Attention BA staff and shareholders
Join Date: May 2002
Location: LGW - Hub of the Universe!
Posts: 978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a BA shareholder from the initial share issue, and now, through choice, ex-BA SLF, I am appalled at the continuous, apparent wastefulness and unnecessary financial extravagance of this Company, combined with apathetic Staff and pathetic Management.
For money wasting, get this!!! Rod Eddington, post 09/11 at a time when BA was allegedly "haemorraging" money at the rate of £25m per day, Lithuanian Airlines were paid £12m for their Heathrow slots and free handling at Gatwick negotiated - just so that long-haul flights could be moved from Gatwick to Heathrow to satisfy the petty wishes of the old "BOAC" ******s!!! I put it to you that this was wanton wastefulness......not a small handout to loyal staff who, frankly, have put up with a disgusting, filthy working environment and appalling conditions since 09/11.
No, I think Mike Street is doing okay - leave the man alone!
(It's the dead-beats on the Board that need replacing!)
Last edited by bealine; 29th Mar 2004 at 21:49.
As SLF i have flown on the following airlines, LH and SH, in the last 6 months:
CX
SQ
Austrian Airlines (forget the code)
LH
BR
BA
I would rate the passenger service in that order too. The Asian airlines are well known for high quality service (Eva was a full flight to Taiwan with a tired and run-down looking crew and plane). Austrian was surprisingly good. BA was, well, i really felt i was supposed to be greatful that i was being alowed to fly. The BA, LHR - Milan flight was delayed 2 hrs and when questioned the CC response was "Just wait for the captain's announcement".
CX
SQ
Austrian Airlines (forget the code)
LH
BR
BA
I would rate the passenger service in that order too. The Asian airlines are well known for high quality service (Eva was a full flight to Taiwan with a tired and run-down looking crew and plane). Austrian was surprisingly good. BA was, well, i really felt i was supposed to be greatful that i was being alowed to fly. The BA, LHR - Milan flight was delayed 2 hrs and when questioned the CC response was "Just wait for the captain's announcement".
Controversial, moi?
"I write this from a hotel room on an enforced night stop because crew wouldn't work beyond limits.... "
Well who would at the risk of the CAA removing your a/c licences????
Well who would at the risk of the CAA removing your a/c licences????
What licences to CC hold then? Are they like pilot licences?
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Connex,
is that who you work for???
first of all... I was employed by BA because of my perfect skills.
And my first class training and KNOW how to treat people right.
And I do a perfect job, THANKS!!
And since I'm well educated and have a VERY broad knowledge in life, I do know what I'm talking about.. AND treat my pax and collegues perfect.
BUT it's just when petty little people like you come in and think you know better.. then it's then when I raise my voice and won't take any crap from.
so better take your bitter little ¨spent 3 days in a tent¨ a** and go and get your facts right before you start with me.
is that who you work for???
first of all... I was employed by BA because of my perfect skills.
And my first class training and KNOW how to treat people right.
And I do a perfect job, THANKS!!
And since I'm well educated and have a VERY broad knowledge in life, I do know what I'm talking about.. AND treat my pax and collegues perfect.
BUT it's just when petty little people like you come in and think you know better.. then it's then when I raise my voice and won't take any crap from.
so better take your bitter little ¨spent 3 days in a tent¨ a** and go and get your facts right before you start with me.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UAE
Age: 59
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question
If this extra payment had not been offered by management, would the CSD's refused to have worked (or any of the orther crew members on board.
I am assuming BA cabin crew numbers are driven by a Service requirement and not a safety requirement (1 for every 50 pax ?)
Just flown BA long haul (again) and again they were good. Being consistent in this game is hard. They will always be bad flights. I have experienced them.
If this extra payment had not been offered by management, would the CSD's refused to have worked (or any of the orther crew members on board.
I am assuming BA cabin crew numbers are driven by a Service requirement and not a safety requirement (1 for every 50 pax ?)
Just flown BA long haul (again) and again they were good. Being consistent in this game is hard. They will always be bad flights. I have experienced them.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1) Disappointed:
" expected to work like a nurse, cook, waitress etc etc."Yes, thats what the job is. Presumably you wanted to do it when you joined and you knew what the T&C were and gladly signed up. If you dont now like these things you are a free person and have the option of doing something else.
2) Parcel: "EZY and Ryan exploit their crews". No they dont. They specify the job and what the T&C are. If people sign up they accept them. From the look of another thread running on EZY most of their people are saying they have a good time and enjoy it. I havent seen anyone working for BA ( who are paid more and have generally easier rosters etc.) in this thread yet say its a fun place to be.
