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Darkstar, you may live next to an 'old contract' CSD, but they only make up probably 1% of the BA cabin crew community.......,
so anything they earn will not be wholly representative
Remember , approx 6000 cabin crew have joined on the new contract, starting on £8,900 with poor increments and now make up approx 50% of the BA c/c workforce.
I can't see many of them getting a mortgage in W London on that.
Duh, yes 4x (£14,000) , oh yes sir/madam , we can offer you a mortgage of £56,000. Great .
AJ say's that 'Easyjet' crew earn between £1400-1700 / month in a busy summer month in their first year.
Since 1997, i have only ONCE taken home more than £1600 at BA ,full-time, and i have been there over 10 years , so all this talk of being overpaid is in many cases ........cobblers.
Marlowe says "It seems as if being cabin crew is a fantastic job......"
Well
A) anyone can apply that fits the criteria
B) Yes , it has its good points (in my view the other crew, 90% of them are great fun to be with).........but then >>>>>> >
If you don't want to be giving out hot breakfasts at 6am everyday,
or cleaning toilets on a packed nightflight,
or dealing with people vomiting,
or 4-5 hour delays,
or total sleep deprivation at times,
or 70% of your life is away from home,
or having to adhere to very strict guidelines,
or flying the face of adversity with constant terror threats,
or being verbally abused fairly regularly/treated with contempt,
or putting up with stodgy un-nutritious food all the time,
or regularly working 12hr+ shifts with about 7-8 hrs at home in between
or . . . the list could go on. . .
Yes it can be a great job,but there can be many situations that aren't so good too .
Like anything in life ,we have a choice .
It's up to you to make yourself happy.
so anything they earn will not be wholly representative
Remember , approx 6000 cabin crew have joined on the new contract, starting on £8,900 with poor increments and now make up approx 50% of the BA c/c workforce.
I can't see many of them getting a mortgage in W London on that.
Duh, yes 4x (£14,000) , oh yes sir/madam , we can offer you a mortgage of £56,000. Great .
AJ say's that 'Easyjet' crew earn between £1400-1700 / month in a busy summer month in their first year.
Since 1997, i have only ONCE taken home more than £1600 at BA ,full-time, and i have been there over 10 years , so all this talk of being overpaid is in many cases ........cobblers.
Marlowe says "It seems as if being cabin crew is a fantastic job......"
Well
A) anyone can apply that fits the criteria
B) Yes , it has its good points (in my view the other crew, 90% of them are great fun to be with).........but then >>>>>> >
If you don't want to be giving out hot breakfasts at 6am everyday,
or cleaning toilets on a packed nightflight,
or dealing with people vomiting,
or 4-5 hour delays,
or total sleep deprivation at times,
or 70% of your life is away from home,
or having to adhere to very strict guidelines,
or flying the face of adversity with constant terror threats,
or being verbally abused fairly regularly/treated with contempt,
or putting up with stodgy un-nutritious food all the time,
or regularly working 12hr+ shifts with about 7-8 hrs at home in between
or . . . the list could go on. . .
Yes it can be a great job,but there can be many situations that aren't so good too .
Like anything in life ,we have a choice .
It's up to you to make yourself happy.
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From a purely personal point of view I don’t see what the problem here is. I am on an old contract that meant that a lot of my pay was so called red ringed, and no one can now earn as much as I do as an engineer. So some cabin crew are on the old contract and some on the new with less pay.
All I can say is good luck to the folk on the old contracts and I hope you have many more years to go, as for the people that are on the new ones what’s your problem you knew what you were getting when you started so why whinge about the pay and conditions now.
As for the people who are looking across trades so what if someone gets more than you do, their agreements are totally different than yours so get used to it, and to each there own and that is the way it should be.
The so called managers that live and work in palace water world where nothing gets done, should stop trying to stir things up across the airline and get back to doing what they are paid for, or do they get bonus points towards their next car for starting things like this thread. There again maybe that’s all they can do because they certainly don’t seem able to manage, maybe it’s their way of actually getting a name for themselves besides the one’s they are normally called by the people who do actually work in this airline.
End of rant for now
All I can say is good luck to the folk on the old contracts and I hope you have many more years to go, as for the people that are on the new ones what’s your problem you knew what you were getting when you started so why whinge about the pay and conditions now.
