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Thanks ThS, glad to be back!
Overstress & Darkstar, Qualifications required to do CCs job are none??? OK, its true that CC dont require a CPL/ ATPL, a degree, or a Multi-X licence.
They just need 5 GCSEs above grade C, a qualification in Travel & Tourism, hospitality or nursing, some customer service experience, resilience, patience.......
Qualifications are more than just on paper.
For anyone who feels cabin crew are bottom of the pile, could you do a their job? Would you want to? Could you still smile and keep your cool after serving and assisting pax for 12 hours? Politely dealing with someone laying on the floor staring up your skirt, in front of onlookers? Could you console a man who has just left his comatosed wife in an overseas hospital to fly home to make funeral arrangements? How about calming down the passenger who has just witnessed her daughters first epileptic fit?
No qualification in the world could have helped me deal with those things. They are qualities.
I have paper qualifications from when I had a job out of flying, (which incidentallly is how I got my car) but I have chosen not to use them and to have a job I enjoy instead.
So if when I have made it through the Tina Turner rendition and SEP, CST and AvMed exams and I'm finally online, and anyone hears me whining about anything onboard, please slap me and remind me why I chose to be here!!
I thank you
Overstress & Darkstar, Qualifications required to do CCs job are none??? OK, its true that CC dont require a CPL/ ATPL, a degree, or a Multi-X licence.
They just need 5 GCSEs above grade C, a qualification in Travel & Tourism, hospitality or nursing, some customer service experience, resilience, patience.......
Qualifications are more than just on paper.
For anyone who feels cabin crew are bottom of the pile, could you do a their job? Would you want to? Could you still smile and keep your cool after serving and assisting pax for 12 hours? Politely dealing with someone laying on the floor staring up your skirt, in front of onlookers? Could you console a man who has just left his comatosed wife in an overseas hospital to fly home to make funeral arrangements? How about calming down the passenger who has just witnessed her daughters first epileptic fit?
No qualification in the world could have helped me deal with those things. They are qualities.
I have paper qualifications from when I had a job out of flying, (which incidentallly is how I got my car) but I have chosen not to use them and to have a job I enjoy instead.
So if when I have made it through the Tina Turner rendition and SEP, CST and AvMed exams and I'm finally online, and anyone hears me whining about anything onboard, please slap me and remind me why I chose to be here!!
I thank you
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overstress and Darkstar - very sad - you are obviously a whole bunch of fun to be with - not.
Go and tell that to all your colleagues you fly with over the next few weeks.
You are so up yourselves its hard to believe you actually exist.
So , you REALLY want your airline to go down to your local dole office, and pick up the first few people they come across for your next new entrant intake do you?
The criteria for cabin crew is actually quite high, and includes a good o level/equivalent education, responsibilty, trust, pride in appearance, good health, and a whole lot more.
And the one thing you two sadly lack - people skills .
You may use a few neurons at the beginning/end of a flight, but for the bit in between you sit there monitoring a radio .
, we are physically doing a whole lot more and reacting to a host of varying situations and demands.
Why is it that some pilots (probably like you) are invariably scared /or in complete denial when it comes to any situation beyond your f/d door??
Probably because they'd rather leave it to the cabin crew - after all they are the best equipped to deal with many trying circumstances.
And you are SO wrong about the cars - there are some right heaps in the crew car park
I've been there 10+yrs , have a 9yr old ford with 143,000 on the clock and no hope of changing it in the foreseeable future.
Its the flight crew who have the latest Audi,BMW,Mercs etc.....
A few c/c, but mostly girls that have married well!
The majority of c/c can't even afford to buy their own home.
You are very blinkered in your outlook, and i hope any crew you fly with pick up on this and treat you with the full contempt you so fully deserve.
Go and tell that to all your colleagues you fly with over the next few weeks.
You are so up yourselves its hard to believe you actually exist.
So , you REALLY want your airline to go down to your local dole office, and pick up the first few people they come across for your next new entrant intake do you?
The criteria for cabin crew is actually quite high, and includes a good o level/equivalent education, responsibilty, trust, pride in appearance, good health, and a whole lot more.
And the one thing you two sadly lack - people skills .
You may use a few neurons at the beginning/end of a flight, but for the bit in between you sit there monitoring a radio .
, we are physically doing a whole lot more and reacting to a host of varying situations and demands.Why is it that some pilots (probably like you) are invariably scared /or in complete denial when it comes to any situation beyond your f/d door??