3) Wish it were True:
You think a benchmarking exercise would bring improved T & C etc. Well, forget about benchmarking with the European majors,- they all share the same problem. The far easterns are far more demanding of their people and for less money. The companys to benchmark with are the new entrants such as Virgin, and the low costs as they are the new model and expanding rapidly. They are also generally more fun to fly with.
" expected to work like a nurse, cook, waitress etc etc."Yes, thats what the job is. Presumably you wanted to do it when you joined and you knew what the T&C were and gladly signed up. If you dont now like these things you are a free person and have the option of doing something else.
2) Parcel: "EZY and Ryan exploit their crews". No they dont. They specify the job and what the T&C are. If people sign up they accept them. From the look of another thread running on EZY most of their people are saying they have a good time and enjoy it. I havent seen anyone working for BA ( who are paid more and have generally easier rosters etc.) in this thread yet say its a fun place to be.
3) Wish it were True:
You think a benchmarking exercise would bring improved T & C etc. Well, forget about benchmarking with the European majors,- they all share the same problem. The far easterns are far more demanding of their people and for less money. The companys to benchmark with are the new entrants such as Virgin, and the low costs as they are the new model and expanding rapidly. They are also generally more fun to fly with.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ThS:
Not a hint of arrogance there in your post is there?
Quote:
'Perfect Skills'
'I do a Perfect Job'
'KNOW how to treat people right (sic)'
And I won't even mention your willingness to 'raise your voice' in any situation, because that certainly is not suitable for any operating environment.
If you are displaying a pompous attitude such as that in the cabin - forgive me but you may be doing a great job - the attitude is not going to win you any favours with your colleagues, especially if you ever display that in front of customers...
...all there is to say is - do you really want to be perceived as many US crew are for what they are? Overpaid dragons who have lost touch with what the job is about, and believe they are worth their weight in gold?
Shall we get back on topic then?
Disappointed:
You are probably close to the truth in terms of why the payment is made, however you only have to look at some customer experiences to understand the perception of other employee groups do you not? Further the abuse of the system that is being referred to is the UK Tax System is it not? For that reason alone I would be more worried.
Perhaps you should all read what Diverse wrote and stop bickering among groups, which only enables senior management to erode hard fought Ts&Cs of each group in turn. Pull the boat the same direction etc?
Not a hint of arrogance there in your post is there?
Quote:
'Perfect Skills'
'I do a Perfect Job'
'KNOW how to treat people right (sic)'
And I won't even mention your willingness to 'raise your voice' in any situation, because that certainly is not suitable for any operating environment.
If you are displaying a pompous attitude such as that in the cabin - forgive me but you may be doing a great job - the attitude is not going to win you any favours with your colleagues, especially if you ever display that in front of customers...
...all there is to say is - do you really want to be perceived as many US crew are for what they are? Overpaid dragons who have lost touch with what the job is about, and believe they are worth their weight in gold?Shall we get back on topic then?
Disappointed:
You are probably close to the truth in terms of why the payment is made, however you only have to look at some customer experiences to understand the perception of other employee groups do you not? Further the abuse of the system that is being referred to is the UK Tax System is it not? For that reason alone I would be more worried.
Perhaps you should all read what Diverse wrote and stop bickering among groups, which only enables senior management to erode hard fought Ts&Cs of each group in turn. Pull the boat the same direction etc?
Last edited by Lucifer; 30th Mar 2004 at 15:51.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am reading this post and can't get over the arrogance and bad will on here directed to BA cabin crew.
This situation makes me think if all people in BA have this anti cabin crew attitude it would certainly go some way to explain why BA can no longer keep their cabin crew.
This is the company that never used to have trouble keeping crew, quite the opposite, the crew all used to stay for years untill retirement and so the staff average age was quite high and it took many years to get promotion, up to 15 years for purser.
Oh yes BA cabin services can't keep crew any longer, even the old ones, Now it appears these crew along with new contract crew are starting to leave and leave they are, in droves BA can't recruit enough to stop the outflux.
That is the truth behind this offer to the crew to work one down.
Swiss toni and his collegues years ago dreamed of a wonderfull world where cabin crew were not paid what they considered exhorbitant salaries, so they created a new contract, they then decided to get as many perks like overtime, MT and london weighting ect into the current salary as possible so that all that joined after the golden date of Jan 1997 would get less money.
After a costly strike Swiss toni and freinds were happy as each year went by the saving became greater, unfortunately they fiddled as rome burned and the savings were redirected instead of inproving the bottomline.
When sep 11th happened, the airline was thrown into freefall, Swiss toni had not expected this and there seemed no way to stem the losses, so they went to all the departments and all again had to give savings, some gave more than other's for example Flight ops gave up their cheeseboard.
