Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
TODAY papers...All singaporean pilots shld read on James Tan's comment.
Hello fellow aviators, Today paper has an interesting article commented by a fellow Singaporean pilot who simply cant land a job after graduating from Singapore Flying College.
I know of many local pilots here are of similar boat
...should comment on it!
cheers!
I know of many local pilots here are of similar boat
...should comment on it!cheers!
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Excellent letter
I loved James' letter. It is so accurate and also restrained.
I'm sure there are more gripes below the surface but he managed to control himself and not bring them up or dwell on them.
Good on ya, James!
I'm sure there are more gripes below the surface but he managed to control himself and not bring them up or dwell on them.
Good on ya, James!
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The Ugly Side of SIA (I)
TODAYonline My Career can't take-off (<~ read article, right click). James Tan is brave! Good!
Very often, it depends on the editor whether s/he allows such article to be publish or not. We have to give credits to the TODAY newspaper editor.
Very often, it depends on the editor whether s/he allows such article to be publish or not. We have to give credits to the TODAY newspaper editor.
Where is our recognition for serving NS??
I understood fully on the predicament of our fellow local pilots instantly when i read Mr. James Tan's article.
Many of our locals pilot are not being protected as how other pilots in our neighboring countries like Indonesia, Brunei and Malaysia, where their authorities enforced on local air operators, be it in GA or Airline industry to hire local low-time pilots over foreigner.
Hence, many of our pilots are stranded in catch 22 situation where they require hours to get a job but no local operators willing to give opportunity for job to low-time pilot here, unlike in other asian country.
Firefly, Transmile and Maswings have a hiring policy of 'Local First' to give opportunity to low-time pilots, as a Singaporean we are puzzled as to why our CAAS cannot direct the same rules applicable to our own national carrier, where majority of the pilots being recruited by SIA or Silk Air are foreigners and leave the local pilots to amaze in awe looking at others flying our big jets! That just simply not happening in our neighboring countries.
Many of our locals pilot are not being protected as how other pilots in our neighboring countries like Indonesia, Brunei and Malaysia, where their authorities enforced on local air operators, be it in GA or Airline industry to hire local low-time pilots over foreigner.
Hence, many of our pilots are stranded in catch 22 situation where they require hours to get a job but no local operators willing to give opportunity for job to low-time pilot here, unlike in other asian country.
Firefly, Transmile and Maswings have a hiring policy of 'Local First' to give opportunity to low-time pilots, as a Singaporean we are puzzled as to why our CAAS cannot direct the same rules applicable to our own national carrier, where majority of the pilots being recruited by SIA or Silk Air are foreigners and leave the local pilots to amaze in awe looking at others flying our big jets! That just simply not happening in our neighboring countries.
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Ugly Side of SIA (II)
I already knew this situation long time ago. Just that nobody voice out. I have one friend wrote in to the Straits Times forum page a few times, and it never got publish!
SIA does not take in their local people and I have commented this in pprune long time ago! Read Post ~> [#3][#4][#5][#7][#13]SIA trains/recruits foreigners rather their own citizens!
I have met well qualified mature Singaporeans who are NTU and NUS degree graduates with good pilot licence and SIA just do not take them in!
Something is wrong with SIA!
SIA does not take in their local people and I have commented this in pprune long time ago! Read Post ~> [#3][#4][#5][#7][#13]SIA trains/recruits foreigners rather their own citizens!
I have met well qualified mature Singaporeans who are NTU and NUS degree graduates with good pilot licence and SIA just do not take them in!
Something is wrong with SIA!
Last edited by thornycactus; 13th May 2010 at 03:28.
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Originally Posted by albatros19
Firefly, Transmile and Maswings have a hiring policy of 'Local First' to give opportunity to low-time pilots, as a Singaporean we are puzzled as to why our CAAS cannot direct the same rules applicable to our own national carrier, where majority of the pilots being recruited by SIA or Silk Air are foreigners and leave the local pilots to amaze in awe looking at others flying our big jets! That just simply not happening in our neighboring countries.
Singapore is not protecting their own citizens at all.
One typical example, by looking at NTU/NUS. These two Universities are flooded by foreigners! Many are bloody mainlander Chinese from China! Those local Polytechnic diploma holders with good grades can't even enter and they are forced to go overseas for further studies!
