Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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Totally agree with the last two post's...best i've read on this thread for a while...albeit different angles. It will sort itself out...
And that was bloody funny...
...with your head buried in the sand and your bum in the air you'll get buggered......
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After much soul searching and listening to lots of peoples advice i'm not going to proceed with my flight training for now. I'll keep my job and and pop up on the weekends with an aim to slowly completing my ppl. I'll assume a 4-5 year recovery window and will adjust my training to suit.
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I'd say that's a good decision......this 'situation' is the time for modular training, to earn and learn and watch things develop. It is a far more dynamic and flexible way to be and will stand you in far better sted than an integrated course currently will.
Phantasm, I leave it to the Government and the flying schools to put a positive spin on things. Something they're very skilled at.
I don't for one second buy this bull5h1t that we're talking ourselves into a recession and that all we need is love/confidence/quantatative easing. This is a depression. Its causes are massive imbalances in trade and living standards and the only inevitable solution is a lowering of living standards in the West, reduced consumption and the end of fairytale economics where we all got rich selling houses to each other. Those days are gone, they're not coming back and the airline industry they supported will have to whither and contract. It will. It is.
Like you I too am very very fortunate. Great job, home, wife and soon to be family. I've everything to be grateful and happy about and I am. But. I see the world as it really is with an insight of my own formed from my own research. Its how I called a house price crash, a recession and monetary crisis right here on these pages months or years before they happened. Airlines, big 'uns, on these shores will go bust. Pilots will be flipping burgers. It will be horrendous for Wannabes.
Its an ocean of depression true enough. Its your choice whether you dive in or not. Many are. <shrug>
WWW
I don't for one second buy this bull5h1t that we're talking ourselves into a recession and that all we need is love/confidence/quantatative easing. This is a depression. Its causes are massive imbalances in trade and living standards and the only inevitable solution is a lowering of living standards in the West, reduced consumption and the end of fairytale economics where we all got rich selling houses to each other. Those days are gone, they're not coming back and the airline industry they supported will have to whither and contract. It will. It is.
Like you I too am very very fortunate. Great job, home, wife and soon to be family. I've everything to be grateful and happy about and I am. But. I see the world as it really is with an insight of my own formed from my own research. Its how I called a house price crash, a recession and monetary crisis right here on these pages months or years before they happened. Airlines, big 'uns, on these shores will go bust. Pilots will be flipping burgers. It will be horrendous for Wannabes.
Its an ocean of depression true enough. Its your choice whether you dive in or not. Many are. <shrug>
WWW
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Phantasm????
Phantasm or in your dream?
Yes!!!! True!! Let's be confident, buy more, and eat more! This is the only possibility to escape this recession.
Because we need more debts. My house belongs to the bank, my car belongs to the bank, even my fridge!!! And the banks, where they get their money from?
Let' s buy more!!!
And eat more too. That is very important for the economy. That is why in america only 30% of the adults are not fat. But who cares!!! That is so good for the economy!
Sure, don' t look at the others being fired!!! And addition you are in a confortable situation no?
So you are not a pprune member right? And how would you know about the unpaid leave if you don' t read about it?
Yes? Even the one who has been fired, and cannot feed his family?
The one who has cancer, and will die in 3 month?
The African dude who has no leg because of the war and that is life is not worth a dog' s?
And what about this dirty, poor, uneducated Asian farmer?
If it helps economy, I will tell them myself: Hey guys! lets be positive ok?
You are so cool!!! Why now not calling out loud the ones fired loosers? Don' t keep it for yourself!
And me I am sick and tired of blind people leading us directly against the wall while saying, "but for me everything is fine".
For the record, I have a job. There is nothing personal. This way of thinking makes me sick, that is all.
Consumer confidence - two key words, and it is the lack of this that is fuelling the depression.
Because we need more debts. My house belongs to the bank, my car belongs to the bank, even my fridge!!! And the banks, where they get their money from?
Let' s buy more!!!
And eat more too. That is very important for the economy. That is why in america only 30% of the adults are not fat. But who cares!!! That is so good for the economy!
It does not help consumer confidence when people switch the TV on and watch how many people have been laid off.
Look, I am fortunate to be in a relatively (strictly speaking) comfortable position
Or go on PPRuNe to read about what the next airline is to offer unpaid leave.
