Thompson Engine Failure in ALC 23/10
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A simillar thing happened to me on BY 75 in Dec 2000 G-BYAP
The surge occured 30 secs into the flight and was (for the 10 secs or so that the banging noise lasted) very scary.
Once the noise stopped I remember thinking "well we're still in the air."
As an avid enthusaist I told myself that we were ok and was reasured by the announcement form the flight-deck.
The problem came when I tried to fly home the follwing week, I was vey nervous and stayed nervous for about a year but am ok now.
In terms of how it was handled on the ground it was ok as we retured to LGW but I would imagine how it would be diffcult to get the right staffing levels at an outstation at short notice
The surge occured 30 secs into the flight and was (for the 10 secs or so that the banging noise lasted) very scary.
Once the noise stopped I remember thinking "well we're still in the air."
As an avid enthusaist I told myself that we were ok and was reasured by the announcement form the flight-deck.
The problem came when I tried to fly home the follwing week, I was vey nervous and stayed nervous for about a year but am ok now.
In terms of how it was handled on the ground it was ok as we retured to LGW but I would imagine how it would be diffcult to get the right staffing levels at an outstation at short notice
The bigger the engine the more powerful the surge and flame flash. Scary as hell to the passengers but not a big deal if dealt with by the pilot (retard to clear multiple surges). However if left in a surge condition for 10 or so surges then you may end up permently breaking the engine (varies by engine model).
Many many years ago there were some engines that broke after only a single surge, but almost all engines today are designed to last out at least 10 high power surges before cashing in. That of course assumes that the engine hasn't already broke and the surge was secondary
Many many years ago there were some engines that broke after only a single surge, but almost all engines today are designed to last out at least 10 high power surges before cashing in. That of course assumes that the engine hasn't already broke and the surge was secondary
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: third rock from the sun
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By the way that was a pretty good video of the Manchester bird strike. They should use it on recurrent to give an idea of what is involved after you have landed. In the sim itīs usually back to the beginning of the runway, but real life is different.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hedgedweller, you've obviously had a worrying time and haven't coped very well with it, its understandable, the unexpected food service provided to you and 229 others in the airport sounds shocking...
As others have said all mechanical things have the chance of failing but I can guarantee the checks carried out on the aircraft you flew on would have been far more stringent than those on the car you jumped into at Cardiff and then drove home on the motorway (?) at 70mph without giving it a second thought - when was the last thorough check, up to 12 months ago?
Did you check the brakes worked, pads, shoes and lines ok? How about the engine, every moving part checked? And the fuel system all ok, no leaks or rubbing hoses? Hopefully the seat belts? I suppose you thought how you'd deal with a puncture at 70mph? Or a fire on the back seat? Was your passenger alert to any risks and dangers to help you out in a tricky situation? etc etc. Probably not, you may have just endangered countless of individuals on your way home due to your lack of attention - shocking, what a cock up that would have been.
Get over yourself, I'm far safer in the air than on a motorway with yours and everyone elses unsafe vehicles - how dare you all endanger me!
Educate yourself before making such ridiculous posts. Good luck with the claim.
As others have said all mechanical things have the chance of failing but I can guarantee the checks carried out on the aircraft you flew on would have been far more stringent than those on the car you jumped into at Cardiff and then drove home on the motorway (?) at 70mph without giving it a second thought - when was the last thorough check, up to 12 months ago?
Did you check the brakes worked, pads, shoes and lines ok? How about the engine, every moving part checked? And the fuel system all ok, no leaks or rubbing hoses? Hopefully the seat belts? I suppose you thought how you'd deal with a puncture at 70mph? Or a fire on the back seat? Was your passenger alert to any risks and dangers to help you out in a tricky situation? etc etc. Probably not, you may have just endangered countless of individuals on your way home due to your lack of attention - shocking, what a cock up that would have been.
Get over yourself, I'm far safer in the air than on a motorway with yours and everyone elses unsafe vehicles - how dare you all endanger me!
Educate yourself before making such ridiculous posts. Good luck with the claim.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds like the crew did a good job.