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@thornycactus
How do you justify a good pilot's license? From a good flying school? Is Singapore Flying College considered a good school by your standards? Getting a license is by no means difficult and not anymore is affordability really an issue in today's context. Thus everyone can get a license if they wanted to! After all, the pinch is at their parents' pockets.
SIA can't just take in any Tom Dick or Harry because they have a license. Won't the selection process be flawed in this way?
Anyway I won't question your judgement about those mature Singaporeans with "good pilot's license". I am sure you are an IP with thousands of hours in training to make that call.
Ugly Side of SIA (II)
I have met well qualified mature Singaporeans who are NTU and NUS degree graduates with good pilot licence and SIA just do not take them in!
Something is wrong with SIA!
I have met well qualified mature Singaporeans who are NTU and NUS degree graduates with good pilot licence and SIA just do not take them in!
Something is wrong with SIA!
How do you justify a good pilot's license? From a good flying school? Is Singapore Flying College considered a good school by your standards? Getting a license is by no means difficult and not anymore is affordability really an issue in today's context. Thus everyone can get a license if they wanted to! After all, the pinch is at their parents' pockets.
SIA can't just take in any Tom Dick or Harry because they have a license. Won't the selection process be flawed in this way?
Anyway I won't question your judgement about those mature Singaporeans with "good pilot's license". I am sure you are an IP with thousands of hours in training to make that call.
Last edited by autobrakes3; 13th May 2010 at 05:17.
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That's the problem though, they DO take in any Tom, Dick or Harry! 
I was at SFC for a few years as a private cadet and I've seen some SIA cadets that are far better off doing something else than flying. One complained saying, "this is just a job and i'm just doing it for the sake of doing it!"
I myself have a license but didn't make it after the final interview. Of course I was upset but I thought that's probably because I was not good enough. But after seeing the attitude of some of the SIA cadets, I must admit, I was a bit mad.
Perhaps not getting into SIA was a blessing in disguise as I'm now enjoying my flying and piling up the hours/sectors.
Well said James Tan, whoever you are!
I was at SFC for a few years as a private cadet and I've seen some SIA cadets that are far better off doing something else than flying. One complained saying, "this is just a job and i'm just doing it for the sake of doing it!"
I myself have a license but didn't make it after the final interview. Of course I was upset but I thought that's probably because I was not good enough. But after seeing the attitude of some of the SIA cadets, I must admit, I was a bit mad.
Perhaps not getting into SIA was a blessing in disguise as I'm now enjoying my flying and piling up the hours/sectors.
Well said James Tan, whoever you are!
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Autobrakes
Thanks for your reply Autobrakes.Quite helpful.
Yes, been offered a position in Sg and may not have to do the Perf A paper. Fingers crossed, don't want to see any of the ATPL papers again!!!
Yes, been offered a position in Sg and may not have to do the Perf A paper. Fingers crossed, don't want to see any of the ATPL papers again!!!
Local wings being clipped!
Fellow aviators!!
....hv a look at recent article by Alpa-S member!
TODAYonline | Business | Concern over SIA Cargo's hiring policy
....hv a look at recent article by Alpa-S member!
TODAYonline | Business | Concern over SIA Cargo's hiring policy
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Poor Singaporeans
From post #1930
Now, the young Indian nationals (from India) are naive. They thought that with a pilot licence will land them a job.
James Tan case is different. He is not stupid at all. After reading a couple times, I realised what he was trying to say. It is more than frustration and disappointment. He is not the only one encounter this. It is good that he brought this up to the media.
In any case, I have met good personality and characteristic Singaporean pilots, that just could not get in.
Also, read the Today newspaper article written by Conrad Raj.Obviously, SIA has gone very wrong! It is just that nobody dig out this issue. I am very glad that media help to expose this.
Originally Posted by hectigol
Just came across this article, am I right to say that SIA's interview process is designed to filter out candidates with not only flying potential but other qualities as well?
Is the author naive to think that S$140K will get him a flying job or is that the cruel truth?
Clean discussion without personal or policy bashing please.
Is the author naive to think that S$140K will get him a flying job or is that the cruel truth?
Clean discussion without personal or policy bashing please.
James Tan case is different. He is not stupid at all. After reading a couple times, I realised what he was trying to say. It is more than frustration and disappointment. He is not the only one encounter this. It is good that he brought this up to the media.