Probably because they'd rather leave it to the cabin crew - after all they are the best equipped to deal with many trying circumstances.
And you are SO wrong about the cars - there are some right heaps in the crew car park
I've been there 10+yrs , have a 9yr old ford with 143,000 on the clock and no hope of changing it in the foreseeable future.
Its the flight crew who have the latest Audi,BMW,Mercs etc.....
A few c/c, but mostly girls that have married well!
The majority of c/c can't even afford to buy their own home.
You are very blinkered in your outlook, and i hope any crew you fly with pick up on this and treat you with the full contempt you so fully deserve.
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overstress & Darkstar
reading your points on here makes me sick.. and full of anger..
but hey! will not happen.. think positive..!
First of ALL.. reg your car ideas...
The TT's, Boxters, SLK's and all other expensive cars I see in the car park.. funny enough.. it's all people in pilot uniforms!!
so could it be that CC are pretending to be Pilots??? NOT..
sure some of them are driven by Stwss's (prob bought it themselves or married well. or CSD's or Pursers (who's been working sometime)
I drive an 14 year old Fiat, which I love..
GET a fat reality check man!
EASY to be CC?? let's see.. 6 weeks of training, tests more or less all day.. out of the 6, 3 weeks SEP.. tests everyday.. AVMED!
you name it!!!
and before that, interviews.... HARD interviews..
And then you claim that you can become a Purser or CSD after 1 year???? wow... I've NEVER heard that.. mabye I should check at work.. hummmmm..
As far as I know.. it's a minimum of 15 yrs seniority to apply for incharge role.. check it out yourself...
Simply the best??? at Cranebank??? never happend to me..
could it be you heard it in your own little head???
stormin norman
don't think so....
however some of the managers who were paid at home.. could apply for crew on a 6-9 months temp contract.. on their salary they had a Waterworld.. (that was what the rumour said)
reading your points on here makes me sick.. and full of anger..
but hey! will not happen.. think positive..!
First of ALL.. reg your car ideas...
The TT's, Boxters, SLK's and all other expensive cars I see in the car park.. funny enough.. it's all people in pilot uniforms!!
so could it be that CC are pretending to be Pilots??? NOT..
sure some of them are driven by Stwss's (prob bought it themselves or married well. or CSD's or Pursers (who's been working sometime)
I drive an 14 year old Fiat, which I love..
GET a fat reality check man!
EASY to be CC?? let's see.. 6 weeks of training, tests more or less all day.. out of the 6, 3 weeks SEP.. tests everyday.. AVMED!
you name it!!!
and before that, interviews.... HARD interviews..
And then you claim that you can become a Purser or CSD after 1 year???? wow... I've NEVER heard that.. mabye I should check at work.. hummmmm..
As far as I know.. it's a minimum of 15 yrs seniority to apply for incharge role.. check it out yourself...
Simply the best??? at Cranebank??? never happend to me..
could it be you heard it in your own little head???
stormin norman
don't think so....
however some of the managers who were paid at home.. could apply for crew on a 6-9 months temp contract.. on their salary they had a Waterworld.. (that was what the rumour said)
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If your return on your £500 BA shares does not digest too well with you...SELL THEM! If your do not flying BA..we never forget you have a choice! Stick that where the sun does not shine..JEEEEZ..the mentality of our managers..(no doubt you are one) never ceases to amaze me! What a loser you must be in industry! If you cannot even chose the shares that perform well on your portfolio!
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Anti-ice, Ths, you don't know me yet you flame me in a pilots forum. You can have no idea how I relate with crew as you do not know who I am. Your replies display a worryingly thin-skinned attitude for someone dedicated to customer service.
The CAA do not require 15 years seniority for 'in-charge' crew, how do you think start-up airlines do it?
My car remarks were meant to be light-hearted in tone but serious in content. You missed the main points I made and I still worry for the future of the airline when attitudes like these prevail.
The CAA do not require 15 years seniority for 'in-charge' crew, how do you think start-up airlines do it?
My car remarks were meant to be light-hearted in tone but serious in content. You missed the main points I made and I still worry for the future of the airline when attitudes like these prevail.
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sure we don't know who you are....
but since i work for BA, as crew
and I KNOW that it takes up to 15 yrs to reach Purser or CSD.
just so you know...
and aswell...
we feel we have a desire to defend something we think it's nobodys business other than the community inside BA.
So if you are outside, you can HAVE no idea of what's going on.
And I know some of them on here and I know, we give and knows customerservice.