As for the people who are looking across trades so what if someone gets more than you do, their agreements are totally different than yours so get used to it, and to each there own and that is the way it should be.
The so called managers that live and work in palace water world where nothing gets done, should stop trying to stir things up across the airline and get back to doing what they are paid for, or do they get bonus points towards their next car for starting things like this thread. There again maybe that’s all they can do because they certainly don’t seem able to manage, maybe it’s their way of actually getting a name for themselves besides the one’s they are normally called by the people who do actually work in this airline.
End of rant for now
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All I can say is good luck to the folk on the old contracts and I hope you have many more years to go, as for the people that are on the new ones what’s your problem you knew what you were getting when you started so why whinge about the pay and conditions now.
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bealine - whilst I broadly agree with you, if the company changes the T&C's for a particular job then anyone joining after that change is, supposedly, aware of them and happy with the new T&C's.
Just look at the pension - older employees are in APS (a good scheme), newer employees are in NAPS (a c**p scheme) and the newest don't have any FS scheme at all!.
But each group of employees knew what they were getting when they signed on the bottom line.
Just look at the pension - older employees are in APS (a good scheme), newer employees are in NAPS (a c**p scheme) and the newest don't have any FS scheme at all!.
But each group of employees knew what they were getting when they signed on the bottom line.
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maxell
As crew on the new contract would like to say this to you.
I & most of my other collegues, knew very well what we got, and we don't complain about the pay at all.
But If you look at cost of living in London then you will see we are NOT well paid at all.
Also if you read Anti Ice's post just before that sums it all up.
If I wanted to have the old contract pay, then I had to apply to get in before 97. When the contract changed.
This thread is not about the old vers new contract. But we can only supply the facts to what is going on.
As crew on the new contract would like to say this to you.
I & most of my other collegues, knew very well what we got, and we don't complain about the pay at all.
But If you look at cost of living in London then you will see we are NOT well paid at all.
Also if you read Anti Ice's post just before that sums it all up.
If I wanted to have the old contract pay, then I had to apply to get in before 97. When the contract changed.
This thread is not about the old vers new contract. But we can only supply the facts to what is going on.
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Anti ice I whole heartedly agree with your post.
To expand we have Pursers at Gatwick longhaul not taking home more than 1700 per month.
AJ could you give me an idea of how many flying hours the cabin crew at ryan easy ect are doing per month or better still per year.
I must say that over all it is not suprising that we still have pilots who claim to know CSD's who live in a palace and drive a Bentley to work cause the suitcase won't go in the boot of the Ferrari.
Lets be honest here Cabin crew are paid peanuts compared to pilots.
Even If Darkstar's fantasy CSD is real they would, when compared to a captain of equal seniority, earn a pittance.
The sad thing, that people like darkstar and others do not realise, is that it is the unfair cabin crew wage system that gives us the anomalies of the B div CSD/PSR.
It is a sad state of affairs that to earn good money matters less about your rank than it does about what fleet you are on.
For example a main crew member on B Div would probably take home more per month than a CSD at LGW.
This effectively means that If darkstar's immaginary CSD neighbour does exist it is obvious that they have not long to retirement and they are B div, the comparable Captain however would earn around 120k.
Lets be honest guys If you want to earn big money stay being a pilot after all you will never earn 120k per year being cabin crew.
That point made it makes it difficult to envision why you are all so far off the mark?
Let alone upset by payment that in the grand scheme of things only displays a lack of compitance of our management and a lack of understanding by some contributors here.
To expand we have Pursers at Gatwick longhaul not taking home more than 1700 per month.
AJ could you give me an idea of how many flying hours the cabin crew at ryan easy ect are doing per month or better still per year.
I must say that over all it is not suprising that we still have pilots who claim to know CSD's who live in a palace and drive a Bentley to work cause the suitcase won't go in the boot of the Ferrari.
Lets be honest here Cabin crew are paid peanuts compared to pilots.
Even If Darkstar's fantasy CSD is real they would, when compared to a captain of equal seniority, earn a pittance.
The sad thing, that people like darkstar and others do not realise, is that it is the unfair cabin crew wage system that gives us the anomalies of the B div CSD/PSR.
It is a sad state of affairs that to earn good money matters less about your rank than it does about what fleet you are on.
For example a main crew member on B Div would probably take home more per month than a CSD at LGW.