I believe that if all 6 billion people on this planet (last time I counted) turned their attitudes right around and got positive, there would be a noticeable difference in how long the recession lasted.
The one who has cancer, and will die in 3 month?
The African dude who has no leg because of the war and that is life is not worth a dog' s?
And what about this dirty, poor, uneducated Asian farmer?
If it helps economy, I will tell them myself: Hey guys! lets be positive ok?
I count myself very fortunate to even have a job, and I go out of my way to ensure I will have it tomorrow.
in a way I am sick and tired of these 'phugoidial slumps', if there is such a phrase
For the record, I have a job. There is nothing personal. This way of thinking makes me sick, that is all.
Last edited by KAG; 15th Mar 2009 at 04:04.
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"soon to be family"... if I read that right congrats WWW!... you see its not all bad.... recession = more time at home and something good comes from it! 
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KAG,
On the whole, your points are completely irrelevant and have succeeded in missing the point entirely.
Your examples are no reflection on the economy; you'll find them in all walks of life, recession or no recession.
When the banks finally sort their business out, it still won't put a real leg on my old man.
On the whole, your points are completely irrelevant and have succeeded in missing the point entirely.
Your examples are no reflection on the economy; you'll find them in all walks of life, recession or no recession.
When the banks finally sort their business out, it still won't put a real leg on my old man.
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It's not all bad news:
Hydrogen to fuel green jets
If you want to know more here is the link to the reaction engines ltd
Hydrogen to fuel green jets
We have had the hydrogen-powered car, now meet the hydrogen aircraft.
A British company has developed an air-breathing hydrogen engine that could radically cut the environmental footprint of air and space travel.
Reaction Engines, based in Oxfordshire, has just secured a €1m (£926,000) grant from the European Space Agency (ESA) to advance its Sabre propulsion system.
Like a rocket engine, Sabre burns liquid hydrogen. But unlike a rocket, Sabre does not also require a supply of liquid oxygen to operate inside the Earth’s atmosphere; instead it grabs, cools and compresses its own supply from the air itself.
Although developed for the Skylon pilotless-spaceplane project, Sabre could be central to a new generation of hydrogen-fuelled aircraft.
Fossil-fuel-powered air travel is responsible for up to 3% of global carbon-dioxide emissions and is Britain’s fastest-growing source of greenhouse-gas emissions. But liquid-hydrogen fuel can be created from water, using electricity, and the Sabre’s only exhaust gas is steam.
The British-designed Skylon requires only a small supply of liquid oxygen (for operation at heights above 25km) and is light enough to take off from a standing start on an ordinary runway.
The entire vehicle is re-usable, and does not require expensive, exotic materials for its construction.
“We could conduct a test flight in 2018 and be in operation by 2020,” said Mark Hempsell, the future programmes director at Reaction Engines.
But first the engine has to be perfected. The ESA cash brings Sabre’s total seed money to about £6m — peanuts compared with the estimated £4.3 billion spent by America’s Nasa on similar hydrogen-engine projects.
The Americans have little to show for their investment, however. Reaction Engines has working prototypes of two of Sabre’s key components: the pre-cooler that handles the rush of incoming air, and the turbo-compressor that condenses it before feeding it to the engine.
Hempsell said: “Hydrogen is the fuel of the future for aeroplanes. It’s green and it’s efficient — although you can’t force hydrogen engines onto existing planes. The trick is to start designing on a blank slate, as we have done with Skylon.”
A British company has developed an air-breathing hydrogen engine that could radically cut the environmental footprint of air and space travel.
Reaction Engines, based in Oxfordshire, has just secured a €1m (£926,000) grant from the European Space Agency (ESA) to advance its Sabre propulsion system.
Like a rocket engine, Sabre burns liquid hydrogen. But unlike a rocket, Sabre does not also require a supply of liquid oxygen to operate inside the Earth’s atmosphere; instead it grabs, cools and compresses its own supply from the air itself.
Although developed for the Skylon pilotless-spaceplane project, Sabre could be central to a new generation of hydrogen-fuelled aircraft.
Fossil-fuel-powered air travel is responsible for up to 3% of global carbon-dioxide emissions and is Britain’s fastest-growing source of greenhouse-gas emissions. But liquid-hydrogen fuel can be created from water, using electricity, and the Sabre’s only exhaust gas is steam.