Just so you know....
but since i work for BA, as crew
and I KNOW that it takes up to 15 yrs to reach Purser or CSD.
just so you know...
and aswell...
we feel we have a desire to defend something we think it's nobodys business other than the community inside BA.
So if you are outside, you can HAVE no idea of what's going on.
And I know some of them on here and I know, we give and knows customerservice.
Just so you know....
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This whole thread has degenerated into a total slanging match.
I really don´t think that anyone is going to get anything constructive out of it so shouldn´t we just knock it on the head now?
I work for BA, I want to keep my job, feed my kids and do the best I can each day I´m at work. If we all do the same our passengers and staff will get the most out of the whole experience of travelling with us, and as a result we should make it through one of the most difficult periods in aviation history.
We work for the same outfit, as a team, so let´s start/keep up the good work!
Regards to ALL.
I really don´t think that anyone is going to get anything constructive out of it so shouldn´t we just knock it on the head now?
I work for BA, I want to keep my job, feed my kids and do the best I can each day I´m at work. If we all do the same our passengers and staff will get the most out of the whole experience of travelling with us, and as a result we should make it through one of the most difficult periods in aviation history.
We work for the same outfit, as a team, so let´s start/keep up the good work!
Regards to ALL.
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I am a cabin crew member and have been for 18 years.
I , like many others, feel offended and insulted by a lot that has been said against us on this forum . However, I also feel that some of my colleagues have let the side down with some badly argued points, resorting to insults never did anyone any good.
This whole thread should not be a ' them and us' thread at all. As I have said before, the money offered to us was not demanded by a crew member, just as the shortage of crew was not down to crew sickness...despite all the rumours.
There are and always will be good crew who will go out of their way to keep the customer happy, and if anyone remembers a course we all did TOGETHER several years ago, within this company , at one time or another, we are all each others customers!
At the same time there are inflexible, money grabbing people in ALL departments and all walks of life who, sadly, create bad and lasting impressions .
I personally feel that swiss-toni has a lot to answer for. His/her post has deepened a divide which already existed to some extent between different parts of the BA community. . . and for what reason? none other than jealousy.
Surely the blame lies with the managers who got the figures wrong -
As for all the threats, 'I'm better than you' , infantile and downright insulting name calling... no matter what dept you are from, or what walk of life, you impress noone and let only yourself down with such weak debating skills.
I find being referred to as posh acting, bollock talking, OTT dressing and expense creaming particularly offensive...
I also find it sad that people who claim cabin crew are uneducated, easily replaceable minions... implying themselves to be on a higher scale of intelligence and of much more use to the world... actually have to resort to such drivel...
But I suppose that confirms my belief that an education can be bought and worked for.... a personality however .. you either have or dont have.
Final opinion, for me then, is that there are good crew and bad crew.. just as there are good and bad managers and good and bad pilots....
these arguments achieve nothing, especially when so many points are misinterpreted and down right inaccurate.
The crew who do their job well do, imho, earn every penny. Those who make a stand for the sake of it, who are 100% inflexible yet have no idea what they're standing against or why... don't deserve their job!
( For the record.. we do not stay in 5 star hotels .... and our allowances / box payments / destination payments etc do not afford us porche boxters etc unless we live way beyond our means! )
I , like many others, feel offended and insulted by a lot that has been said against us on this forum . However, I also feel that some of my colleagues have let the side down with some badly argued points, resorting to insults never did anyone any good.
This whole thread should not be a ' them and us' thread at all. As I have said before, the money offered to us was not demanded by a crew member, just as the shortage of crew was not down to crew sickness...despite all the rumours.
There are and always will be good crew who will go out of their way to keep the customer happy, and if anyone remembers a course we all did TOGETHER several years ago, within this company , at one time or another, we are all each others customers!
At the same time there are inflexible, money grabbing people in ALL departments and all walks of life who, sadly, create bad and lasting impressions .
I personally feel that swiss-toni has a lot to answer for. His/her post has deepened a divide which already existed to some extent between different parts of the BA community. . . and for what reason? none other than jealousy.
Surely the blame lies with the managers who got the figures wrong -
As for all the threats, 'I'm better than you' , infantile and downright insulting name calling... no matter what dept you are from, or what walk of life, you impress noone and let only yourself down with such weak debating skills.
I find being referred to as posh acting, bollock talking, OTT dressing and expense creaming particularly offensive...
I also find it sad that people who claim cabin crew are uneducated, easily replaceable minions... implying themselves to be on a higher scale of intelligence and of much more use to the world... actually have to resort to such drivel...