This effectively means that If darkstar's immaginary CSD neighbour does exist it is obvious that they have not long to retirement and they are B div, the comparable Captain however would earn around 120k.
Lets be honest guys If you want to earn big money stay being a pilot after all you will never earn 120k per year being cabin crew.
That point made it makes it difficult to envision why you are all so far off the mark?
Let alone upset by payment that in the grand scheme of things only displays a lack of compitance of our management and a lack of understanding by some contributors here.
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heavy crew
Monthly hours vary, but as an indication, I had 105 block hours last month - if every month was equally busy or busier that would take us all to over 1000 hours/year.
Factor in about 35 days leave/year and you get approx 900-1000 hours/annum (for busy CC on 4-sector days, which is the way things appear to be going, at least at LTN; I know some of our BFS/EDI based CC are on 6-sector days).
However, everyone knows what they are getting themselves into when they apply for easyJet.
Monthly hours vary, but as an indication, I had 105 block hours last month - if every month was equally busy or busier that would take us all to over 1000 hours/year.
Factor in about 35 days leave/year and you get approx 900-1000 hours/annum (for busy CC on 4-sector days, which is the way things appear to be going, at least at LTN; I know some of our BFS/EDI based CC are on 6-sector days).
However, everyone knows what they are getting themselves into when they apply for easyJet.
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Sounds fair last year I did 991 flying hours but am looking like I will do well over a thousand perhaps just short of 1200, here at BA longhaul.
If you are easy cabin crew unless you want to work for less money stay there, its only after many years when you can get to LHR that there is any thing like decent money.
PS if you wish to know the main crew here earn from 800 to 1300 take home per month for about 1000 hours per year.
OH yes out of that you have to feed yourself downroute as well.
Lets put it this way Why do you think we can't keep or find enough cabin crew at BA these days.
Sorry to say AJ but the masively overpayed and underworked cabin crew Darkstar and other myopic pilots seem to constantly bleat about are long gone.
The last few are retireing we that are left here are leaving in droves
Benchmark for the cabin crew,we are the vast majority so don't take the p1ss, most of the main crew here would need 400 quid a month more to get level with easy and ryan are better still
Oh and to add insult to injury you would't Have to do cabin service with them so you would walk a hell of a lot less miles in your 1200 hours
If you are easy cabin crew unless you want to work for less money stay there, its only after many years when you can get to LHR that there is any thing like decent money.
PS if you wish to know the main crew here earn from 800 to 1300 take home per month for about 1000 hours per year.
OH yes out of that you have to feed yourself downroute as well.
Lets put it this way Why do you think we can't keep or find enough cabin crew at BA these days.
Sorry to say AJ but the masively overpayed and underworked cabin crew Darkstar and other myopic pilots seem to constantly bleat about are long gone.
The last few are retireing we that are left here are leaving in droves
Benchmark for the cabin crew,we are the vast majority so don't take the p1ss, most of the main crew here would need 400 quid a month more to get level with easy and ryan are better still
Oh and to add insult to injury you would't Have to do cabin service with them so you would walk a hell of a lot less miles in your 1200 hours
Last edited by heavy crew; 5th Apr 2004 at 13:13.
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Heavy crew
Please explain why cabin crew should earn similar salaries to their pilot colleagues? Should the guy stoking the boiler on a cruise ship earn the same as the captain, or should every MP earn the same as Tony Blair?
They are entirely different jobs, requiring different qualifications and attributes, and involve differing levels of skill and responsibility. Fact. Any other argument is purely an emotional response.
Please explain why cabin crew should earn similar salaries to their pilot colleagues? Should the guy stoking the boiler on a cruise ship earn the same as the captain, or should every MP earn the same as Tony Blair?
They are entirely different jobs, requiring different qualifications and attributes, and involve differing levels of skill and responsibility. Fact. Any other argument is purely an emotional response.
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come on Fruitbat...
I don't believe for a second that Heavycrew meant we, CC should get the same pay as F/D..
Think now that he was talking about new and old contract..
WHICH.. this thread is not about...
and WHY FaPoGai
should we go back to Woolworth?
I don't believe for a second that Heavycrew meant we, CC should get the same pay as F/D..
Think now that he was talking about new and old contract..
WHICH.. this thread is not about...
and WHY FaPoGai
should we go back to Woolworth?
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Fruit bat Your point is?
