Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
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Singaporeans
If you don't have the min requirements set out by SQ (Preferbly a degree and Physics & Maths at O levels), I suggest you forget about flying in S'pore. Don't waste your time and money unless you have around 300-400K to play around with. In S'pore the resources are very limited besides the airlines. Forget about instructing in S'porean flying clubs(The jobs already been taken by some grandfathers). Charter & private companies rather hire foreigners than locals. You can get a CPL licence from overseas and work as an instructor for a short period of time or so (for exmple in Australia). But you'll be paid peanuts anyway.
My advice to wannabe pilots, if you want to fly, get a PPL 1st. Career wise....thats another thing altogether. The 'risk factor' of not getting employed after spending 200-300k is VERY high. Think over it well. Some boyhood dreams just aren't worht it.
I'm a Singaporean instructor currently working in a Malaysian flying school. Take my advice mates.
My advice to wannabe pilots, if you want to fly, get a PPL 1st. Career wise....thats another thing altogether. The 'risk factor' of not getting employed after spending 200-300k is VERY high. Think over it well. Some boyhood dreams just aren't worht it.
I'm a Singaporean instructor currently working in a Malaysian flying school. Take my advice mates.
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Sorry to the burst the bubble...
My dear friend, Just to let you know Malaysian airline companies including those doing charter do NOT hire foreigners. Its a DCA regulation. Its been in force for the last 5 years. I have been working in region for some time now and let me tell you this.... There already a surplus of local cadet pilots here. They would not needing foreigners for a long long time.
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Spending 200k-300k?
Hi mercw123,
Would you kindly tell us how you derived at the sum of 200k-300k? Do you mean Ringgit? Would you like to share your flying experience with us?
cheers!
Would you kindly tell us how you derived at the sum of 200k-300k? Do you mean Ringgit? Would you like to share your flying experience with us?
cheers!
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How it can amount to 200-300K
First and foremost.... Lets talk in Malaysian Ringgit.
Option 1.
1)Cost of CPL/IR & Frozen ATPL 240k (We don't know the new figure for next year when M'sia adopts JAR syllabus).
2) As a self sponsered student with 200 hrs and lets say no degree = No foreign company would want to hire you.
3) So you want to do an AFI. You need 150 hrs PIC. Your 200 hrs syllabus in M'sia only has 100 hrs PIC. So you will have to clock extra 50 hrs @ an average of lets say RM 500/hr (Strating rate for an E150B) = 25k.
4) So now you want to do AFI rating = 40k.
5) If you are lucky, you get a job in an M'sian AFTO. Clock approx 700 hrs a year. 2 yrs maybe 1400 hrs (Don't forget we are talking about SE piistons here)
6) You apply for a job with a S'porean airline. Maybe you get SIA.. Maybe Tiger accepts you (you still have to pay for your own A320 rating, Approx 80k).
So how much does it add up to? Thats RM 385k = S$ 160k.
Option 2.
1) Go to Australia/ New Zealand / USA / Canada / ETC and spend S$ 50-60k.
2) Come back and try your luck with SQ. Out 100% chance with 200hrs, SQ in 10%. Don't bother about Tiger or Jetstar coz they don't hire freshies.
3) CAAS would not want to convert your licence unless you are hired by a S'porean company.
4) So now, you may want to instruct. Go back to where you got your licence and see if they want to hire you ( 10% Chance. Depends on the country's respective immigartion laws. Anyway an average instructor earns 30-40k Australian a year down under.)
5) So you may want to instruct in M'sia, bulid your hours and try the airlines. But hang on, DCA M'sia's coversion programme in an AFTO will cost 80k.
6) Then, if M'sian DCA permits, you as a foreigner can work in M'sia and see how it goes.
7) Total cost including Foreign licence, conversion & rating Approx S$110(B737 or A320 rating NOT included).
Alot of people have this idea that anyone can become an airline pilot as long as you have money. May be true in some countries. But not in Singapore. The industry is already moving towards degree holders fot pilots.
