Thompson Engine Failure in ALC 23/10

[leeleal]

Hi there,
As an atc working in Alicante, I would like to point a few things out. Although I work in the twr and the event was first reported when airborne on app frequency, we followed closely the situation and coordinated tightly until the plane was transfered back on final.
The PAN PAN call is perfectly recognised in Spain, although it is considered as a request for priority (normally for medical reasons, short of fuel or any other situation that implies a safe flight but with a real need of a hurry). Thus if that was the call the crew made, thatīs what they were given: priority. The aircraft never declared emergency and thatīs why the service given once landed seemed to be deficient. It takes a while to move any special airport resources if there is no clear emergency call from the tower, aircraft or any other recognised source. Believe me, the ATC thought it was a simple engine failure with barely any risk (at least thatīs what the serene captianīs voice suggested) until the fire crew reported how they found the engine.
However, I do not want you to think Iīm blaming the crew. I positively believe they did a really great job and that they wouldnīt have hesitated to request any other help they thougt necessary. Iīm just trying to explain how things worked out. Since I really think I learn a lot from reading all your posts on what really happened, I thought some of you would like to know how it all went from the other side.
By the way, of course I know there is still plenty of room for improvement in our airport (as in many other places), but I firmly believe we are doing a good job.

Hasta luego.

[Fredairstair]

if the last posting is really from someone who works in ALC twr.....

That is the single most interesting comment I've ever read on this site. Thanks/Gracias

Fred (soon to practice a panicky RT voice)

[tightcircuit]

The message is clear; Mayday first and then downgrade to a Pan when everything is under control. This should work anywhere in the world.

[hedgedweller]

The return of hedgedweller

Thank you Arrowhead for one of the very few responses that did not make me feel worse than I already did. Exactly that which you have said, as a paying customer of the airline I expect, hope, truly believe that the engine should not explode under any circumstance whilst I am on the plane. I read the replies to my posting and cried!!! For all your responses can I firstly state that I am not MAN but WOMAN, maybe that in itself explains my emotional response to flames and sparks exploding from the engine at my side. Sorry it took so long to reply, but your remarks really did upset me. I have never the less flown on a monthly basis with Thomsonfly inspite of your cruel remarks. Just glad I wasn't on the BA plane that landed almost on the runway in London this week. No I wasn't bothered by the food in Alicante, just the way we were all treated after the event, during the event and the fact that the plane exploded by my ear - hopefully never to be repeated!! See you all again at the Blackpool in Spain Alicante as one reply put it and hopefully have a safe landing in Cardiff. I notice there is a thumb smiley, but not a finger!!!

[StopStart]

You just have to know where to look...



Sounds like you weren't treated very well in Alicante but then one does get what one pays for I suppose. As for your concern about engines blowing up in your ear, the only way avoid similar things happening in the future is never use anything mechanical ever again

[hedgedweller]

The finger

Thanks - the treatment of passengers NOT at Alicante but on the plane and on this forum begins and ends in style - thanks for showing me the way and the finger - I obviously didn't look hard enough or know where to look for anything!!!

[hec7or]

hedgedweller

Well done for using this site to find out what went wrong.

Hopefully the company will have also explained things to you and you should now have a better picture of what occurred.

Believe it or not, pilot's don't actually get a lot of training in passenger handling and we only train with our own cabin crew once in a blue moon so it is very unlikely that we will be able to keep everyone happy and informed about a situation which does not go according to plan!

Every person on board an aircraft experiencing a technical problem will have a different perception of what is actually happening based on the information available to them and the best we can do is try to keep everyone as fully informed as we can.

Unfortunately not everybody will respond to the same information in the same way. Not all of the people on board will have seen the flames coming from the engine and will only need to be reassured that the aircraft is returning to the airport for technical reasons and it would not serve any good purpose to go into too much detail.

The pilots regularly fly the simulator on one engine and for the vast majority of us this is the only experience we will ever have of this sort of technical failure and it is done as a routine exercise twice per year. The PR side of it is only really addressed in general terms and we have no training standards which apply.

Sorry for the unkind comments, but they do seem to highlight the gap in understanding between the general public and the pilot community and we do ourselves no favours at all by remaining ignorant of passenger perceptions.

