from pilots from India on the DGCA Deadline on Expat phaseout. We all know that DGCA had extended the Expat phaseout deadlines and how it is going to impact the career progression and first officer hiring in coming years.
Here I propose start an Right to Information campaign by we which we will demand information from Ministry of Civil Aviation on the expat-phaseout plans.
I will like you all to suggest queries to be put in the RTI request.
First few queries are
1. Statistics of FATAs issued by DGCA in tabular format for past Three years
Year, Month, Operator, FATA-Number, Original Country, Nationality, Date and Validity
2. Copy of orders requiring expat phaseout
3. Copy of the phase-out plans submitted by airlines/operators
4. Copy of the DGCAs audit of these phase-out plans if any
5. Copy of the reasons cited for postponing the phase-out deadlines
6. ...
Please suggest other ministeries/authorities where a pertinent RTI Application can be filed, like the ministry issuing work VISA etc..
You can put forward any other issue you think may have unjustifiably affected your employment or career prospetcs.
Cheers All
I am starting this thread to invite inputs from pilots from India on the DGCA Deadline on Expat phaseout. We all know that DGCA had extended the Expat phaseout deadlines and how it is going to impact the career progression and first officer hiring in coming years.
Here I propose start an Right to Information campaign by we which we will demand information from Ministry of Civil Aviation on the expat-phaseout plans.
I will like you all to suggest queries to be put in the RTI request.
First few queries are
1. Statistics of FATAs issued by DGCA in tabular format for past Three years
Year, Month, Operator, FATA-Number, Original Country, Nationality, Date and Validity
2. Copy of orders requiring expat phaseout
3. Copy of the phase-out plans submitted by airlines/operators
4. Copy of the DGCAs audit of these phase-out plans if any
5. Copy of the reasons cited for postponing the phase-out deadlines
6. ...
Please suggest other ministeries/authorities where a pertinent RTI Application can be filed, like the ministry issuing work VISA etc..
You can put forward any other issue you think may have unjustifiably affected your employment or career prospetcs.
Cheers All
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jimmy gill,
this is an international pilots forum where pilots share information to help and advance the profession and careers of one another, irrespective of ones nationality.
this is not an Indian pilots forum to press for political reform so one can cater to his own advancment at the expense of others.
it looks like you are getting desperate to fly a widebody.
this is an international pilots forum where pilots share information to help and advance the profession and careers of one another, irrespective of ones nationality.
this is not an Indian pilots forum to press for political reform so one can cater to his own advancment at the expense of others.
it looks like you are getting desperate to fly a widebody.
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rdr
Kudos!...well said.
I don't want to disappoint jimmy but, with the reversal of the downward trend on Indian air transport industry, the need of experienced professionals will return to pre 2008 levels.
And so the need of expats. Of course the locals will have their careers moving forward, but keep in mind that it takes an average 20 years to mature a pilot from flying school into a widebody captain.
I don't want to disappoint jimmy but, with the reversal of the downward trend on Indian air transport industry, the need of experienced professionals will return to pre 2008 levels.
And so the need of expats. Of course the locals will have their careers moving forward, but keep in mind that it takes an average 20 years to mature a pilot from flying school into a widebody captain.
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@ rdr
I understand your point of view. Requesting information is not a political action, information and transparency is good for all, local as well expats. Besides everyone has a right to political action. I just don't want to do it under-ground, after all its a legitimate action.
For your kind information expats are not just flying the wide-bodies, but are also recruited as flight instructors across India.
As for the desperation, I am happy flying a PA-18. On lighter side, "you might have said this is a rumor network so why are you interested in knowing the truth"
@ fullforward
Only when we receive information on the hired expats would we be able to know the average experience of the expats hired and compare it with the 20 years as you say.
If nothing else happens, we will have the official information to discuss in the forum.
Thanks for the Idea, I guess I should include the Total Hours and Hours on Type also on the list.
Thanks both for the input.
I understand your point of view. Requesting information is not a political action, information and transparency is good for all, local as well expats. Besides everyone has a right to political action. I just don't want to do it under-ground, after all its a legitimate action.
For your kind information expats are not just flying the wide-bodies, but are also recruited as flight instructors across India.
As for the desperation, I am happy flying a PA-18. On lighter side, "you might have said this is a rumor network so why are you interested in knowing the truth"
@ fullforward
Only when we receive information on the hired expats would we be able to know the average experience of the expats hired and compare it with the 20 years as you say.