If you want to be an airline pilot, First go straighten out your O levels first. Maths, Physics, English & 2 others at an average of all Bs. Then get youself at least a relevant Diploma. Then try out SQ. Or if you have lots of cash go ahead and pursue your CPL. We'll leave the rest to chances.
Option 1.
1)Cost of CPL/IR & Frozen ATPL 240k (We don't know the new figure for next year when M'sia adopts JAR syllabus).
2) As a self sponsered student with 200 hrs and lets say no degree = No foreign company would want to hire you.
3) So you want to do an AFI. You need 150 hrs PIC. Your 200 hrs syllabus in M'sia only has 100 hrs PIC. So you will have to clock extra 50 hrs @ an average of lets say RM 500/hr (Strating rate for an E150B) = 25k.
4) So now you want to do AFI rating = 40k.
5) If you are lucky, you get a job in an M'sian AFTO. Clock approx 700 hrs a year. 2 yrs maybe 1400 hrs (Don't forget we are talking about SE piistons here)
6) You apply for a job with a S'porean airline. Maybe you get SIA.. Maybe Tiger accepts you (you still have to pay for your own A320 rating, Approx 80k).
So how much does it add up to? Thats RM 385k = S$ 160k.
Option 2.
1) Go to Australia/ New Zealand / USA / Canada / ETC and spend S$ 50-60k.
2) Come back and try your luck with SQ. Out 100% chance with 200hrs, SQ in 10%. Don't bother about Tiger or Jetstar coz they don't hire freshies.
3) CAAS would not want to convert your licence unless you are hired by a S'porean company.
4) So now, you may want to instruct. Go back to where you got your licence and see if they want to hire you ( 10% Chance. Depends on the country's respective immigartion laws. Anyway an average instructor earns 30-40k Australian a year down under.)
5) So you may want to instruct in M'sia, bulid your hours and try the airlines. But hang on, DCA M'sia's coversion programme in an AFTO will cost 80k.
6) Then, if M'sian DCA permits, you as a foreigner can work in M'sia and see how it goes.
7) Total cost including Foreign licence, conversion & rating Approx S$110(B737 or A320 rating NOT included).
Alot of people have this idea that anyone can become an airline pilot as long as you have money. May be true in some countries. But not in Singapore. The industry is already moving towards degree holders fot pilots.
If you want to be an airline pilot, First go straighten out your O levels first. Maths, Physics, English & 2 others at an average of all Bs. Then get youself at least a relevant Diploma. Then try out SQ. Or if you have lots of cash go ahead and pursue your CPL. We'll leave the rest to chances.
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Good Post
mercw123's info basically is correct but I would like to add on some more. Chinese idiom says, "pouring oil pouring vinegar". 
No Aussie PR = no work!
Wait long long...
F***ing TRUE!
Originally Posted by mercw123
4) So now, you may want to instruct. Go back to where you got your licence and see if they want to hire you ( 10% Chance. Depends on the country's respective immigartion laws. Anyway an average instructor earns 30-40k Australian a year down under.)
Originally Posted by mercw123
5) So you may want to instruct in M'sia, bulid your hours and try the airlines. But hang on, DCA M'sia's coversion programme in an AFTO will cost 80k.
6) Then, if M'sian DCA permits, you as a foreigner can work in M'sia and see how it goes.
6) Then, if M'sian DCA permits, you as a foreigner can work in M'sia and see how it goes.
Originally Posted by mercw123
Alot of people have this idea that anyone can become an airline pilot as long as you have money. May be true in some countries. But not in Singapore.
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HI GUYS,
that was quite a proposal and yes it true...
thats how cruelty in life as a Singaporean.
pardon me but try not groupthink and cheat the parents savings to acomplish something which has a very low succes rate.
Cheers,
that was quite a proposal and yes it true...
thats how cruelty in life as a Singaporean.
pardon me but try not groupthink and cheat the parents savings to acomplish something which has a very low succes rate.
Cheers,
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Good Post
Originally Posted by AiRBuS_380
HI GUYS, that was quite a proposal and yes it true...
Originally Posted by AiRBuS_380
thats how cruelty in life as a Singaporean.
Originally Posted by AiRBuS_380
pardon me but try not groupthink and cheat the parents savings to acomplish something which has a very low succes rate.