In any case, I have met good personality and characteristic Singaporean pilots, that just could not get in.
Also, read the Today newspaper article written by Conrad Raj.Obviously, SIA has gone very wrong! It is just that nobody dig out this issue. I am very glad that media help to expose this.
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Self Sponsored
Hey Guys,
Pretty new to this thread.....
Honestly speaking, I felt sorry for the SFC chap. It is true, singapore government do not protect their own labor industry. And there they complain that there isn't enuf skilled labor. A average pilot license in most ICAO countries would cost so much more that a Fxxx uni degree, not to mention EU. Isn't that skilled enuf?
Well if that is the case, I wouldn't at all recommend any one to fly in SFC. Think it a scandal like most other flight schools in the world. They just want to suck the flying hours outta the students and leave them standing dry and high. How unethical.
Another example is that STATA thing in melbourne. A complete scandal.. a few friends of mine got into the training finding it not just a disorganize trng school, screwed up trng, but also pretty expensive. They all promise candidate a job, at the end of the day what? All those enticing promises ending up with nothing..just a license.. ridicules n absurd.. Highly criticizes.
Oh the thing about SQ, I really hope they shut down the operation with the competition with the low cost. With this sort of mentality treatment on singaporean aviators.
To finalize, the singapore government should reflect on part of the legislation in skilled labor market protection. They need to act on it in a firm manner like most other neighboring countries eg malaysia, Philippines, taiwan, europe etc. Singapore is a small country unlike others, lotsa land and resources. They have to see that the airlines is the only resources to build up local professional pilots. Isn't that what we all learn, CRM? what a incapable bunch!
Pretty new to this thread.....
Honestly speaking, I felt sorry for the SFC chap. It is true, singapore government do not protect their own labor industry. And there they complain that there isn't enuf skilled labor. A average pilot license in most ICAO countries would cost so much more that a Fxxx uni degree, not to mention EU. Isn't that skilled enuf?
Well if that is the case, I wouldn't at all recommend any one to fly in SFC. Think it a scandal like most other flight schools in the world. They just want to suck the flying hours outta the students and leave them standing dry and high. How unethical.
Another example is that STATA thing in melbourne. A complete scandal.. a few friends of mine got into the training finding it not just a disorganize trng school, screwed up trng, but also pretty expensive. They all promise candidate a job, at the end of the day what? All those enticing promises ending up with nothing..just a license.. ridicules n absurd.. Highly criticizes.
Oh the thing about SQ, I really hope they shut down the operation with the competition with the low cost. With this sort of mentality treatment on singaporean aviators.
To finalize, the singapore government should reflect on part of the legislation in skilled labor market protection. They need to act on it in a firm manner like most other neighboring countries eg malaysia, Philippines, taiwan, europe etc. Singapore is a small country unlike others, lotsa land and resources. They have to see that the airlines is the only resources to build up local professional pilots. Isn't that what we all learn, CRM? what a incapable bunch!
Last edited by hijack; 13th May 2010 at 18:09.
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seriously?! Has this become a SIA bashing thread?
Ok i do feel for "James Tan". Having spent all that money hoping for a shortcut into the company and ended up with nothing. He must have picked up one of those "How to get an airline job for dummies". Btw typical Singaporean move isn't it? Step 1) Look for a shortcut 2) if the shortcut doesn't work, write into the press to whine 3) Complain to MP if the press tactic didn't work out well.
Its funny how some self sponsored Singaporeans claim to have more passion and soul than others. These are the same guys whom clearly claim to fly because they love to and not for the sake of it. Fair enough, we cannot doubt their words. Ironically, when these guys don't make it into SIA, they start to cry foul play.
Is it really the end of the world for these "passionate aviators?" If so, i apologise because i didn't realise that world aviation only consisted of SIA.
There are a lot of aviation jobs out there if one truly loves to fly. Perhaps not with a major airline but GA ,chartered or scenic. In fact, I hear that there is a Singaporean (fresh grad from Massey) flying with Susi Air at the moment.
Honestly, I don't see how SIA is to be blamed for James' predicament. We have only heard one side of the story and surely theres more than meets the eye.