If nothing else happens, we will have the official information to discuss in the forum.
Thanks for the Idea, I guess I should include the Total Hours and Hours on Type also on the list.
Thanks both for the input.
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It's a myth or a fantasy to think that all expats working in India are extremely skilled or have decades of experience with 10,000+ hours.
There are a lot of expats working in India with no-so-high total time and hardly any jet time. They have paid commission to several agencies to get the job.
Big racket.
There are a lot of expats working in India with no-so-high total time and hardly any jet time. They have paid commission to several agencies to get the job.
Big racket.
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Guys I really don't think this is going to help. The expats are here to stay and they are not leaving anytime soon. Lets just face it... and don't believe anything which the DGCA or the MOCA says regarding the phase out plans for the expats. And I am also pretty sure the airlines also would prefer to pay lower salaries and have desi pilots than pay twice the salary and hire expats. There is a sever shortage of Capts. and we all know that there are'nt enough indian capts so airlines have to hire expats.
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
I am also an unemployed Indian CPL holder like many of you guys. Even I have been through all the miserable things which some of you might have experienced, but I think accepting the facts is the best thing to do rather than living in denial.
Its going to be a looong wait.....lets accept it..
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
I am also an unemployed Indian CPL holder like many of you guys. Even I have been through all the miserable things which some of you might have experienced, but I think accepting the facts is the best thing to do rather than living in denial.
Its going to be a looong wait.....lets accept it..
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Guys I really don't think this is going to help. The expats are here to stay and they are not leaving anytime soon. Lets just face it... and don't believe anything which the DGCA or the MOCA says regarding the phase out plans for the expats. And I am also pretty sure the airlines also would prefer to pay lower salaries and have desi pilots than pay twice the salary and hire expats. There is a sever shortage of Capts. and we all know that there are'nt enough indian capts so airlines have to hire expats.
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
I am also an unemployed Indian CPL holder like many of you guys. Even I have been through all the miserable things which some of you might have experienced, but I think accepting the facts is the best thing to do rather than living in denial.
Its going to be a looong wait.....lets accept it..
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
I am also an unemployed Indian CPL holder like many of you guys. Even I have been through all the miserable things which some of you might have experienced, but I think accepting the facts is the best thing to do rather than living in denial.
Its going to be a looong wait.....lets accept it..
If you go to eaglejet pay them around 40k usd you will get 500 hrs first officer time on A320, and will soon be legally ready to fly in India as expat. What is eaglejet requirement, 250 hrs + 40k USD.
Consider this: Before flying the eagle jet you will just as unsafe as the 250 hrs wizards here.You will NOT be flying that A320 as first officer in am empty aircraft, there will be people on-board and on ground in the harms way.
By the way what harm is there in doing proper research? I am just proposing that we use our rights instead of being fatalistic and resignatory about the recession/long-wait argument.
Remember if a young bird doesn't use its wings, somebody is going to clip them. We have all kinds of pressure groups in the industry why not have one group for ourself.
I will quote without telling the origin, "Be the change you want to see in the world."
Think of something which can help you make proper decision, or help you know about the industry and we will put that in the Application.
Thanks for your inputs anyway.
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@flyjet787
you're saying "we all know" that there are'nt enough Indian Captains ...
Seriously, I do not know whether there are sufficiently qualified Indian national pilots to replace expats. and that is the reason why we have an RTI system to find out some information.
Now, how YOU and ALL others know that there are'nt enough Indian national pilots qualified enough to replace expats in all the airlines, charters, flying clubs and corporates in India .. Im quite amazed and impressed !
Have you done a comprehensive study of the data of all the airlines, corporates, flying schools etc in India and done a comparison of the no. of hours, experience, ratings, past history of ALL the employees (nationals and expats) that you have miraculously come to this conclusion (with all others) ?
Or is it that you have resigned to this "fact" after reading some newspaper articles and other drivel on some internet site ? (The same newspapers and websites which promised you a grand and glamourous career a couple of years back maybe ?)
Secondly, your sentence ...
At the risk of sounding rude, that is purely a naive view. It shows your gross ignorance of how the industry works in this country.
Trust me, Im speaking with facts. Inputs from Indian national commanders with TRI/TRE qualifications in the national carieer and in other private airlines in India.