Originally Posted by AiRBuS_380
Cheers,
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Flying a dream, Airline Pilot a Job
Hi to all, I'm new in this forum. Just happened to chance upon it on the Net. From all the posts, it can be seen that there is a large number of Singaporeans who want to be pilots. Well first of I'll like to ask is: do you have the determination to be a pilot from the start and until the very end? Passion (which I agree) is an important factor too in a person wanting to be a pilot but determination itself edges ahead of passion. Why? Because pilot courses (regardless of what type) are tedious and expensive. I am not here to discourage those pilots-wannabes, I just want them to consider seriously before embarking on their pilot-training journeys. Won't it be even more regretful, wasteful, and disheartening to embark on the pilot training and only to give up halfway?
I am a Singaporean, currently obtaining a double degree in Business Aviation and Natural Resources Aviation in the US. I was an ex-pilot trainee for RSAF (got chopped in the initial pilot training in Australia) and did thought about joining SIA, but an SIA applicant with a degree will have a higher chance in getting through (not 100% though) so I went overseas to pursue a degree and found a university that offers aviation program.
I love flying and I don't really mind what kind or type of plane I have to fly. From a Piper Warrior to a SuperCub to a BeechCraft Bonanza, as long as I can fly I'm happy. Regarding about applying for SIA, give it a shot. If you get rejected then its alright. It ain't the end of the world for there are always other ways to go about reaching your goal. I'm not sure if I will apply with SIA after I have obtained my degree. Most likely I will remain in the US. It is not too difficult to get a job in the US or Canada, all you need to do is attend job seminars, aviation conventions, and pilots committee (be as thickskinned and outgoing as possible) and approach pilots and/or prospective employers, talk to them and give out your namecards to build contacts and to get them to remember you. That's what I did and I am promised internship during the summer. I am also trained in being IR, CPL, CFI & CFII.
I am a Singaporean, currently obtaining a double degree in Business Aviation and Natural Resources Aviation in the US. I was an ex-pilot trainee for RSAF (got chopped in the initial pilot training in Australia) and did thought about joining SIA, but an SIA applicant with a degree will have a higher chance in getting through (not 100% though) so I went overseas to pursue a degree and found a university that offers aviation program.
I love flying and I don't really mind what kind or type of plane I have to fly. From a Piper Warrior to a SuperCub to a BeechCraft Bonanza, as long as I can fly I'm happy. Regarding about applying for SIA, give it a shot. If you get rejected then its alright. It ain't the end of the world for there are always other ways to go about reaching your goal. I'm not sure if I will apply with SIA after I have obtained my degree. Most likely I will remain in the US. It is not too difficult to get a job in the US or Canada, all you need to do is attend job seminars, aviation conventions, and pilots committee (be as thickskinned and outgoing as possible) and approach pilots and/or prospective employers, talk to them and give out your namecards to build contacts and to get them to remember you. That's what I did and I am promised internship during the summer. I am also trained in being IR, CPL, CFI & CFII.
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Hi Nratpilot,
Its good to have passion for what you do. By the way do you have a green card in US since you are studying there. FAA requires pilots (domestic) to be a green card holder or ctizen prior to seeking for employment in Aviation industry.
2ndly, FAA ATP will not be your ticket to international airlines.... those FAA certification for pilots are mainly more useful when ur in the US. not the rest of the world for a "green" pilot.
FAA ceritifications are good for instrs or dispatchers but not to flying. Kindly do consider the money your spending prior to the usefulness of the licenses.
From you post i guess i understand that perhaps financial issues are not a burden on ur side. India have tons of FAA ATP, CFI around without a piloting job, not even a bush pilot....
just my thoughts.
great way to fly
Its good to have passion for what you do. By the way do you have a green card in US since you are studying there. FAA requires pilots (domestic) to be a green card holder or ctizen prior to seeking for employment in Aviation industry.
2ndly, FAA ATP will not be your ticket to international airlines.... those FAA certification for pilots are mainly more useful when ur in the US. not the rest of the world for a "green" pilot.