Hedgedweller that post was really exciting, how much ĢĢĢ are you going for? You'll need to change much of your post as some of it isn't true.
Hedgedweller that post was really exciting, how much ĢĢĢ are you going for? You'll need to change much of your post as some of it isn't true.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
blue up - comment
With 20 knots op the chuff, there will be exhaust fumes blown back into the aircon intakes (belly of the 757)
Hedgedweller IMHO should be asking why the engine failed, a report will hopefully be in the public domain eventually.
Me bad! I think we all know where I was going with it but I failed to fink it through. A mix of standard 757 Oil smell plus the fumes blown back into the intake and passed though the packs.
Thanks, chaps.
Thanks, chaps.
Torquil Proot
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Free At Last
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hedgedweller,
First of all, I'm sorry for the trauma you have gone through. Secondly, if you are looking for someone to blame, it could have been me! I have over many years , changed numerous components both on engine and airframe of that particular aircraft. I can assure you that all Professional Aircraft Engineers take your safety as paramount. If it isn't safe to fly, it doesn't! Simple as that.
Just to confirm 757 do not have fuel jettison option.
If you want to ask anymore questions please Pm me.
Well done to the crew.
First of all, I'm sorry for the trauma you have gone through. Secondly, if you are looking for someone to blame, it could have been me! I have over many years , changed numerous components both on engine and airframe of that particular aircraft. I can assure you that all Professional Aircraft Engineers take your safety as paramount. If it isn't safe to fly, it doesn't! Simple as that.
Just to confirm 757 do not have fuel jettison option.
If you want to ask anymore questions please Pm me.
Well done to the crew.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
757's with RR engines frequently have a fuel smell in the cabin after engine start. (11+ yrs experience 1990-2007)
Occasionally the F/A's call but by now they realize it's a temporary issue.
Occasionally the F/A's call but by now they realize it's a temporary issue.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nirvana..HAHA..just kidding but,if you can tell me where it is!
Posts: 350
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think what our passenger hedgedweller has said should maybe be taken in another light.
When the passengers are scared they need information....without this information many of them, especially on a schedule service, will decide not to fly...and consequently demand their bags offloaded.
The post handling of an "event" can have a huge effect on the passengers will to try again.
I have found that a good post event explanation, either on-board or, in the terminal afterwards is really an important follow-up action. Also,leaving some cabin staff with the passengers, in the terminal, makes them feel that they have not been abandoned, and frequent updates, even if nothing has changed,will endear them to you and your company. It is possible to turn a potentially negative event into positive publicity for the company if handled like this.But....be honest
Hedgedweller, are you declaring that your captain did not communicate with you, because, if you are, I find that very hard to believe?
Packs off departures are also responsible for fumes entering the cabin,extra noise from the door seals due to the unpressurized status. I always wonder if it is worth explaining to pax before take-off in this case although never have so far.
When the passengers are scared they need information....without this information many of them, especially on a schedule service, will decide not to fly...and consequently demand their bags offloaded.
The post handling of an "event" can have a huge effect on the passengers will to try again.
I have found that a good post event explanation, either on-board or, in the terminal afterwards is really an important follow-up action. Also,leaving some cabin staff with the passengers, in the terminal, makes them feel that they have not been abandoned, and frequent updates, even if nothing has changed,will endear them to you and your company. It is possible to turn a potentially negative event into positive publicity for the company if handled like this.But....be honest
Hedgedweller, are you declaring that your captain did not communicate with you, because, if you are, I find that very hard to believe?
Packs off departures are also responsible for fumes entering the cabin,extra noise from the door seals due to the unpressurized status. I always wonder if it is worth explaining to pax before take-off in this case although never have so far.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think most of you are all taking this far too personally. Passenger expects normal flight. Passenger gets huge flames streaking outside his window, and fears the worst because this doesnt happen very often, its clearly not right, and probably the only pictures of aeroplanes hes ever seen after a fire include large holes. Hes doing over a couple of hundred miles per hour strapped to something on fire, carrying tonnes more fuel, and up in the air. I am not surprised that after the event he is upset and wants to know the cause, and who to blame. Engines dont "just occasionally blow up", and he has a right to some sympathy and some answers.