If safety is INDEED paramount to all the airlines and the Civil Aviation Ministry or the Govt. of India, then almost ALL the rookie pilots who are purely boom-time beneficiaries should be shown the door and replaced by expat FOs with 1000s of hours on multi engine pistons/turbo props etc.
There are low time pilots flying as FOs in India right now who can not track radials inbound or outbound for $hit, leave alone exhibit basic airmanship and other mandatory qualities in the cockpit.
We have the "Shahrukh-Khans" and "John Abrahams" in the cockpit who prefer to spend time chatting up with cabin crew during flights than do other important stuff.
CRM is just three letters of the english language for a lot of pilots and they prefer their own ad-hoc SOPs rather than follow company/DGCA/ICAO SOPs.
A few prominent ministers and DGCA officers are on the "unofficial" payrolls of some of the airlines.
Crew busting their FDTL's is pretty common (wont name anyone or any airline here for good reasons).
Again ... this is not coming from me, but from Indian and expat pilots who have several thousands of Jet Command time with TRI/TRE qualifications.
Recruitment of expats to an extent, is justified. But, most of the airlines are recruiting expats and offering them much higher salaries than Indian national pilots SIMPLY BECAUSE IT MAKES ECONOMIC SENSE. It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with basic economics, my friend.
It would cost a lot of money and effort to upgrade an FO to Command on the same aircraft or as FO on a different aircraft (wide body for example).
Also, jimmygill has not attacked expats, or shown any malicious intent towards them at all. There is nothing wrong in asking for inputs or ideas from pilots for the same.
And this is not a movement or rebellion or anything for the cause of unemployed CPL holders. He has clearly mentioned that he is requesting inputs from ALL PILOTS in India.
Safety is of NIL concern to the airlines or even the Government in India, just like almost everything else.
Understand and accept THIS reality first.
There is a sever shortage of Capts. and we all know that there are'nt enough indian capts so airlines have to hire expats.
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
And another vey important point is that not all ATPL holders will be fit/qualify to fly as captains. And you can not push the ailines/DGCA to pass the Indian ATPL holder to replace the expats captains even if they are not good enough. Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
Seriously, I do not know whether there are sufficiently qualified Indian national pilots to replace expats. and that is the reason why we have an RTI system to find out some information.
Now, how YOU and ALL others know that there are'nt enough Indian national pilots qualified enough to replace expats in all the airlines, charters, flying clubs and corporates in India .. Im quite amazed and impressed !
Have you done a comprehensive study of the data of all the airlines, corporates, flying schools etc in India and done a comparison of the no. of hours, experience, ratings, past history of ALL the employees (nationals and expats) that you have miraculously come to this conclusion (with all others) ?
Or is it that you have resigned to this "fact" after reading some newspaper articles and other drivel on some internet site ? (The same newspapers and websites which promised you a grand and glamourous career a couple of years back maybe ?)
Secondly, your sentence ...
Its the safety of the people thats more important than providing employment to the unemplyed pilots.
Trust me, Im speaking with facts. Inputs from Indian national commanders with TRI/TRE qualifications in the national carieer and in other private airlines in India.
If safety is INDEED paramount to all the airlines and the Civil Aviation Ministry or the Govt. of India, then almost ALL the rookie pilots who are purely boom-time beneficiaries should be shown the door and replaced by expat FOs with 1000s of hours on multi engine pistons/turbo props etc.
There are low time pilots flying as FOs in India right now who can not track radials inbound or outbound for $hit, leave alone exhibit basic airmanship and other mandatory qualities in the cockpit.
We have the "Shahrukh-Khans" and "John Abrahams" in the cockpit who prefer to spend time chatting up with cabin crew during flights than do other important stuff.
CRM is just three letters of the english language for a lot of pilots and they prefer their own ad-hoc SOPs rather than follow company/DGCA/ICAO SOPs.
A few prominent ministers and DGCA officers are on the "unofficial" payrolls of some of the airlines.
Crew busting their FDTL's is pretty common (wont name anyone or any airline here for good reasons).
Again ... this is not coming from me, but from Indian and expat pilots who have several thousands of Jet Command time with TRI/TRE qualifications.
Recruitment of expats to an extent, is justified. But, most of the airlines are recruiting expats and offering them much higher salaries than Indian national pilots SIMPLY BECAUSE IT MAKES ECONOMIC SENSE. It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with basic economics, my friend.