FAA ceritifications are good for instrs or dispatchers but not to flying. Kindly do consider the money your spending prior to the usefulness of the licenses.
From you post i guess i understand that perhaps financial issues are not a burden on ur side. India have tons of FAA ATP, CFI around without a piloting job, not even a bush pilot....
just my thoughts.
great way to fly
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Oh no... I'm not financially capable of paying off every training fee and college fee I incurr. I have to apply for scholarships, financial aids, and even loans just to finance myself. I even have a job on the campus to earn some allowances. And yes, I do agree with Airbus_380 about FAA's licenses not being recognized by other international airliners. Which I find it weird with global travel being so common nowadays, there should be a set of global standards for aviation everywhere.
Well that aside, like I said in my previous post I am not really pursuing a job in the airline industry. I won't mind trying it out but that is not my final goal in flying. Also I try not to narrow my options in the aviation industry by just focusing on being an airline pilot. I would rather open more "doors" for myself by taking up different flight category trainings (single-engine land and sea, multi-engine land and sea, ATP, helicopter, etc). Why settle for just being an airliner pilot? There are tons of aviation jobs out there other than airliner pilots (and military pilots - only for RSAF where their pilots are overrated) I know that airline pilot jobs are glamorous like military pilots but are you (I'm referring to the pilot-wannabes) able to shoulder the responsibilities of having hundreds of lives in your hands when you take the airline planes into the sky? Most air traffic accidents that had been investigated mostly had ruled pilot error to be the causes. Can you deal with that? If not, try looking into other aviation jobs or other jobs with lesser responsibilities.
I'm sorry that my posts seem to be discouraging pilot-wannabes about flying. But I have seen lots of people who want to learn flying at the beginning, only to give up halfway and complaint about it wasting their time, effort, and money when they could have invested in other stuffs. I am truly disgusted with those kinds of people. If you do have a passion for flying, find the determination to go all the way till the end regardless of the time, effort, and money needed or have thrown in. Don't be a loser and back out halfway.
Well that aside, like I said in my previous post I am not really pursuing a job in the airline industry. I won't mind trying it out but that is not my final goal in flying. Also I try not to narrow my options in the aviation industry by just focusing on being an airline pilot. I would rather open more "doors" for myself by taking up different flight category trainings (single-engine land and sea, multi-engine land and sea, ATP, helicopter, etc). Why settle for just being an airliner pilot? There are tons of aviation jobs out there other than airliner pilots (and military pilots - only for RSAF where their pilots are overrated) I know that airline pilot jobs are glamorous like military pilots but are you (I'm referring to the pilot-wannabes) able to shoulder the responsibilities of having hundreds of lives in your hands when you take the airline planes into the sky? Most air traffic accidents that had been investigated mostly had ruled pilot error to be the causes. Can you deal with that? If not, try looking into other aviation jobs or other jobs with lesser responsibilities.
I'm sorry that my posts seem to be discouraging pilot-wannabes about flying. But I have seen lots of people who want to learn flying at the beginning, only to give up halfway and complaint about it wasting their time, effort, and money when they could have invested in other stuffs. I am truly disgusted with those kinds of people. If you do have a passion for flying, find the determination to go all the way till the end regardless of the time, effort, and money needed or have thrown in. Don't be a loser and back out halfway.
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Hi there,
thanks for clarification. Anyway my view will be to make the decision properly and if you embark in it never regret.... yes there are many whom had the" been there done that" effects but in reality, self sponsoring is still in its ancient grounds in Asia as compared to US or EU. GA in Asia are for the high rollers whereby aviation transportation is merely dominated by airlines not GA as in the US or other parts of asia pacific.
Therefore, work opportunity is drastically reduced and with that amount money invested, will it be a high opportunity cost. I myself was a self sponsored fellow and i know the risk of failure at my point in time. Therefore, all Singaporean who wanted to be a pilot please do consider the fact of not getting a job and not being able to repay the huge loan. the cost from fly schools normally will exceed by another 20% to 30% due to marketing gimicks of stating the least hours required.