All I was trying to get across is that I do not understand why pilots who will go on to take home over 7000 quid in a month are bothered about cabin crew wages.
Darkstar seemed very envious of his neighbours CLK because he was a csd, I pointed out that he should stay a pilot bacause he would earn a great deal more.
What on earth has that to do with "Please explain why cabin crew should earn similar salaries to their pilot colleagues? Should the guy stoking the boiler on a cruise ship earn the same as the captain, or should every MP earn the same as Tony Blair?"
Taking that point onboard however and expanding could you not question why a pilot earns more than Tony Blair.
At which point however did I make the conclusion that they are jobs that should be compared, I just don't understand why all pilots seem to know CSD's with mercs.
The rub of this fruitbat and anybody else, is that it seems that pilots feel that BA cabin crew are overpaid and underworked.
As my last posting should tell you it is far from the case.
What we need is a little common sence.
You can't benchmark us against easy as they do no cabin service yet we are paid (at my base) up to 400 quid a month less.
We do around the same (if not more) hours.
We have a monthley Diners bill to come out of wage.
We work harder onboard with a more intricate product and more variation than any other crew including Virgin.
yet we still have muppets droning on how expensive we are.
If our pilot collegues on this and other forums actually looked at the truth and saw it, instead of seeing what they wished to see they would be very concerned for their 7000 per month.
As for Go back to Woolworths well you must have the IQ of a wallnut, Fipogai, get you head out of the sand and open your eyes.
We are already losing cabin crew by the bucket load, not the woolworths or burger types, the talented ones who obviously are having no problems getting better T @ C elsewhere, thes are the people BA must keep or else cabin services will fail ultimately.
Guess what if the cabin services department within BA fails so does BA and how well you fly the A/C will not matter a bit.
All I was trying to get across is that I do not understand why pilots who will go on to take home over 7000 quid in a month are bothered about cabin crew wages.
Darkstar seemed very envious of his neighbours CLK because he was a csd, I pointed out that he should stay a pilot bacause he would earn a great deal more.
What on earth has that to do with "Please explain why cabin crew should earn similar salaries to their pilot colleagues? Should the guy stoking the boiler on a cruise ship earn the same as the captain, or should every MP earn the same as Tony Blair?"
Taking that point onboard however and expanding could you not question why a pilot earns more than Tony Blair.
At which point however did I make the conclusion that they are jobs that should be compared, I just don't understand why all pilots seem to know CSD's with mercs.
The rub of this fruitbat and anybody else, is that it seems that pilots feel that BA cabin crew are overpaid and underworked.
As my last posting should tell you it is far from the case.
What we need is a little common sence.
You can't benchmark us against easy as they do no cabin service yet we are paid (at my base) up to 400 quid a month less.
We do around the same (if not more) hours.
We have a monthley Diners bill to come out of wage.
We work harder onboard with a more intricate product and more variation than any other crew including Virgin.
yet we still have muppets droning on how expensive we are.
If our pilot collegues on this and other forums actually looked at the truth and saw it, instead of seeing what they wished to see they would be very concerned for their 7000 per month.
As for Go back to Woolworths well you must have the IQ of a wallnut, Fipogai, get you head out of the sand and open your eyes.
We are already losing cabin crew by the bucket load, not the woolworths or burger types, the talented ones who obviously are having no problems getting better T @ C elsewhere, thes are the people BA must keep or else cabin services will fail ultimately.
Guess what if the cabin services department within BA fails so does BA and how well you fly the A/C will not matter a bit.
Last edited by heavy crew; 5th Apr 2004 at 16:02.
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Heavy crew, we DO have to provide a service aboard ALL easyJet flights - the only difference is that our passengers have to pay for food & drinks. We also operate a Gift Shop service on all flights too.
As to who works harder/has more hours, as I don't work for BA I couldn't comment; BUT, lest anyone else get the wrong impression, staff at ANY LCC will work extremely hard - 4 sector days with 25 minute turnarounds (including cleaning the aircraft ourselves, crumb by crumb) is no light task.
I invite anyone to operate a LTN-FAO-LTN-AMS-LTN service under aforementioned conditions; both FD and CC work extremely hard 6 on 3 off nonstop at ezy and fatigue is a major problem. The reason for the relatively good pay is simply that staff operate a high number of sectors every month. Work hard = good pay.