It would cost a lot of money and effort to upgrade an FO to Command on the same aircraft or as FO on a different aircraft (wide body for example).
Also, jimmygill has not attacked expats, or shown any malicious intent towards them at all. There is nothing wrong in asking for inputs or ideas from pilots for the same.
And this is not a movement or rebellion or anything for the cause of unemployed CPL holders. He has clearly mentioned that he is requesting inputs from ALL PILOTS in India.
Safety is of NIL concern to the airlines or even the Government in India, just like almost everything else.
Understand and accept THIS reality first.
Last edited by shanx; 5th Mar 2010 at 09:13.
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@flyjet787
Please visit following for expat first officer requirement with Indigo.
Pilot training programs from Independent Contract Pilot aviation school
Do you still want to wait?
Please visit following for expat first officer requirement with Indigo.
Pilot training programs from Independent Contract Pilot aviation school
Do you still want to wait?
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@jimmygill:
In my previous post I was only talking about expat captains and not F/o's. There is this huge misconception among the unemplyed CPL holders (like you and me) that every Indian F/o holding an ATPL (with about 1500-2000hrs) should be made captain to replace the expat captain and then he/she can take the F/o's place. What I am saying is that this is not really practical and it does compromise safety of the aircraft and people.
I am not trying to offend you or say what you are doing is wrong.
I really appreciate what you are trying to do and you will always have my support.
And about the Indigo F/o's requirments. Din't they come out with an advertisement with similar requirments for Indian pilots aswell.
@shanx:
"Now, how YOU and ALL others know that there are'nt enough Indian national pilots qualified enough to replace expats in all the airlines, charters, flying clubs and corporates in India .. Im quite amazed and impressed !"
So are you saying there are infact enough Indian National Captains (who are qualified/fit to fly on the LHS) to replace all the expats in the airlines, charters etc.?
"Have you done a comprehensive study of the data of all the airlines, corporates, flying schools etc in India and done a comparison of the no. of hours, experience, ratings, past history of ALL the employees (nationals and expats) that you have miraculously come to this conclusion (with all others)"
I would love to hear about your comprehensive study of all the data that you have mentioned above.
I think I din't chose the right words in my last post. All I was trying to say was that the airlines must not be forced to replace the Expat Capts. with Indian Capts. even if they are not good enough for the job. The airlines shoud not be forced to make every Indian ATPL holder with 1500 hrs a Capt. As you mentioned we already have the Shahrukhs and Rajnikants who are all BOOM-BENEFICIARIES on the RHS. Would you really want these BOOM-BENEFICIARIES WITH 1500-2000 HRS to be flying on the LHS as well.
Again, I am only expressing my views about replacing experienced/Expat Capts. with relatively Inexperienced fresh Indian Capts.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am not againt Indian pilots replacing the expats and I am definetly against having Expat F/o's . I just feel that it should be done in well mannered and thoughtful process with a certain degree of importance to safety as well.
Anyways I really don't want to prolong this argument about who is right and who is wrong. I was just expressing my views.
I will try to contribute with any useful inputs than might help you guys with the RTI.
I have a question for you guys. The DGCA has asked the airlines to phase out expats...does this also apply to the Corprates?
In my previous post I was only talking about expat captains and not F/o's. There is this huge misconception among the unemplyed CPL holders (like you and me) that every Indian F/o holding an ATPL (with about 1500-2000hrs) should be made captain to replace the expat captain and then he/she can take the F/o's place. What I am saying is that this is not really practical and it does compromise safety of the aircraft and people.
I am not trying to offend you or say what you are doing is wrong.
I really appreciate what you are trying to do and you will always have my support.
And about the Indigo F/o's requirments. Din't they come out with an advertisement with similar requirments for Indian pilots aswell.
@shanx:
"Now, how YOU and ALL others know that there are'nt enough Indian national pilots qualified enough to replace expats in all the airlines, charters, flying clubs and corporates in India .. Im quite amazed and impressed !"
So are you saying there are infact enough Indian National Captains (who are qualified/fit to fly on the LHS) to replace all the expats in the airlines, charters etc.?