In my point of view, as a singaporean, i would suggest to just keep the hopes in cadetship and notthing else. there is only a handful of self-sponsored making into the airlines in our local context. due to age differences, (NS and 26Yrs rule) many are often too OLD when you embark in ur self funded ATPL.
Will any airline hire a 30plus 200hr fATPL holder? in th business sense, there are tons of 20yr old green fATPL holders in other region which will have a longer career life, benificial to the airline operating capita. Take a look at SQ, even the local carriers are seeking for other nationals at early 20s. whereby we get Cpts 30plus working in SQ for 10plus years.
just my thoughts...
great way to fly
thanks for clarification. Anyway my view will be to make the decision properly and if you embark in it never regret.... yes there are many whom had the" been there done that" effects but in reality, self sponsoring is still in its ancient grounds in Asia as compared to US or EU. GA in Asia are for the high rollers whereby aviation transportation is merely dominated by airlines not GA as in the US or other parts of asia pacific.
Therefore, work opportunity is drastically reduced and with that amount money invested, will it be a high opportunity cost. I myself was a self sponsored fellow and i know the risk of failure at my point in time. Therefore, all Singaporean who wanted to be a pilot please do consider the fact of not getting a job and not being able to repay the huge loan. the cost from fly schools normally will exceed by another 20% to 30% due to marketing gimicks of stating the least hours required.
In my point of view, as a singaporean, i would suggest to just keep the hopes in cadetship and notthing else. there is only a handful of self-sponsored making into the airlines in our local context. due to age differences, (NS and 26Yrs rule) many are often too OLD when you embark in ur self funded ATPL.
Will any airline hire a 30plus 200hr fATPL holder? in th business sense, there are tons of 20yr old green fATPL holders in other region which will have a longer career life, benificial to the airline operating capita. Take a look at SQ, even the local carriers are seeking for other nationals at early 20s. whereby we get Cpts 30plus working in SQ for 10plus years.
just my thoughts...
great way to fly
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Hi Ken0311,
May i enquire if you've completed your training in Perth, and if you have been offered contract with any of the SQ group upon completion of your training?
Thanks
May i enquire if you've completed your training in Perth, and if you have been offered contract with any of the SQ group upon completion of your training?
Thanks
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Any updates
Hi guys! Just bumping this thread to find out what the self sponsored cadets from SFC that have just finished are doing.
It is just in the news that CAAS and Tiger are trialing the MPL program at the end of this year and Jetstar is expanding their fleet.
Anybody got updates or grievances to share?
It is just in the news that CAAS and Tiger are trialing the MPL program at the end of this year and Jetstar is expanding their fleet.
Anybody got updates or grievances to share?
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nope, nothing from SQ. didn't expect anything given the current situation.
right now i'm just going to get a part-time job and wait for the situation to get better before i re-apply. also i will need to keep current with my IF....sigh.... more money....
anyone know where in singapore i can go on an IF nav somewhere and maybe shoot an ILS along the way?
anyway, i have a feeling something good may come along in the near future...i have not given up hope!
right now i'm just going to get a part-time job and wait for the situation to get better before i re-apply. also i will need to keep current with my IF....sigh.... more money....
anyone know where in singapore i can go on an IF nav somewhere and maybe shoot an ILS along the way?anyway, i have a feeling something good may come along in the near future...i have not given up hope!
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I seriously doubt you can shoot an ILS approach in Singapore, but definitely can in Malaysia and Thailand.
I am hopeful that the situation will improve very soon too!
I am hopeful that the situation will improve very soon too!
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yeah i was hoping i can fly out of Singapore (seletar) and do an IF Nav and an ILS in Malaysia somewhere. preferably in a baron too....
btw i posted on another thread whether any of you know where i can do a jet orientation or multi-crew co-operation course in Singapore or Malaysia. http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...urse-asia.html if you do know, please pm me.
thanks!
btw i posted on another thread whether any of you know where i can do a jet orientation or multi-crew co-operation course in Singapore or Malaysia. http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...urse-asia.html if you do know, please pm me.
thanks!
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Forget it...