Indeed, there may be someone to blame, as there has been in most aviation accidents. Then again there may not. But thats no reason to attack him.
Indeed, there may be someone to blame, as there has been in most aviation accidents. Then again there may not. But thats no reason to attack him.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Looking for the signals square at LHR
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Indeed, there may be someone to blame, as there has been in most aviation accidents. Then again there may not. But thats no reason to attack him."
Probably not. But had hedgedweller been a little more mature and a little less intemperate in his original post, he might have received a more positive response.
Nevertheless, it is clear that he and, presumably, the other passengers on the same flight had been badly let down; essentially by the ground people it would seem. The lack of adequate explanation of what had transpired has engendered a loss of his confidence in air travel - hardly to be wondered at. Perhaps the foregoing technical observations have gone some way to restoring some of this lost confidence in what is the safest form of transport.
That the flight crew handled the situation well is not disputed. But might it not have been a good idea if, after landing, the Captain gave a brief, non-technical explanation of events over the PA and then went back for a "personal appearance" before pax hit the jetway? This sort of PR is invaluable and it might have provided considerable reassurance to hedgedweller and the others.
GQ.
Probably not. But had hedgedweller been a little more mature and a little less intemperate in his original post, he might have received a more positive response.
Nevertheless, it is clear that he and, presumably, the other passengers on the same flight had been badly let down; essentially by the ground people it would seem. The lack of adequate explanation of what had transpired has engendered a loss of his confidence in air travel - hardly to be wondered at. Perhaps the foregoing technical observations have gone some way to restoring some of this lost confidence in what is the safest form of transport.
That the flight crew handled the situation well is not disputed. But might it not have been a good idea if, after landing, the Captain gave a brief, non-technical explanation of events over the PA and then went back for a "personal appearance" before pax hit the jetway? This sort of PR is invaluable and it might have provided considerable reassurance to hedgedweller and the others.
GQ.
Depends on company policy. May not be PERMITTED to discuss such probs with pax without prior permission.
Also, pax may well be offloaded and in the terminal before FD have had their last call to Ops etc. After all, the FD wouldn't have known for sure what had happened to the engine until they'd been downstairs for a look.
BTDT
Also, pax may well be offloaded and in the terminal before FD have had their last call to Ops etc. After all, the FD wouldn't have known for sure what had happened to the engine until they'd been downstairs for a look.
BTDT
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Looking for the signals square at LHR
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Depends on company policy. May not be PERMITTED to discuss such probs with pax without prior permission.
Also, pax may well be offloaded and in the terminal before FD have had their last call to Ops etc. After all, the FD wouldn't have known for sure what had happened to the engine until they'd been downstairs for a look."
I expect you're right, blue up. I was just thinking aloud which is always an unwise thing to do.
GQ.
Also, pax may well be offloaded and in the terminal before FD have had their last call to Ops etc. After all, the FD wouldn't have known for sure what had happened to the engine until they'd been downstairs for a look."
I expect you're right, blue up. I was just thinking aloud which is always an unwise thing to do.
GQ.
No prob.
I was speaking from personal experience of the EXACT same scenario after I had a left engine multiple surge in one of the sister 757s some years ago. I got down the steps to find the cowls opened by a local eng and the fire crew. After getting a good (ex eng) eye of the lack of damage I returned to the FD and got involved in about 40 minutes of phone calls.
Once on the ground and off the plane the pax are in the hands of the local handling agent and maybe a few company holiday reps who may have zero experience of handling such events.
I was speaking from personal experience of the EXACT same scenario after I had a left engine multiple surge in one of the sister 757s some years ago. I got down the steps to find the cowls opened by a local eng and the fire crew. After getting a good (ex eng) eye of the lack of damage I returned to the FD and got involved in about 40 minutes of phone calls.
Once on the ground and off the plane the pax are in the hands of the local handling agent and maybe a few company holiday reps who may have zero experience of handling such events.