"Have you done a comprehensive study of the data of all the airlines, corporates, flying schools etc in India and done a comparison of the no. of hours, experience, ratings, past history of ALL the employees (nationals and expats) that you have miraculously come to this conclusion (with all others)"
I would love to hear about your comprehensive study of all the data that you have mentioned above.
I think I din't chose the right words in my last post. All I was trying to say was that the airlines must not be forced to replace the Expat Capts. with Indian Capts. even if they are not good enough for the job. The airlines shoud not be forced to make every Indian ATPL holder with 1500 hrs a Capt. As you mentioned we already have the Shahrukhs and Rajnikants who are all BOOM-BENEFICIARIES on the RHS. Would you really want these BOOM-BENEFICIARIES WITH 1500-2000 HRS to be flying on the LHS as well.
Again, I am only expressing my views about replacing experienced/Expat Capts. with relatively Inexperienced fresh Indian Capts.
Please don't misunderstand me. I am not againt Indian pilots replacing the expats and I am definetly against having Expat F/o's . I just feel that it should be done in well mannered and thoughtful process with a certain degree of importance to safety as well.
Anyways I really don't want to prolong this argument about who is right and who is wrong. I was just expressing my views.
I will try to contribute with any useful inputs than might help you guys with the RTI.
I have a question for you guys. The DGCA has asked the airlines to phase out expats...does this also apply to the Corprates?
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Magic in Numbers
@flyjet787
From the CARs on FATA
What magical safety do above minimums guarantee?
If you think that we don't have pilots with 2000 hrs time on airliners with ATPLs, you need to support it with some number.
From the CARs on FATA
as co-pilot, the flight crew should have:-
i) Minimum 100 hours on type as P2, or
ii) Minimum 500 hours total on multi-engine, or
iii) Minimum 1000 hours total flying experience
i) Minimum 100 hours on type as P2, or
ii) Minimum 500 hours total on multi-engine, or
iii) Minimum 1000 hours total flying experience
as PIC, the flight crew should have a:-
i) Minimum PIC flying experience – 2000Hrs
ii) Minimum PIC on type – 100 hrs with current IR / LR check.
i) Minimum PIC flying experience – 2000Hrs
ii) Minimum PIC on type – 100 hrs with current IR / LR check.
If you think that we don't have pilots with 2000 hrs time on airliners with ATPLs, you need to support it with some number.
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@Flyjet787
To answer your question, No .. I have not done any study on the data related to flight crew employed in airlines in India.
Which is why I have not said anywhere that all expats should be asked to leave and replaced by Indian captains or Indian senior F/Os.
However, I do know a lot of pilots flying for airlines in India who claim that they are not getting their due in terms of career progression for several reasons, whilst at the same time we have several shady outfits supplying pilots to the airlines for $$$. There's more to it than meets the eye when it comes to expat pilot recruitment and all these brokers and agencies.
Which is also one of the reasons why it would be interesting to see what kind of a response an RTI would generate.
And not just the airlines ... Im not getting desperate to fly a jet (narrow, wide or extra wide). There are expats with low hours and just an FAA CPL with CFI/CFII ratings with not more than 500-600 hours total time and are working as FIs or AFI's in Indian flying clubs.
There's no arguing here. We're just exchanging views, and I apologize if my previous post was rude and hurt/offended you.
To answer your question, No .. I have not done any study on the data related to flight crew employed in airlines in India.
Which is why I have not said anywhere that all expats should be asked to leave and replaced by Indian captains or Indian senior F/Os.
However, I do know a lot of pilots flying for airlines in India who claim that they are not getting their due in terms of career progression for several reasons, whilst at the same time we have several shady outfits supplying pilots to the airlines for $$$. There's more to it than meets the eye when it comes to expat pilot recruitment and all these brokers and agencies.
Which is also one of the reasons why it would be interesting to see what kind of a response an RTI would generate.
And not just the airlines ... Im not getting desperate to fly a jet (narrow, wide or extra wide). There are expats with low hours and just an FAA CPL with CFI/CFII ratings with not more than 500-600 hours total time and are working as FIs or AFI's in Indian flying clubs.
There's no arguing here. We're just exchanging views, and I apologize if my previous post was rude and hurt/offended you.
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@flyjet787
I have a very simple test using which you can come to some practical awarebess about safety..
1. If tomorrow you have an offer from Indigo to fly their Brand New A320 as a F/O with several scores of passengers behind you. Are you going to say, "Look boss I guess you should hire an expat for this safety critical job?" or will you say "Alright I am ready?"