Not sure how we can change this

[hedgedweller]

Not sure how you can change this?!

Thank you for your kind response, I still have had no explanation of what happened to me on that day, apart from a private message from someone today who is offering me information and I have asked him to help me.

I, believe it or not and I don't expect you to really after the aggression and hatred I drew from this forum by my seemingly innocent and yet emotional posting (I had thought I was going to die, so I felt as if emotion was appropriate) am professionally accepted as being a very good communicator with excellent skills in the art of diffusing situations and marketing expertise. So if you need any assistance in the art of linking pilot and passengers communications please let me know. One thing I will educate the forum in and Thomsonfly, the company itself for free, is that How I was treated by the airline, the staff and this site and its posters is - This is definately not the way to treat passengers!!!!

Please let me know if you require information and education in how to communicate effectively, empathetically, sympathetically and have a good flyside/after scaring the bjesus out of the passengers manner - I will be more that willing to help - first hand experience often shows you how it should have been done - especially if what was done was not what you needed - communication is a four way cylic thing - talk, listen, understand - and if you don't get all three the fourth comes into play - question and the three begin again!!! Thanks again for you response - I am flying again in ten days and still absolutely terriifed by my experience - you can always tell where I have sat now, there are nail holes in the armrests and teeth marks in the seat in front. For everyones information I used to be this childishly excited about flying before the incident - some of us just can't help being a little emotional!!!

[hedgedweller]

Sorry if my posting is not posted to your reply

I have replied to you posting but the system has decided to check it out before it is posted for some reason - has hedgedweller got herself a bad name?

[Gentle Climb]

Hedgedweller

I don't think that you have taken too much notice of much of the good advice that you have been given on this thread. I can't agree that you have been subject to cruelty anywhere on the site, but you have been given information on what happened and most posters have agreed that it would not have been a pleasant experience for you, despite the fact that that the situation in the air was dealt with professionally.
I haven't seen anybody laughing at you or mocking your 'emotional' response to the event. That would be cruel. There is even a message from one of the chaps who looks after the aircraft involved inviting you to contact him/her if you wish! You seem very inclined to read what you want to read and to ignore the vast majority of helpful postings which have been made with your interests at heart, despite your 'who is responsible?' tirade.
I think that you should read the thread again, try to take a more objective, calmer view of the way you have been treated and perhaps you may form a slightly more balanced opinion.
Finally, the last sentence of my original post contained a tongue in cheek reference to Alicante which you seem to have taken very badly. I won't be changing my opinion of the place quickly, but to highlight that line and to ignore (what I considered to be) helpful advice prior to the remark is a little disappointing.

[hedgedweller]

The person who invited me to chat and have an explanation has been very helpful indeed, and the whole point of freedom of speech is that you take from it what you find and the parts that hit you most. My first posting has been taken in the same light, some of the 'chaps' took it on themselves to think that I was complaining about the food at Alicante and completely disregarded the fact that I was upset and emotional because I was very frightened. You say I didn't take your comment before the tongue in cheek comment as useful, and that if I look over the threads with a more 'balanced' view i might see things differently - How do you think I am going to take that comment?!!!!! Maybe if you read the postings and looked at it from a complete un knowlegable point of view, and thought about the fact that I had just been scared out of my wits and convinced I was going to die (and I was not after compensation, just understanding) I still even after the explanation of one of your comrades (who has a much better understanding of the human race and its feelings than you will ever have) find your comments and attitude leaving much to be desired. And that is my balanced opinion. I am not too stupid to understand most of what was said even in your comrades very intriquate description of your work and I am not too poor to notice when I am being insulted. I will treat your remarks with the contempt they deserve. I cannot fly a plane, but I do know how to treat people - a lesson you could learn well.

[Gentle Climb]

Hedgedweller

I'm really not going to get involved in an website argument with you. Whatever you are trying to find in order to satisfy you, I sincerely hope that you find it, although it may not be available here. You will know that flying is a very safe method of transportation and that you have been unlucky with your experience. The statistical chances of you experiencing a repeat are miniscule and may provide you with some comfort.
I should also confirm in clarification that I do not hold a professional position as a pilot although that may change. I would not wish you to taint the pilot community with your personal views of my attitudes...

Good luck.