But then no one forces us into the job, and I still enjoy inviting our passengers aboard every day.
rgds
As to who works harder/has more hours, as I don't work for BA I couldn't comment; BUT, lest anyone else get the wrong impression, staff at ANY LCC will work extremely hard - 4 sector days with 25 minute turnarounds (including cleaning the aircraft ourselves, crumb by crumb) is no light task.
I invite anyone to operate a LTN-FAO-LTN-AMS-LTN service under aforementioned conditions; both FD and CC work extremely hard 6 on 3 off nonstop at ezy and fatigue is a major problem. The reason for the relatively good pay is simply that staff operate a high number of sectors every month. Work hard = good pay.
But then no one forces us into the job, and I still enjoy inviting our passengers aboard every day.
rgds
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Thanks for that AJ.
I don't believe that anybody on the planet, would accuse anyone who worked for easy or Ryan air, of not working hard, and I certainly don't fancy cleaning the plane during the turnarounds.
On a side point do your pilots generally help you guy's, I realise that they don't have to but generally do they?
Oh yes it seems that 6 and 3 though once popular at BA has been changed to a bid system or 5 and 2 on the main.
Do many of your customers actually buy food and drinks, the reason I ask is because as it is free on BA our customers generally have it and sometimes too much of it.
Do most people at easy feel like you, that you are well paid?
Would you consider coming to BA for aproximately 1200 pounds take home working slightly more hours.
You will have to wait many years for promotion or transfer, and as there are night stops you will have to feed yourself, genuinely if you are careful and don't drink too much you will have a diners bill of about 200 quid that comes out of your wages.
If this does not sound like the dream of BA that you have heard about, I can promise you it is a total reality, ahh but when I get to long haul you say, sadly this is long haul I am talking about.
I don't believe that anybody on the planet, would accuse anyone who worked for easy or Ryan air, of not working hard, and I certainly don't fancy cleaning the plane during the turnarounds.
On a side point do your pilots generally help you guy's, I realise that they don't have to but generally do they?
Oh yes it seems that 6 and 3 though once popular at BA has been changed to a bid system or 5 and 2 on the main.
Do many of your customers actually buy food and drinks, the reason I ask is because as it is free on BA our customers generally have it and sometimes too much of it.
Do most people at easy feel like you, that you are well paid?
Would you consider coming to BA for aproximately 1200 pounds take home working slightly more hours.
You will have to wait many years for promotion or transfer, and as there are night stops you will have to feed yourself, genuinely if you are careful and don't drink too much you will have a diners bill of about 200 quid that comes out of your wages.
If this does not sound like the dream of BA that you have heard about, I can promise you it is a total reality, ahh but when I get to long haul you say, sadly this is long haul I am talking about.
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Attn. BA staff etc.
Amigos
Heavy Crew ,Ths, et al.
Why should you not go back to Woolworths?
Because you might then get a grasp on what the real world is doing.
See you all at the Labour Exchange soon.
Rgds. FPG.
Heavy Crew ,Ths, et al.
Why should you not go back to Woolworths?
Because you might then get a grasp on what the real world is doing.
See you all at the Labour Exchange soon.
Rgds. FPG.
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Hi again heavy crew
Yes, FD help as & when they can with cleaning, and their help is of course much appreciated. One of the things I like about ezy is the fantastic working environment & atmosphere between crews, flightdeck or cabin.
I think you will find most ezy crew (or at least those I talk to) say they are amongst the best paid; apparently we get paid more than Virgin and charters and according to your figures, more than juniors at BA (I am very surprised to hear this). Nevertheless, some seniors have jumped to join BA, Emirates and ANZ (pay at the latter is meant to be very good...)
Regarding the food/drink - on flights to sunspots (Malaga etc.) we make an absolute fortune - my housemate has just come back from a FAO/AMS and back and they apparently made GBP 700 and 220 euros; given 10% commission on anything sold, this is not an insignificant boost to wages!
As a rule, English passengers seem to buy lots of food/drink, foreign pax don't, so it depends on the demography of a particular flight. Despite prices that I will admit are a complete rip-off, those pax just keep buying...
Regarding flying for anyone else, my preference would be Emirates given I can't bear many more British winters...(I'm English, but was born in Brazil).
regards
Yes, FD help as & when they can with cleaning, and their help is of course much appreciated. One of the things I like about ezy is the fantastic working environment & atmosphere between crews, flightdeck or cabin.