2. Suppose you selected the later choice, and after 4 years you have around 2500 hrs on A320 as F/O and you also have been working hard and got your ATPL. If the airline now comes with an offer of upgrading you to your left seat, with a 50-80% increase in take-home and reduced flight load. Will you say "Look boss I guess you should hire an expat for this safety critical job and may be I will be ready after I log 2-3000 more hours as F/O?" or will you say "Alright I am ready?"
Aviation safety is not a mythical art, its a well founded science, worldwide pilot training should be quiet deficient otherwise what can explain the myths which go around in a forum heavily populated by pilots.
If you are a f/o with 1000 hrs total time, will you refuse to fly with a captain that has just 3000 hrs total time and is released just the last week for command?
I have a very simple test using which you can come to some practical awarebess about safety..
1. If tomorrow you have an offer from Indigo to fly their Brand New A320 as a F/O with several scores of passengers behind you. Are you going to say, "Look boss I guess you should hire an expat for this safety critical job?" or will you say "Alright I am ready?"
2. Suppose you selected the later choice, and after 4 years you have around 2500 hrs on A320 as F/O and you also have been working hard and got your ATPL. If the airline now comes with an offer of upgrading you to your left seat, with a 50-80% increase in take-home and reduced flight load. Will you say "Look boss I guess you should hire an expat for this safety critical job and may be I will be ready after I log 2-3000 more hours as F/O?" or will you say "Alright I am ready?"
Aviation safety is not a mythical art, its a well founded science, worldwide pilot training should be quiet deficient otherwise what can explain the myths which go around in a forum heavily populated by pilots.
If you are a f/o with 1000 hrs total time, will you refuse to fly with a captain that has just 3000 hrs total time and is released just the last week for command?
Last edited by jimmygill; 5th Mar 2010 at 13:30.
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Gents !
Stats Time : As date, the ATPL's being issued are of series 40xx.
Since 1 Jan 2008, there have been 626 ATPL's issued till date.
@ Jimmy, I am interested in the Number of Pilots working on FATA. Expat, Indian or Alien.
Do you think the RTI can help deliver those stats ?
Also do not forget that more Ex-Defense Pilots join Airlines as Direct entry Captains than Expats. And even this is one of the reason's for Senior Co-Pilots not being upgraded.
India is an awfully small country.
Silent.
Stats Time : As date, the ATPL's being issued are of series 40xx.
Since 1 Jan 2008, there have been 626 ATPL's issued till date.
@ Jimmy, I am interested in the Number of Pilots working on FATA. Expat, Indian or Alien.
Do you think the RTI can help deliver those stats ?
Also do not forget that more Ex-Defense Pilots join Airlines as Direct entry Captains than Expats. And even this is one of the reason's for Senior Co-Pilots not being upgraded.
India is an awfully small country.
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what you clowns, jimmy, shanks and the others are doing, is basically telling a worldwide audience what a **** country you come from, with a **** system, and airlines with unqualified **** pilots.
but even more so, how immature and indisciplined you can be, just because you think your way is the right way to widebody nirvana.
the good ones, and there are many excellent pilots in India, dont need to resolve to the usual verbal convulsions of a minority.
thank god there are expats to stop people like you ever seeing the inside of an airliner.
if you want to change the system, go into politics. this is not the place to wash your dirty linen.
but even more so, how immature and indisciplined you can be, just because you think your way is the right way to widebody nirvana.
the good ones, and there are many excellent pilots in India, dont need to resolve to the usual verbal convulsions of a minority.
thank god there are expats to stop people like you ever seeing the inside of an airliner.
if you want to change the system, go into politics. this is not the place to wash your dirty linen.
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Expats.....Indians.....Locals....hmmm....Expats.....Progress ion....Hmm....Expats
Hmm.....Expats.....Expats.....Progression......Expats......N O lOCALS....
MONEY....HMMM...TOO MUCH....NARROWBODY....WIDEBODY....HMMM.....
WIDEBODY! WIDEBODY! WIDEBODY!
If only you guyz realised that there are other issues (and I mean serious issues...LIKE ASK A POOR CHAP TRYIN TO CONVERT HIS LICENSE...ITS A NIGHTMARE!) in aviation in India.....Aviation here would not be such an unpleasurable experience(WHICH IT IS...NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DENY IT)
Hmm.....Expats.....Expats.....Progression......Expats......N O lOCALS....