If you are a self sponsered student with a CPL/IR (Frozen ATPL), your chances of getting a job is very slim. With barely 250 hours no one is going to even give you a 2nd look. The possibilty of someone getting employed is less than 20%. Thats 2 person for every 10(The other 8 can start selling shoes at BATA of Colgate at Guardian pharmacy)!
Sorry for sounding very negative but thats the raelity. In Singapore, we have tons of unemployed pilots. No joke. Its a very real and serious problem. Spend all your or your parents hard earned cash and no jobs.
SIA will hire foreign FO from Malaysia. No need to serve NS. Locals serve NS, pay for licence only to be told you have no X-factor! Absolutely hilarious.
Many Singaporeans now working oversesas now. 90% not as airline pilots, but as instructors, aerial work or charter.
One piece of advice, if you have friends interested to do flying:
1) Ask them to have min 5 Os with all Bs and above
2) At least a poly dip
3) Then try cadet programme
If you can't make it, don't waste time. Go pursue something else. No point spend so much money only to be heartbroken!
All the best.
Sorry for sounding very negative but thats the raelity. In Singapore, we have tons of unemployed pilots. No joke. Its a very real and serious problem. Spend all your or your parents hard earned cash and no jobs.
SIA will hire foreign FO from Malaysia. No need to serve NS. Locals serve NS, pay for licence only to be told you have no X-factor! Absolutely hilarious.
Many Singaporeans now working oversesas now. 90% not as airline pilots, but as instructors, aerial work or charter.
One piece of advice, if you have friends interested to do flying:
1) Ask them to have min 5 Os with all Bs and above
2) At least a poly dip
3) Then try cadet programme
If you can't make it, don't waste time. Go pursue something else. No point spend so much money only to be heartbroken!
All the best.
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SYFC
Allow me to shed some light on being freshie and trying to get employed by SYFC. This is what usually happens.
1) You finish your CPL/IR and walk into SYFC interview. If you make it, Step 2.
2) Assesment of your GH skills up to 3 hours (3 one hoour sorties). If you make it, you go for your AFI course.
3) Then you become AFI.
Sucess rate for freshie less that 20%. 90% get chopped at stage 2.
Why????
Because my dear friends, SYFC standard very high, RSAF stantard. No 200 hour freshie has the ability to handle a PA 28 or the CT4E as what is required. I personnaly know 3 people chopped in stage 2 and 3. One from MFA, Malacca... one from Massey,NZ & one from Bankstown,Australia.
In Singapore aviation, let me remind you, its very cruel and unforgiving. You dream to much, you will be asking for it!
1) You finish your CPL/IR and walk into SYFC interview. If you make it, Step 2.
2) Assesment of your GH skills up to 3 hours (3 one hoour sorties). If you make it, you go for your AFI course.
3) Then you become AFI.
Sucess rate for freshie less that 20%. 90% get chopped at stage 2.
Why????
Because my dear friends, SYFC standard very high, RSAF stantard. No 200 hour freshie has the ability to handle a PA 28 or the CT4E as what is required. I personnaly know 3 people chopped in stage 2 and 3. One from MFA, Malacca... one from Massey,NZ & one from Bankstown,Australia.
In Singapore aviation, let me remind you, its very cruel and unforgiving. You dream to much, you will be asking for it!
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SIA scholarship
Hey guys, sorry to interrupt. I also wanna work with Singapore Airlines ever since I was young. I'm not a Singaporean nor a resident of Singapore but I'm from Brunei but I have migrated to Australia, Perth to study. I will be going to an Aviation High School next year. The course is about 5 years and once graduate, I will be continuing the aviation course in Uni for another 3 years. My family background is not that rich so I'm planning to get SIA cargo scholarship. The reason I pick SIA cargo scholarship is because I can't get SIA commercial airlines scholarship because I'm not a singaporean. SIA cargo scholarship is opened to non-singaporeans so I can apply. Since I got 8 years of experience on aviation, is there a gurrantee I can get SIA cargo scholarship? I heard some of my friends say usually SIA's scholarship's first priority is to Singaporean then after that is non-singaporean. If I'm unlucky and didn't get the scholarship, does it mean I wasted 8 years learning aviation and wasted alot of parents money?