In cabin services they removed a crewmember, this obviously put greater strain on each crew member, morale had been low to begin with, but at least the loads were low.
Then BA do a huge sales push dirt cheap prices to combat the low cost carriers and loads have remained high ever since, as the loads were high the unions asked for the return of the crewmember, swiss toni thought about it and then refused.
The workload continued to grow swiss tonis guard dogs IFS management were sent to continue performing disipliplinaries on any crew for any reason no matter how small, as Tonis secret plan started to have effect.
The secret plan hatched was at the same time as the new contract.
It was to push the cabin crew harder and harder stop any enjoyment downroute, stop bus drinks but most of all engender a feeling of being watched, for what swiss toni wanted rid off was the old contract crew as new contract crew were cheap.
All this has come to pass now the cabin crew are reduced to levels where each full flight is tougher and tougher, the customers have higher expectations and the crew have less product and less collegues to deliver it with.
On a tripple 7 for example there are now empty galleys as the crew are all out in the cabin, even the old CSD has a role in the cabin service.
After the sep 11th crewmember was not returned swiss toni and his optically challenged freinds tried to reduce the crew by one more, both unions refused and stated that if toni just did it anyway then there would be a ballot for industrial action.
At this time Swiss toni realised that there were no longer enough crew to actually do the job so again blame the sickness (it has worked before) and start recruitment, the unions did not trust toni any longer as he had conned them when they helped during 911.
The option was to cap First cabins this was generally unpopular especially with pilots for many reasons one being it messed with their hols (F entitlement), it also upset toni's collegues for the same reasons.
Sadly Cabin crew are still leaving in droves, it seems quicker than we can recruit, this has exasperated the change over period, as the closed zones was so unpopular toni's collegues designed this bribe .
It astounds me that none of all this has been mentioned, but as it was born in the ivory towers of warterworld perhaps not.
If anybody thinks that current cabin crew are well paid and have good conditions are living in a fools paradise, they need to wake up and smell the coffee.
For example skylion ( ex Bcal I presume) don't even dream that BA crew are loads better off than even Virgin or Ryanair they are not and they are certainly a great deal worse off than the competitors that the flight crew benchmaked against.
I welcome any comments after all everything I have posted is true.
Sorry for such a long first post but I can't believe so many supposedly inteligent people can be so wide of the mark.
This situation makes me think if all people in BA have this anti cabin crew attitude it would certainly go some way to explain why BA can no longer keep their cabin crew.
This is the company that never used to have trouble keeping crew, quite the opposite, the crew all used to stay for years untill retirement and so the staff average age was quite high and it took many years to get promotion, up to 15 years for purser.
Oh yes BA cabin services can't keep crew any longer, even the old ones, Now it appears these crew along with new contract crew are starting to leave and leave they are, in droves BA can't recruit enough to stop the outflux.
That is the truth behind this offer to the crew to work one down.
Swiss toni and his collegues years ago dreamed of a wonderfull world where cabin crew were not paid what they considered exhorbitant salaries, so they created a new contract, they then decided to get as many perks like overtime, MT and london weighting ect into the current salary as possible so that all that joined after the golden date of Jan 1997 would get less money.
After a costly strike Swiss toni and freinds were happy as each year went by the saving became greater, unfortunately they fiddled as rome burned and the savings were redirected instead of inproving the bottomline.
When sep 11th happened, the airline was thrown into freefall, Swiss toni had not expected this and there seemed no way to stem the losses, so they went to all the departments and all again had to give savings, some gave more than other's for example Flight ops gave up their cheeseboard.
In cabin services they removed a crewmember, this obviously put greater strain on each crew member, morale had been low to begin with, but at least the loads were low.
Then BA do a huge sales push dirt cheap prices to combat the low cost carriers and loads have remained high ever since, as the loads were high the unions asked for the return of the crewmember, swiss toni thought about it and then refused.
The workload continued to grow swiss tonis guard dogs IFS management were sent to continue performing disipliplinaries on any crew for any reason no matter how small, as Tonis secret plan started to have effect.
The secret plan hatched was at the same time as the new contract.
It was to push the cabin crew harder and harder stop any enjoyment downroute, stop bus drinks but most of all engender a feeling of being watched, for what swiss toni wanted rid off was the old contract crew as new contract crew were cheap.
All this has come to pass now the cabin crew are reduced to levels where each full flight is tougher and tougher, the customers have higher expectations and the crew have less product and less collegues to deliver it with.
On a tripple 7 for example there are now empty galleys as the crew are all out in the cabin, even the old CSD has a role in the cabin service.