MONEY....HMMM...TOO MUCH....NARROWBODY....WIDEBODY....HMMM.....
WIDEBODY! WIDEBODY! WIDEBODY!
If only you guyz realised that there are other issues (and I mean serious issues...LIKE ASK A POOR CHAP TRYIN TO CONVERT HIS LICENSE...ITS A NIGHTMARE!) in aviation in India.....Aviation here would not be such an unpleasurable experience(WHICH IT IS...NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DENY IT)
Last edited by Capt Apache; 6th Mar 2010 at 06:28.
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what you clowns, jimmy, shanks and the others are doing, is basically telling a worldwide audience what a **** country you come from, with a **** system, and airlines with unqualified **** pilots.
Basically speaking our efforts are to hold a government accountable for the promises made to its citizens. But no Sir, the kind of imagination you possess will not let you think of the positive side.
Democracies work openly, what happens in an open democracy is visible everywhere to a sensitive eye. Whether you believe it or not the the first two expat phase-out deadlines were a result of such a democratic process.
but even more so, how immature and indisciplined you can be, just because you think your way is the right way to widebody nirvana.
Seeing the tone and tenor of your reply I am glad that at least you could correctly spell 'indisciplined'.
the good ones, and there are many excellent pilots in India, dont need to resolve to the usual verbal convulsions of a minority.
thank god there are expats to stop people like you ever seeing the inside of an airliner.
if you want to change the system, go into politics. this is not the place to wash your dirty linen.
For what you know, I may already be in politics and inside an airliner as well. If one doesn't want to fall flat on face, one must at least know the limits to one's knowledge before arraying in comments.
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If only you guyz realised that there are other issues (and I mean serious issues...LIKE ASK A POOR CHAP TRYIN TO CONVERT HIS LICENSE...ITS A NIGHTMARE!) in aviation in India.....Aviation here would not be such an unpleasurable experience(WHICH IT IS...NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DENY IT)
Thanks Captain, I understand your concern and you can be assured that to wide (not wide-body) extent I share that with you. Of course there are serious issues other than the current issue in hand, there are issues of child labor, there are issues of worker exploitation, there are issues of tribals, some of these groups have resources and time to organised and work for their emancipation others didn't have these resources, I can go on and on, and I am sure you can provide a more exhaustive list too.
But tackling these issues is not by means of making a priority list and dedicating all the resources to the top item on the list. If an army of ants have to tackle an elephant, its futile for them to decide if they should go tail first or tusk first.
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rdr,
**** is there everywhere, inside you as well, as is very evident from your posts.
This country, as you say, may be full of ****, with ****ty airlines etc. but it is in this country where a lot of pilots with low time have attained the "wide body nirvana" as you say, in less than 4 years of being in an airline.
The jealousy reeks in your posts. You would have probably lived like a pauper trying to build time on a single engine, beating away desperately at every possible advertisement for piston or turbo prop RHS pilots etc all the while living on a burger flipping salary.
Dont simply bash "unemployed 200 hour wannabes", without knowing their background, financial status or where they come from, unless of course you're the typical retard who always ends up with his foot in his mouth everytime.
This does'nt really warrant any reply or retort .. anyway it is evident you're not getting enough of "it" at night or in your free time and you're bored and tired of using your hand all the time ! 
**** is there everywhere, inside you as well, as is very evident from your posts.
This country, as you say, may be full of ****, with ****ty airlines etc. but it is in this country where a lot of pilots with low time have attained the "wide body nirvana" as you say, in less than 4 years of being in an airline.
The jealousy reeks in your posts. You would have probably lived like a pauper trying to build time on a single engine, beating away desperately at every possible advertisement for piston or turbo prop RHS pilots etc all the while living on a burger flipping salary.
Dont simply bash "unemployed 200 hour wannabes", without knowing their background, financial status or where they come from, unless of course you're the typical retard who always ends up with his foot in his mouth everytime.
but even more so, how immature and indisciplined you can be, just because you think your way is the right way to widebody nirvana.
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FYI
Total number of hours just indicate experience quantitatively but I guess quality is more important in theend ..... so all this discussion that pilot A is better because of this much number of hours of experience is all nto very much justified...
Just a thought .....
Just a thought .....