Ok i do feel for "James Tan". Having spent all that money hoping for a shortcut into the company and ended up with nothing. He must have picked up one of those "How to get an airline job for dummies". Btw typical Singaporean move isn't it? Step 1) Look for a shortcut 2) if the shortcut doesn't work, write into the press to whine 3) Complain to MP if the press tactic didn't work out well.
Its funny how some self sponsored Singaporeans claim to have more passion and soul than others. These are the same guys whom clearly claim to fly because they love to and not for the sake of it. Fair enough, we cannot doubt their words. Ironically, when these guys don't make it into SIA, they start to cry foul play.
Is it really the end of the world for these "passionate aviators?" If so, i apologise because i didn't realise that world aviation only consisted of SIA.
There are a lot of aviation jobs out there if one truly loves to fly. Perhaps not with a major airline but GA ,chartered or scenic. In fact, I hear that there is a Singaporean (fresh grad from Massey) flying with Susi Air at the moment.
Honestly, I don't see how SIA is to be blamed for James' predicament. We have only heard one side of the story and surely theres more than meets the eye.
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Hi Ortho Brakes.
I thought they have anti skids too. It can get limiting when inop but who gives a xxxx. Right. This is not an SIA bashing treat. It's facts.
My life of career wasn't meant for SQ, and never had it come across my mind. It just raise a concern to me as a overseas expats from singapore where a mate of mine mail me this article. The main reason as to why SIA was never on my mind was and still is bcs stewardess standards are way too off. It doesn't at all impress me with that Seniority CRM. Was that's why they had that crash off Taiwan. what about those scraps off the runways. BTW, SQ was never on my mind when I first got my license. I writing here to show my concern on the aviation sector in singapore, pretty hopeless in labor industry (overall). Have you heard of Benz Break? 办事不利！！
You do sound patriotic from these parts,"Ok i do feel for "James Tan". Having spent all that money hoping for a shortcut into the company and ended up with nothing. He must have picked up one of those "How to get an airline job for dummies". Btw typical Singaporean move isn't it? Step 1) Look for a shortcut 2) if the shortcut doesn't work, write into the press to whine 3) Complain to MP if the press tactic didn't work out well." Arr u a damage controller?
Constructive criticism is not an issue for James now. The real facts is the industry itself. Why Singaporean would leave and work elsewhere? Would you ever think they will come back if offered better jobs overseas? Please, ortho-breaks. This thread is not just about scenic flights or GA, it is meant for professional aviators. Please stick to James on the local industry issue. It's not about MPs' or lame tactics. It is abt aviation industries in singapore and the overall industries.
I've personally been away from singapore too long. As a singaporean, I respect that sort of courage that lad James bought up on press. Not every singaporean have that guts to do it. Please support the cause.
I thought they have anti skids too. It can get limiting when inop but who gives a xxxx. Right. This is not an SIA bashing treat. It's facts.
My life of career wasn't meant for SQ, and never had it come across my mind. It just raise a concern to me as a overseas expats from singapore where a mate of mine mail me this article. The main reason as to why SIA was never on my mind was and still is bcs stewardess standards are way too off. It doesn't at all impress me with that Seniority CRM. Was that's why they had that crash off Taiwan. what about those scraps off the runways. BTW, SQ was never on my mind when I first got my license. I writing here to show my concern on the aviation sector in singapore, pretty hopeless in labor industry (overall). Have you heard of Benz Break? 办事不利！！
You do sound patriotic from these parts,"Ok i do feel for "James Tan". Having spent all that money hoping for a shortcut into the company and ended up with nothing. He must have picked up one of those "How to get an airline job for dummies". Btw typical Singaporean move isn't it? Step 1) Look for a shortcut 2) if the shortcut doesn't work, write into the press to whine 3) Complain to MP if the press tactic didn't work out well." Arr u a damage controller?
Constructive criticism is not an issue for James now. The real facts is the industry itself. Why Singaporean would leave and work elsewhere? Would you ever think they will come back if offered better jobs overseas? Please, ortho-breaks. This thread is not just about scenic flights or GA, it is meant for professional aviators. Please stick to James on the local industry issue. It's not about MPs' or lame tactics. It is abt aviation industries in singapore and the overall industries.
I've personally been away from singapore too long. As a singaporean, I respect that sort of courage that lad James bought up on press. Not every singaporean have that guts to do it. Please support the cause.
Last edited by hijack; 13th May 2010 at 20:02.