After the sep 11th crewmember was not returned swiss toni and his optically challenged freinds tried to reduce the crew by one more, both unions refused and stated that if toni just did it anyway then there would be a ballot for industrial action.
At this time Swiss toni realised that there were no longer enough crew to actually do the job so again blame the sickness (it has worked before) and start recruitment, the unions did not trust toni any longer as he had conned them when they helped during 911.
The option was to cap First cabins this was generally unpopular especially with pilots for many reasons one being it messed with their hols (F entitlement), it also upset toni's collegues for the same reasons.
Sadly Cabin crew are still leaving in droves, it seems quicker than we can recruit, this has exasperated the change over period, as the closed zones was so unpopular toni's collegues designed this bribe .
It astounds me that none of all this has been mentioned, but as it was born in the ivory towers of warterworld perhaps not.
If anybody thinks that current cabin crew are well paid and have good conditions are living in a fools paradise, they need to wake up and smell the coffee.
For example skylion ( ex Bcal I presume) don't even dream that BA crew are loads better off than even Virgin or Ryanair they are not and they are certainly a great deal worse off than the competitors that the flight crew benchmaked against.
I welcome any comments after all everything I have posted is true.
Sorry for such a long first post but I can't believe so many supposedly inteligent people can be so wide of the mark.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ascot,Berks,Great Britain
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there Heavy
What a post! Fascinating reading. You paint quite a dire picture indeed.
I have had access to the BASSA site on a number of occasions and am often shocked at the level of vitriol directed at me for being FC. I mention this to encourage you not to feel that everyone is anti-crew as you put it. I do not believe that every CC member is anti-FC despite what I have seen written.
Regards the recent payments I do not believe for a moment that the CC should be attacked for that. I would not attack anyone for extracting a good deal from their employer. I did not see any FC reject the payments made to them for the day trip TLV we used to operate. Rather I would attack the dreadful management that has brought us to this position. Like you I suspect the sickness issue is used to cover the poor management planning.
Perhaps the frustration you hear expressed is less to do specifically with the recent payments and more to do with the different approaches FC and CC take to off schedule ops. i.e FC tend to stick with it as a rule (yes I'm generallising here...) while CC tend to stick rigidly to agreements. I understand the arguments for this but it is frustrating to be thwarted at the last by this downroute.
I do not accept that CC are the only people to have seen their Ts and Cs eroded. Despite your implication FC lost rather more than a cheeseboard and good friends of mine on the ground have experienced very significant changes to their working conditions. Maybe lots of newer CC are leaving but the number of longer serving CC leaving is still I suspect low. My partner is S/H part time CC and still earns as much as a teacher friend of ours.
Best Regards
Diesel
What a post! Fascinating reading. You paint quite a dire picture indeed.
I have had access to the BASSA site on a number of occasions and am often shocked at the level of vitriol directed at me for being FC. I mention this to encourage you not to feel that everyone is anti-crew as you put it. I do not believe that every CC member is anti-FC despite what I have seen written.
Regards the recent payments I do not believe for a moment that the CC should be attacked for that. I would not attack anyone for extracting a good deal from their employer. I did not see any FC reject the payments made to them for the day trip TLV we used to operate. Rather I would attack the dreadful management that has brought us to this position. Like you I suspect the sickness issue is used to cover the poor management planning.
Perhaps the frustration you hear expressed is less to do specifically with the recent payments and more to do with the different approaches FC and CC take to off schedule ops. i.e FC tend to stick with it as a rule (yes I'm generallising here...) while CC tend to stick rigidly to agreements. I understand the arguments for this but it is frustrating to be thwarted at the last by this downroute.
I do not accept that CC are the only people to have seen their Ts and Cs eroded. Despite your implication FC lost rather more than a cheeseboard and good friends of mine on the ground have experienced very significant changes to their working conditions. Maybe lots of newer CC are leaving but the number of longer serving CC leaving is still I suspect low. My partner is S/H part time CC and still earns as much as a teacher friend of ours.
Best Regards
Diesel
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lucifer..
First of all... this is a forum.. and WE can and WILL express our thought and will raise our voices..
And IF you think that I'm not skillful enough to think about it when I'm working with crew OR with pax then I think this conversation is done...
First of all... this is a forum.. and WE can and WILL express our thought and will raise our voices..
And IF you think that I'm not skillful enough to think about it when I'm working with crew OR with pax then I think this conversation is done...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Costa del Hampshire
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bealine –
Are you a rare survivor from the BEA/BOAC bygone age? If you are really a member of the “Old Guard”, did you ever win the £100 jackpot from the fruit machine at the Viscount Club, LHR?