[Mark35]

Hedgedweller

I haven't commented before but I think this debate is suffering from mis-communication and the fact you area woman and most people here are men!

There are 2 issues - first, the engine failure and second, the quality of customer service afterwards.

No-one argues about the second matter but this is a pilots forum and people are here to talk about flying planes not after sales service! As far as the engine failure is concerned, it is clearly frightening but the fact that a plane can handle a 50% loss in power and land should give you some reassurance about flying. However, the reality is that humans were not made to fly and if we do insist on hurtling through the sky in metal tubes at 500mph there is a risk and while that risk is small it does exist!

Recent incidents have shown how the professionalism of pilots has ensured that people have survived such incidents. No British plane in commercial aviation has crashed with deaths since Kegworth in the late 80s

[yeoman]

Hedgedweller

Telling people that they have got it wrong and then telling them that you are the answer to all their problems isn't likely to engender a sympathetic response particularly as your audience is made up of people trained to put injured aeroplanes on the ground in the correct sequence of part numbers rather than in corporate care! Nobody likes being criticised, even if warranted!

I greatly regret that you were scared witless and can understand your unhappiness. Please remember that it won't have been a great day out for the crew either and that having used their skill and training to get you down safely they would probably have had a crashing pschycological let down too. At exactly that point in time they woul;d also have had to cope with some very scared passengers, an airport that wasn't expecting 235 odd people to arrive unannounced, a bunch of tour operator reps who were up to their eyeballs in dealing with the inbound passengers and no doubt many phone calls to base, not the least of which would have been an urgent need to get you guys organised.

Having done it, I can assure you that they will have done all they could but sometimes it just isn't enough.

Finally, I'm delighted you are back to flying and to reassure you, all 2 engined airliners are capable of flying on one engine even at their maximum designed take off weight. They would not be certified if they couldn't. As you ultimately pay my salary, I am doubly pleased!! The chances of this happening to you again are minute so happy landings.

[nojh]

B757 eng failure

Another screwed up RB211 from RR
I have official photos and an apology,yes sir,I have.Sometimes RR forget to bolt the LP turbine to the HP turbine,
As was the case PH-TKZ landed in Athens by wrecker Rackham.

[JamesT73J]

Regarding the smell of fuel, I've noticed it on the RR 747-400 and the 757, and also the CF6-engined 767 but not during taxi, always just after the engine start, for about 10 seconds. It's never really bothered me (one of those smells that always makes me think of flying). Just put it down to a quirk in the pneumatics of certain aircraft.

[flite101]

last word perhaps : )

To Hedgedweller

I am sorry to hear about your experience and that off all the other passengers, AND THAT OF THE FLIGHT CREW & CABIN CREW ... who all train for these "unlikely" events ... they are just as human as you are, and perhaps they didn't show it, but rest assured that they might have been also scared shtless, ever though of that?

Perhaps the problem lies with Ground Staff being not "direct" employees of the airline in question, outsourcing does have it disadvantages as well

i travel alot by air, and even though i always get nervouse before a flight, i know from the moment that i step aboard that plane, that i'm in good hands ... the chances of something happening are remote, and flying is still the safest way to travel, me dying on the way to and from the aiport is what concernes me the most these days!!

good luck with your claim, as it would interesting to see what compensation the airline and/or their insurance policy will give you!!

PS
not a pilot, not a F/A ... a mere insurance broker that specialises in aviation!!!

[lomapaseo]

Another screwed up RB211 from RR
I have official photos and an apology,yes sir,I have.Sometimes RR forget to bolt the LP turbine to the HP turbine,
As was the case PH-TKZ landed in Athens by wrecker Rackham.

Wow! forgot to bolt it??

Could you post a link to the pictures or PM me a link

[prb46]

hedgedweller

You could use the ferry instead!
At least the passengers who were taken to safety in a gale force 10 were
given a cup of coffee.All they said was how proud they were about the
safety services and how lucky to be alive.The crew on your flight did a great
job,as did the crew on the ferry.
How did you find out about pprune anyway unless you have a journalistic
interest

[hedgedweller]

How?

GOOGLE It is how most people find things these days, the Internet is open to everyone as is this forum, so be prepared for females, people who can't fly etc to look for an explanation of what went wrong and find you!!!