But I suppose that confirms my belief that an education can be bought and worked for.... a personality however .. you either have or dont have.
Final opinion, for me then, is that there are good crew and bad crew.. just as there are good and bad managers and good and bad pilots....
these arguments achieve nothing, especially when so many points are misinterpreted and down right inaccurate.
The crew who do their job well do, imho, earn every penny. Those who make a stand for the sake of it, who are 100% inflexible yet have no idea what they're standing against or why... don't deserve their job!
( For the record.. we do not stay in 5 star hotels .... and our allowances / box payments / destination payments etc do not afford us porche boxters etc unless we live way beyond our means! )
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Lao Che
You appear on a discussion forum and on your first posting you demand the closure of a thread...
There are a couple of options
1. You are genuinely new, and do not understand the purpose of PPRuNe
2. You are a lurker who has just registered with a second (or third) username to protect your more usual one
Could you enlighten us?
You appear on a discussion forum and on your first posting you demand the closure of a thread...
There are a couple of options
1. You are genuinely new, and do not understand the purpose of PPRuNe
2. You are a lurker who has just registered with a second (or third) username to protect your more usual one
Could you enlighten us?
aka Capt PPRuNe
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***WARNING***
I've just removed a series of posts because a minority element of posters are unable to act in a reasonably mature and intelligent manner. If a few of you are going to throw your toys out of the pram at the slightest provocation or demand handbags at 20 paces just because you are unable to figure out that someone is trying the oldest trick in the book of 'divide and rule' then you just don't belong on this forum taking part in what started out as an interesting but provocative debate.
Now children, those of you who want to carry on in a mature and civilised manner, take a deep breath, count to ten and then put your thoughts to print. It is extremely disappointing that a minority are able to ruin an intelligent debate by 'losing it' so easily.
Now children, those of you who want to carry on in a mature and civilised manner, take a deep breath, count to ten and then put your thoughts to print. It is extremely disappointing that a minority are able to ruin an intelligent debate by 'losing it' so easily.
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Well said Danny, and let's hope this put's a stop to the many comments and derisory remarks aimed at all your colleagues. . . . the cabin crew.
A good point made just before , was that there are good crew and bad crew.. just as there are good and bad managers and good and bad pilots....
Some of these in ALL departments are either fairly paid , badly paid or overpaid.
Certainly all the c/c friends i have made in the last 5-10 years have no hope of ever owning their own home at the current rate, surely there is a message in that.
Many of them can't even afford to run a car - old or new.
Those that the original post refered to, are very much in the minority, but as i said - you could find that anywhere.
Alot of what is on this thread is divide and rule,very misleading, and written by some very misguided people.
Remember, we are in the flying in the face of a world crisis security wise, and so working together and promoting good CRM is a good thing for all.
(Hopefully never), but we may depend on it one day. . . .
A good point made just before , was that there are good crew and bad crew.. just as there are good and bad managers and good and bad pilots....
Some of these in ALL departments are either fairly paid , badly paid or overpaid.
Certainly all the c/c friends i have made in the last 5-10 years have no hope of ever owning their own home at the current rate, surely there is a message in that.
Many of them can't even afford to run a car - old or new.
Those that the original post refered to, are very much in the minority, but as i said - you could find that anywhere.
Alot of what is on this thread is divide and rule,very misleading, and written by some very misguided people.
Remember, we are in the flying in the face of a world crisis security wise, and so working together and promoting good CRM is a good thing for all.
(Hopefully never), but we may depend on it one day. . . .
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I can only relate what I know. I live next door to a 'old contract' CSD. We meet and socialise often. He drives a 02 Reg Merc SLK and he has said many times that he earns more than the 'drivers', even he has a rye grin when he re-iterates this every now and again. On visual facts alone, I found it hard to disbelieve him.
The new CC starter rates are perhaps the beginning of bench-marking with the Airline CC community, but I don't know what EZY or Ryanair CC earn compared to BA. Can anyone enlighten PPrune?
The majority of CC do a great job, however, the militant minority seem hell bent on throwing spanners in the works.
The original thread was about Crew being given money to work 'one down'. Most areas in BA and many other business's face staff shortfalls every day, but those who are left with the extra workload do not get a penny extra and to be honest, don't expect to be offered anything extra - in this economic climate, extra work and less reward seems to be the norm, although it doesn't make it right.
As unpalatable as it may be to Swiss Tonni, BA has got itself into it's own mess with agreements that were ludicrous in the first place. However, has BA got the will and courage to change these agreements whilst knowing the militant minority are licking their lips knowing they hold the ultimate card up their sleeve?