Sorry you don’t agree – your prerogative. Trouble is, the “piddling bonus” you refer to, and even all the other numerous niggles and issues, are not the problem. The problem is that your Company is now being held to ransom by certain groups who think that they can influence Company policy with the threat of walkouts, as per the swipe card issue. This is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Might work once, or even twice. After that your punters will walk away in droves, your Company will go bust, and you’ll all be out of a job. Very sensible!
Even if you don’t like it, rational discussion and negotiation is the ONLY way to resolve issues for a PLC if it is to have any chance of survival. For that to work, you have to be united. Sadly, for all of you at BA, this will never happen for as long as you’ve got a hole in your ar*e. You do not have “motivated” staff at BA – you have selfish staff. Nobody will support anybody else – the self/me me me/greed factor rears its head again. The competition out there may not be as big, but it will surely gain from your collective intransigence towards each other.
I like your reference to “BOAC wan*ers” – from what I remember, they always were better at everything than your lot – even wan*ing, I expect.
ThS –
Quote: “go and get your facts right before you start with me”
What “facts” are we referring to here, little viper?
Anyway, enough of that - in the spirit of UK/Swedish harmony, I am truly pleased to see that somebody who is as “well educated” as yourself was able to secure a position at the envious rate of £10800pa. Obviously all down to another resounding graduation with honours from the “Stockholm Academy of Talking Boll**ks”!
And with reference to your reply to Lucifer, yes you are correct – YOUR conversation is done.
With regard to the CC “slagging” on this thread, and irrespective to what they will say in their defence, yes – CC DO think they’re the Dogs Whatsits – they have always held that attitude. I tend to agree to a point – many of them look like DWs.
And for all you BA bods reading this post - as a shareholder in your Company, I want to see BA be successful, and there is always the "loyalty to the flag carrier" bit as well. What a shame you cannot harness the energy and intensity you use to verbally destroy each other to try, for once, to work with each other - you may be surprised at the outcome. At the very least, you may retain the support of Joe Public in your struggles against unpopular Management policy - support which could mean the difference between you having a job or joining good old ThS at McBurgers in the not-too-distant future.
Are you a rare survivor from the BEA/BOAC bygone age? If you are really a member of the “Old Guard”, did you ever win the £100 jackpot from the fruit machine at the Viscount Club, LHR?
Sorry you don’t agree – your prerogative. Trouble is, the “piddling bonus” you refer to, and even all the other numerous niggles and issues, are not the problem. The problem is that your Company is now being held to ransom by certain groups who think that they can influence Company policy with the threat of walkouts, as per the swipe card issue. This is cutting your nose off to spite your face. Might work once, or even twice. After that your punters will walk away in droves, your Company will go bust, and you’ll all be out of a job. Very sensible!
Even if you don’t like it, rational discussion and negotiation is the ONLY way to resolve issues for a PLC if it is to have any chance of survival. For that to work, you have to be united. Sadly, for all of you at BA, this will never happen for as long as you’ve got a hole in your ar*e. You do not have “motivated” staff at BA – you have selfish staff. Nobody will support anybody else – the self/me me me/greed factor rears its head again. The competition out there may not be as big, but it will surely gain from your collective intransigence towards each other.
I like your reference to “BOAC wan*ers” – from what I remember, they always were better at everything than your lot – even wan*ing, I expect.
ThS –
Quote: “go and get your facts right before you start with me”
What “facts” are we referring to here, little viper?
Anyway, enough of that - in the spirit of UK/Swedish harmony, I am truly pleased to see that somebody who is as “well educated” as yourself was able to secure a position at the envious rate of £10800pa. Obviously all down to another resounding graduation with honours from the “Stockholm Academy of Talking Boll**ks”!
And with reference to your reply to Lucifer, yes you are correct – YOUR conversation is done.
With regard to the CC “slagging” on this thread, and irrespective to what they will say in their defence, yes – CC DO think they’re the Dogs Whatsits – they have always held that attitude. I tend to agree to a point – many of them look like DWs.
And for all you BA bods reading this post - as a shareholder in your Company, I want to see BA be successful, and there is always the "loyalty to the flag carrier" bit as well. What a shame you cannot harness the energy and intensity you use to verbally destroy each other to try, for once, to work with each other - you may be surprised at the outcome. At the very least, you may retain the support of Joe Public in your struggles against unpopular Management policy - support which could mean the difference between you having a job or joining good old ThS at McBurgers in the not-too-distant future.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Connex...