I think you will find most ezy crew (or at least those I talk to) say they are amongst the best paid; apparently we get paid more than Virgin and charters and according to your figures, more than juniors at BA (I am very surprised to hear this). Nevertheless, some seniors have jumped to join BA, Emirates and ANZ (pay at the latter is meant to be very good...)
Regarding the food/drink - on flights to sunspots (Malaga etc.) we make an absolute fortune - my housemate has just come back from a FAO/AMS and back and they apparently made GBP 700 and 220 euros; given 10% commission on anything sold, this is not an insignificant boost to wages!
As a rule, English passengers seem to buy lots of food/drink, foreign pax don't, so it depends on the demography of a particular flight. Despite prices that I will admit are a complete rip-off, those pax just keep buying...
Regarding flying for anyone else, my preference would be Emirates given I can't bear many more British winters...(I'm English, but was born in Brazil).
regards
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AJ can I offer a heartfelt thanks for your information.
It is a total breath of fresh air to talk so candidly on a forum, especially one with pilots and be given the truth not politically engineered half truths.
Thanks again.
I must say that I envy you your relationship with your pilots, I do not think we at BA have anywhere near that level of closeness.
Obviously you at easy have the advantage of being a smaller and newer company and so benefit from the closeness that comes from both those situations, I certainly can't see our pilots helping to clean the A/C they would feel it was below them.
With your commision at the levels you state you are paid dramatically more than we are we do get commision but only on duty free sales and again at the same 10% rate as yourself, it is very rarely worth talking about a few quid per flight except lagos where it is often over 20 quid.
I can truthfully say that the seniors that have left you guys to come to BA will probably be shocked at how much money they have dropped, it will take them many years to better the money that they were earning at Easy.
Busy I hope that your fiction comment is not aimed at AJ or myself, it is posible that AJ is a wind up, and the info I am getting from them is spurious, if that is the case, then well done AJ you got me, my information is not fiction however and just because certain elements of BA don't believe it, does not mean that the information I have put forward is in any way incorrect.
I have however been asked by a collegue of mine to not post any thing further about our conditions and as I promised that if I was ever asked I would, I shall refrain.
AJ if you are pukka thanks if not you got me, fair play.
Perhaps a good idea with regard to busys comment
Fipogai grow up.
If I did go to woolworths it would be as the store manager, where, as you would be the van driver I would be your boss, so consider this your first verbal warning
It is a total breath of fresh air to talk so candidly on a forum, especially one with pilots and be given the truth not politically engineered half truths.
Thanks again.
I must say that I envy you your relationship with your pilots, I do not think we at BA have anywhere near that level of closeness.
Obviously you at easy have the advantage of being a smaller and newer company and so benefit from the closeness that comes from both those situations, I certainly can't see our pilots helping to clean the A/C they would feel it was below them.
With your commision at the levels you state you are paid dramatically more than we are we do get commision but only on duty free sales and again at the same 10% rate as yourself, it is very rarely worth talking about a few quid per flight except lagos where it is often over 20 quid.
I can truthfully say that the seniors that have left you guys to come to BA will probably be shocked at how much money they have dropped, it will take them many years to better the money that they were earning at Easy.
Busy I hope that your fiction comment is not aimed at AJ or myself, it is posible that AJ is a wind up, and the info I am getting from them is spurious, if that is the case, then well done AJ you got me, my information is not fiction however and just because certain elements of BA don't believe it, does not mean that the information I have put forward is in any way incorrect.
I have however been asked by a collegue of mine to not post any thing further about our conditions and as I promised that if I was ever asked I would, I shall refrain.
AJ if you are pukka thanks if not you got me, fair play.
Perhaps a good idea with regard to busys comment
Fipogai grow up.
If I did go to woolworths it would be as the store manager, where, as you would be the van driver I would be your boss, so consider this your first verbal warning
Last edited by heavy crew; 6th Apr 2004 at 08:54.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
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Heavy I can assure you I am who I say I am; I started my training course in October, still on 6 month's probation and based @ LTN; other than that, I would prefer to remain annonymous as I know ezy management read pprune - you only have to look at the drop-down address bar on the PCs at easyland 
Thanks for your post
rgds
Thanks for your post
rgds