Sa Caa, Dca, Dgca
Any of you, fellow aviators (Singaporean Local Pilot) who would agree that our CAAS should and ought to follow the honorable examples of SA CAA, DCA, DGCA and many other aviation authority around the globe to protect the interest of local pilots in our own country particularly, Singapore, pertaining the employment opportunity of low-time pilots against foreign pilots, should express your concern here :
TODAYonline | Voices | My career can't take off
We are gathering names for supports kindly PM or write your concerns.
Cheers!
TODAYonline | Voices | My career can't take off
We are gathering names for supports kindly PM or write your concerns.
Cheers!
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It's MAKE it or BREAK it!
Hi guys,
James Tan's personal account is not a unique case. Sad to say, majority of the self sponsored guys have gone through similar experiences. There are some who managed to secure the pilot job on local soil, others who remain persistent and the rest who let destiny takes over.
The Singapore aviation industry is small but booming. Small in terms of limited airline setup and competition. Booming in terms of growing ground aviation support and maintenance services. Having mentioned that, you will find that we are all left with very limited options for the pilot job in Singapore. On the other hand, there are more ground aviation jobs available.
Irregardless of whichever hiring policy SIA incorporates, it's really beyond our control and capabilities to change anything. Irregardless of whether the flying school is able to recommend job interviews anot, it's objectives are still to make business and to graduate students with the necessary license at the end of the day. Irregardless of whichever path the self sponsored person eventually takes, he or she has to first fully understand the reality of Singapore aviation and the employment possibilities before embarking on the self sponsored route.
Given the uncertainties in our local pilot industry, it is advisable to stay mentally prepared for any worst consequence and to establish backup plans beforehand.
James Tan's article is indeed a reality wake up call for everyone of us, the self sponsored guys.
James Tan's personal account is not a unique case. Sad to say, majority of the self sponsored guys have gone through similar experiences. There are some who managed to secure the pilot job on local soil, others who remain persistent and the rest who let destiny takes over.
The Singapore aviation industry is small but booming. Small in terms of limited airline setup and competition. Booming in terms of growing ground aviation support and maintenance services. Having mentioned that, you will find that we are all left with very limited options for the pilot job in Singapore. On the other hand, there are more ground aviation jobs available.
Irregardless of whichever hiring policy SIA incorporates, it's really beyond our control and capabilities to change anything. Irregardless of whether the flying school is able to recommend job interviews anot, it's objectives are still to make business and to graduate students with the necessary license at the end of the day. Irregardless of whichever path the self sponsored person eventually takes, he or she has to first fully understand the reality of Singapore aviation and the employment possibilities before embarking on the self sponsored route.
Given the uncertainties in our local pilot industry, it is advisable to stay mentally prepared for any worst consequence and to establish backup plans beforehand.
James Tan's article is indeed a reality wake up call for everyone of us, the self sponsored guys.
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Hello Yoz.
You seems new.
I do not agree with you as I felt it is a unique case as it's already in the papers. It is very selfless for you to comment on that poor chap as he has already been thru such a long way.
It is not the hiring policies about SIA. It is how the government take cares of it's own. Setting high standards does not mean it's good. Flying a plane is another truck driver deal, it all about attitude, determination, safety orientated and customer service. It just reflect how lazy these bumps are, would prefer to train someone who fit in the profile. Take note, the drop out of these "profile" in that singapore school in aust is pretty high. So they are not that smart after all. Is that a waste of investments?
Uncertainties? The only uncertainties in this local pilot industry is "market protection". So be clear. It is overall a very unique case.
James Tan article is telling us, how locals are taking care of locals.
You seems new.
I do not agree with you as I felt it is a unique case as it's already in the papers. It is very selfless for you to comment on that poor chap as he has already been thru such a long way.
It is not the hiring policies about SIA. It is how the government take cares of it's own. Setting high standards does not mean it's good. Flying a plane is another truck driver deal, it all about attitude, determination, safety orientated and customer service. It just reflect how lazy these bumps are, would prefer to train someone who fit in the profile. Take note, the drop out of these "profile" in that singapore school in aust is pretty high. So they are not that smart after all. Is that a waste of investments?
Uncertainties? The only uncertainties in this local pilot industry is "market protection". So be clear. It is overall a very unique case.
James Tan article is telling us, how locals are taking care of locals.