I pity you BIG time...
dunno what you have against CC, (or was it acutally so that you have tried to get in? and got refused? ) ;0)
I/we are here to defend ourself from people like you, which if you haven't walked in my shoes and HAVE no IDEA about what we are talking about... (you only see and what has been written)
We need and STAND together against people like you..
I choose to work for BA, regardless of education (which I ahve and got, thank YOU very much!).. coz it's a FAB LIFESTYLE.. prob much better than yours..
won't even ask what you do...
but as I said, BEFORE you have walked in my shoes.. done my job.. AND actually WORKED inside BA.. then get your f**king facts right before you start with me...
you still saying the same s**t over and over again.. and I will fight for mine and my collegues right.
I pity you BIG time...
dunno what you have against CC, (or was it acutally so that you have tried to get in? and got refused? ) ;0)
I/we are here to defend ourself from people like you, which if you haven't walked in my shoes and HAVE no IDEA about what we are talking about... (you only see and what has been written)
We need and STAND together against people like you..
I choose to work for BA, regardless of education (which I ahve and got, thank YOU very much!).. coz it's a FAB LIFESTYLE.. prob much better than yours..
won't even ask what you do...
but as I said, BEFORE you have walked in my shoes.. done my job.. AND actually WORKED inside BA.. then get your f**king facts right before you start with me...
you still saying the same s**t over and over again.. and I will fight for mine and my collegues right.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brilliant post heavy crew.
Well reasoned and well balanced too . Well done.
We need people like you, beacuse if people who are as narrow-mined as swiss_tonni et al even bothered to really find out what goes on in the c/c community , he would certainly be stopped in his tracks and think twice about writing such damaging posts filled with such vitriol.
Unfortunately there are a few precious types in the cabin crew community who make it hard for everyone else.
On the whole though, they are a great group of people , who have adapted and now work even harder with one or more crew members down to achieve exceding to our customers expectations day in and day out.
The company don't listen (they've only just acknowledged that), and so we have lost and are losing some brilliant people right now, some of the best.
Alot of what is written is just hype , and doesn't apply to the majority of staff.
Morale is rock bottom at BA and sinking .......
But really ,as we've seen for the last 6 years, they are so totally,completely out of touch, they really aren't bothered.
Well reasoned and well balanced too . Well done.
We need people like you, beacuse if people who are as narrow-mined as swiss_tonni et al even bothered to really find out what goes on in the c/c community , he would certainly be stopped in his tracks and think twice about writing such damaging posts filled with such vitriol.
Unfortunately there are a few precious types in the cabin crew community who make it hard for everyone else.
On the whole though, they are a great group of people , who have adapted and now work even harder with one or more crew members down to achieve exceding to our customers expectations day in and day out.
The company don't listen (they've only just acknowledged that), and so we have lost and are losing some brilliant people right now, some of the best.
Alot of what is written is just hype , and doesn't apply to the majority of staff.
Morale is rock bottom at BA and sinking .......
But really ,as we've seen for the last 6 years, they are so totally,completely out of touch, they really aren't bothered.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Abroad
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the risk of being non PC here, let us not forget that we are talking about a minority of CC that do themselves and their colleagues no favours. Many of the staff do put more into the job than BA pay them for.. However , there are many others that earn ludicrous amounts of money and do very little for it. I think those are the people that the above posters resent and begrudge. That coupled with the superior attitude that some of them have doesn't endear them to passengers nor fellow staff.
The problem that BA have is dealing with these individuals as they are very well protected by their union and industrial law. It would appear that BA has given up on selectively culling the slackers and is using the "shotgun" approach in its industrial relations now.
All this on top of BA's announcement that it cannot afford to pay our pensions or afford a payrise whilst writing off 40 million quid in a bad internet investment does stick in the throat.
The problem that BA have is dealing with these individuals as they are very well protected by their union and industrial law. It would appear that BA has given up on selectively culling the slackers and is using the "shotgun" approach in its industrial relations now.
All this on top of BA's announcement that it cannot afford to pay our pensions or afford a payrise whilst writing off 40 million quid in a bad internet investment does stick in the throat.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anti Ice my friend..
perfect point.. and very well written..
we have to stick together.. and until anyone has seen it, been inside BA, nobody can understand what we are talking about...
and we will fight..
we know the bad people within BA... and there are a few.. actually they are in every company... but as far as I know..
on my flights, almost EVERYBODY walks off with a smile on their faces.. and almost everytime.. ¨Thanks for a GREAT flight¨ You are the best!
that's all I need.... that makes my day!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavycrew,
Fantastic posting.. AND soo true!.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diesel,
Thanks for your concern and it feels good to know that one is sort of on our side...
I generally have nothing against F/C, however.....