The new CC starter rates are perhaps the beginning of bench-marking with the Airline CC community, but I don't know what EZY or Ryanair CC earn compared to BA. Can anyone enlighten PPrune?
The majority of CC do a great job, however, the militant minority seem hell bent on throwing spanners in the works.
The original thread was about Crew being given money to work 'one down'. Most areas in BA and many other business's face staff shortfalls every day, but those who are left with the extra workload do not get a penny extra and to be honest, don't expect to be offered anything extra - in this economic climate, extra work and less reward seems to be the norm, although it doesn't make it right.
As unpalatable as it may be to Swiss Tonni, BA has got itself into it's own mess with agreements that were ludicrous in the first place. However, has BA got the will and courage to change these agreements whilst knowing the militant minority are licking their lips knowing they hold the ultimate card up their sleeve?
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Well after umpteen pages of text what can we conclude?? It seems as if being cabin crew is a fantastic job and everybody wants to be one or at least have their pay packet, so if its all that its cracked up to be why doesnt every one apply??? obviously the pilots are not happy with their lot and management are not happy with their role in the company, so come and join us because we are obviously the work group that you are all jealous of, so if ya cant beat em join em!!
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The new CC starter rates are perhaps the beginning of bench-marking with the Airline CC community, but I don't know what EZY or Ryanair CC earn compared to BA. Can anyone enlighten PPrune?
Reasonable pay in comparison to other airlines, but extremely fatiguing due to nature of our operation (that applies to FD too).
cheers
N.B. Figures for LTN-based crew, that seem to predominantly operate 4-sector days + nightsops
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Spoke to one of our new contract LHR long haul crew today. For them it works out at about £30k gross after six years or so. Doesn't seem shockingly over the odds to me .....
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I am told other airlines compensate cc for being crew down.
Not sure if this is true. Either way, I agree its nice to offer some reward for extra hard work but perhaps vouchers worth a lower value towards duty frees or a beauty salon would be more cost effective and just as suitable? Or travel vouchers so at least the value would be spent back into the company!
Why give cash? Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt complain if it was my paypacket, but CC dont suffer any financial problems as a result of the crew shortage, would it be acceptable to receive (if anything) a treat or benefit instead to help de-stress? Shouldn't the reward fit the reason for the reward?
It should be fair. Flight deck don't work harder if the cabin is a member down, but then they may have to work harder than the cabin crew in some situations.
We all have to be prepared to be flexible for 'operational circumstances' but rewards should be given for many of these unusual circumstances to promote fairness. How these are measured is another matter.
Am I making any sense or have I got my over-reasonable head on today??!
Not sure if this is true. Either way, I agree its nice to offer some reward for extra hard work but perhaps vouchers worth a lower value towards duty frees or a beauty salon would be more cost effective and just as suitable? Or travel vouchers so at least the value would be spent back into the company!
Why give cash? Dont get me wrong, I wouldnt complain if it was my paypacket, but CC dont suffer any financial problems as a result of the crew shortage, would it be acceptable to receive (if anything) a treat or benefit instead to help de-stress? Shouldn't the reward fit the reason for the reward?
It should be fair. Flight deck don't work harder if the cabin is a member down, but then they may have to work harder than the cabin crew in some situations.
We all have to be prepared to be flexible for 'operational circumstances' but rewards should be given for many of these unusual circumstances to promote fairness. How these are measured is another matter.
Am I making any sense or have I got my over-reasonable head on today??!
Last edited by sixmilehighclub; 4th Apr 2004 at 20:52.
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just give me the cash i can buy my own treats thanks very mutch!! infact why not stop paying cabin crew cash at all pay us in vouchers then we can be true second class citizens .
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Sorry marlowe, didnt mean to insult you. Hey like I said, If it was my paypacket I wouldnt complain!!!
Cash bonuses are great, but after reading how just a handful of peoples feelings about it, surely there needs to be a smarter, fairer, lower expenditured solution.
If my idea makes you feel second class instead of the first class you are now, then I apologise, take the cash!! (and lend me a fiver so I can buy myself a gag!! lol)
Six
Cash bonuses are great, but after reading how just a handful of peoples feelings about it, surely there needs to be a smarter, fairer, lower expenditured solution.
If my idea makes you feel second class instead of the first class you are now, then I apologise, take the cash!! (and lend me a fiver so I can buy myself a gag!! lol)
Six