During my 4 yrs of flying I've met more w***ers than good intresting guys/girls. And even more now on L/H.
Think it's the attitude we come across 85% of the time.. it's ME, ME, ME from the F/C and no real respect from the other 5-15 crew working onboard the aircraft.
Have to be special newspapers(preferably 3 of them), 5 bottles of water each, choice of food before everybody else.. (even if you got your own, specially brought on)
and then going out downroute, F/C says/thinks.. lets have a 3 course meal.. and expects everybody to split the bill.. even poor Sally who only had a salad. (that actually happend on one of my flights), and it's not the only time I've heard it aswell.
Do you honesty think that's ok?
AND, it haven't been better since you guys, F/D went on hourly pay. My oh my.. what ignorent people I've met.
Dunno what the solution is, think CRM went out the window when the new doors came in.. But .. you tell me???
perfect point.. and very well written..
we have to stick together.. and until anyone has seen it, been inside BA, nobody can understand what we are talking about...
and we will fight..
we know the bad people within BA... and there are a few.. actually they are in every company... but as far as I know..
on my flights, almost EVERYBODY walks off with a smile on their faces.. and almost everytime.. ¨Thanks for a GREAT flight¨ You are the best!
that's all I need.... that makes my day!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavycrew,
Fantastic posting.. AND soo true!.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diesel,
Thanks for your concern and it feels good to know that one is sort of on our side...
I generally have nothing against F/C, however.....
During my 4 yrs of flying I've met more w***ers than good intresting guys/girls. And even more now on L/H.
Think it's the attitude we come across 85% of the time.. it's ME, ME, ME from the F/C and no real respect from the other 5-15 crew working onboard the aircraft.
Have to be special newspapers(preferably 3 of them), 5 bottles of water each, choice of food before everybody else.. (even if you got your own, specially brought on)
and then going out downroute, F/C says/thinks.. lets have a 3 course meal.. and expects everybody to split the bill.. even poor Sally who only had a salad. (that actually happend on one of my flights), and it's not the only time I've heard it aswell.
Do you honesty think that's ok?
AND, it haven't been better since you guys, F/D went on hourly pay. My oh my.. what ignorent people I've met.
Dunno what the solution is, think CRM went out the window when the new doors came in.. But .. you tell me???
Last edited by ThS; 31st Mar 2004 at 17:26.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone confirm for me why the BA cabin operatives talk about having a "Licence"? I've had a look through the CAA website and can't see any mention of a cabin crew "Licence". What ON EARTH are they talking about???
ThS
"I was employed by BA because of my perfect skills.
And my first class training and KNOW how to treat people right.
And I do a perfect job, "
As a customer, i find this type of attitude very arrogant and its the main reason i prefer NOT to fly BA. In my experience no CC does a PERFECT job, and anyone who believes that they do has stopped trying to improve. . .
"I was employed by BA because of my perfect skills.
And my first class training and KNOW how to treat people right.
And I do a perfect job, "
As a customer, i find this type of attitude very arrogant and its the main reason i prefer NOT to fly BA. In my experience no CC does a PERFECT job, and anyone who believes that they do has stopped trying to improve. . .
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Abroad
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ThS While I think I understand where you are coming from, I feel that you aren´t doing yourself any favours by commenting "off for a FAB 5 day trip to Cape Town.. you know paid first class hotel and just chilling out"
I think you will find that this is exactly the sort of thing that our pax and envious staff members are referring to as excessive. You and I both know that you need a decent hotel to rest in down route, when you spend half of your life away. Many non flying staff can only dream of being looked after so well when on duty.
I think you will find that this is exactly the sort of thing that our pax and envious staff members are referring to as excessive. You and I both know that you need a decent hotel to rest in down route, when you spend half of your life away. Many non flying staff can only dream of being looked after so well when on duty.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Ascot,Berks,Great Britain
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ThS
Sorry to read of your experience. Are you REALLY telling me that nearly 9 times out of 10 ALL of your comments apply? It's just that you appear to me to be combining all the caricatures in to one.
On the vast majority of times the crew I encounter are perfectly normal, pleasant individuals. Occasionally I am met with hostility, disregard, disinterest and rudeness. But only occasionally. After encountering such a person it's always easy to make sweeping generalisations about "All CC this or that etc". If you say something enough then you begin to think it's true.
As for restaurants, when I was an FO the bill invariably fell to me to sort out. I can tell you that if it was short, and it often was it would not be FC failing to pay.....indeed I very often had to split the extra with my colleague. I do not however make any conclusions about CC as a WHOLE from this.
All I'm trying to say is that perhaps if you speak to them, the guys and girls up front are not so bad!
Of course maybe you're right and it's only my flights where the FC i meet are generally pleasant, friendly and approachable.
Best Regards
Diesel
Sorry to read of your experience. Are you REALLY telling me that nearly 9 times out of 10 ALL of your comments apply? It's just that you appear to me to be combining all the caricatures in to one.
On the vast majority of times the crew I encounter are perfectly normal, pleasant individuals. Occasionally I am met with hostility, disregard, disinterest and rudeness. But only occasionally. After encountering such a person it's always easy to make sweeping generalisations about "All CC this or that etc". If you say something enough then you begin to think it's true.
As for restaurants, when I was an FO the bill invariably fell to me to sort out. I can tell you that if it was short, and it often was it would not be FC failing to pay.....indeed I very often had to split the extra with my colleague. I do not however make any conclusions about CC as a WHOLE from this.
All I'm trying to say is that perhaps if you speak to them, the guys and girls up front are not so bad!
Of course maybe you're right and it's only my flights where the FC i meet are generally pleasant, friendly and approachable.
Best Regards
Diesel
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Near LGW
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heavy Crew wrote:
"For example skylion ( ex Bcal I presume)........ "
How did BCal sudenly become a part of this thread? What did they do to you? Remember that they, and I was one of them, were taken over by BA so have no relevence in this discussion. Maybe you're one of those that your, BA, management screwed by keeping a former BCal employee, flight or ground staff, in a position that you think you should have had. It wasn't the staff that kept BCal people where they were or 'held back' original BA staff but the BA management after discussions with the BA / BCal unions.
In my Crewing days, I'm not there any more, I used to get very worked up by the Cabin Crew 'stuffing' the airline with their apparent intrasigence regarding working ' to the rule book'. As I became older though, and I like to think wiser, I realised that it was not the fault of the unions but the fault of management for giving in to what were often seen as union demands. If therefore, as appears to be the case with the current BA issue, the management once again f**k it up then we should not be blaming the CC even though it might appear that they are being paid a great deal extra to do the job they're employed for. That just boils down to envy - we'd all like some extra if we were offered it wouldn't we? These payments are for such a short time it won't be them that drives BA out of business, god forbid, it'll be mainly down to poor management decisions over the last many years
This whole thread should really be finished - after all none of us really knows the true reasons for these payments - and even if we think we do we're not going to a) stop them or b) get the CC bosses reprimanded for incompetance.
I've not always been known for supporting crews, or unions for that matter, but I really don't think we should hammer either because after all, whatever the reasons, it's the management that make the final decisions so we should be aiming any abuse (verbal only) at them.
Brgds
Ps. Although I no longer work for BA they are very much my airline of choice whenever I travel on business, which is quite frequently. Most CC appear to be very good at their jobs, although I'd not presume to suggest that I'm in a position to judge them because I've never been CC myself, just travelled a lot and drunk with many over the last 34 years.
"For example skylion ( ex Bcal I presume)........ "
How did BCal sudenly become a part of this thread? What did they do to you? Remember that they, and I was one of them, were taken over by BA so have no relevence in this discussion. Maybe you're one of those that your, BA, management screwed by keeping a former BCal employee, flight or ground staff, in a position that you think you should have had. It wasn't the staff that kept BCal people where they were or 'held back' original BA staff but the BA management after discussions with the BA / BCal unions.
In my Crewing days, I'm not there any more, I used to get very worked up by the Cabin Crew 'stuffing' the airline with their apparent intrasigence regarding working ' to the rule book'. As I became older though, and I like to think wiser, I realised that it was not the fault of the unions but the fault of management for giving in to what were often seen as union demands. If therefore, as appears to be the case with the current BA issue, the management once again f**k it up then we should not be blaming the CC even though it might appear that they are being paid a great deal extra to do the job they're employed for. That just boils down to envy - we'd all like some extra if we were offered it wouldn't we? These payments are for such a short time it won't be them that drives BA out of business, god forbid, it'll be mainly down to poor management decisions over the last many years
This whole thread should really be finished - after all none of us really knows the true reasons for these payments - and even if we think we do we're not going to a) stop them or b) get the CC bosses reprimanded for incompetance.
I've not always been known for supporting crews, or unions for that matter, but I really don't think we should hammer either because after all, whatever the reasons, it's the management that make the final decisions so we should be aiming any abuse (verbal only) at them.
Brgds
Ps. Although I no longer work for BA they are very much my airline of choice whenever I travel on business, which is quite frequently. Most CC appear to be very good at their jobs, although I'd not presume to suggest that I'm in a position to judge them because I've never been CC myself, just travelled a lot and drunk with many over the last 34 years.