The British-designed Skylon requires only a small supply of liquid oxygen (for operation at heights above 25km) and is light enough to take off from a standing start on an ordinary runway.
The entire vehicle is re-usable, and does not require expensive, exotic materials for its construction.
“We could conduct a test flight in 2018 and be in operation by 2020,” said Mark Hempsell, the future programmes director at Reaction Engines.
But first the engine has to be perfected. The ESA cash brings Sabre’s total seed money to about £6m — peanuts compared with the estimated £4.3 billion spent by America’s Nasa on similar hydrogen-engine projects.
The Americans have little to show for their investment, however. Reaction Engines has working prototypes of two of Sabre’s key components: the pre-cooler that handles the rush of incoming air, and the turbo-compressor that condenses it before feeding it to the engine.
Hempsell said: “Hydrogen is the fuel of the future for aeroplanes. It’s green and it’s efficient — although you can’t force hydrogen engines onto existing planes. The trick is to start designing on a blank slate, as we have done with Skylon.”
If you want to know more here is the link to the reaction engines ltd
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Your examples are no reflection on the economy; you'll find them in all walks of life, recession or no recession.
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From the broad sheets today....
Britain's airports were hit by recession and high fuel prices last year, with 4.6 million fewer people taking to the air, the first passenger decline in 17 years.
The escalating cost of jet fuel in the first half of 2008 pushed up ticket prices while recession delivered a further blow to the air travel market in the second half. The 1.9 per cent decline in passenger numbers was the first drop since 1991 and only the fourth since the end of the Second World War, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said.
London's airports were hit particularly badly, with Stansted showing a 6 per cent drop, equivalent to 1.4 million passengers. Gatwick reported a 2.8 per cent drop as some airlines based there — including XL, the holiday group, Zoom and Oasis — went into bankruptcy.
London's loss was Paris's gain as Aeroports de Paris, which operates Charles de Gaulle and Orly, increased passenger numbers by 0.8 per cent.
The big fall in passenger numbers at Stansted and Gatwick is a serious concern for BAA, which owns them. BAA has put Gatwick up for sale and its price tag of about £1.8 billion could fall if bidders believe that passenger numbers will continue to decline. BAA is likely to be forced to sell Stansted when the Competition Commission delivers its report on airport ownership this month. It is expected to find that BAA's ownership of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted has been bad for passengers and airlines.
Traffic is likely to continue to decline, Harry Bush, the CAA group director of economic regulation, said: “The fall in passenger numbers is to be expected in light of the worsening economic situation during 2008. The early indications are that the larger falls seen in the last quarter of 2008 are continuing into the new year, with the prospect of declining traffic in 2009 overall.”
Not all airports in Britain suffered a drop in passenger numbers. Luton, for example, managed to increase traffic by 255,000 people, a 2.6 per cent gain. London City managed a 12 per cent rise, although the CAA said that its growth had slowed dramatically in the final quarter. The CAA highlighted that domestic air travel had fallen by 4.8 per cent, or 50 million journeys, as passengers switched to trains.
Britain's airports were hit by recession and high fuel prices last year, with 4.6 million fewer people taking to the air, the first passenger decline in 17 years.
The escalating cost of jet fuel in the first half of 2008 pushed up ticket prices while recession delivered a further blow to the air travel market in the second half. The 1.9 per cent decline in passenger numbers was the first drop since 1991 and only the fourth since the end of the Second World War, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said.
London's airports were hit particularly badly, with Stansted showing a 6 per cent drop, equivalent to 1.4 million passengers. Gatwick reported a 2.8 per cent drop as some airlines based there — including XL, the holiday group, Zoom and Oasis — went into bankruptcy.
London's loss was Paris's gain as Aeroports de Paris, which operates Charles de Gaulle and Orly, increased passenger numbers by 0.8 per cent.
The big fall in passenger numbers at Stansted and Gatwick is a serious concern for BAA, which owns them. BAA has put Gatwick up for sale and its price tag of about £1.8 billion could fall if bidders believe that passenger numbers will continue to decline. BAA is likely to be forced to sell Stansted when the Competition Commission delivers its report on airport ownership this month. It is expected to find that BAA's ownership of Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted has been bad for passengers and airlines.
Traffic is likely to continue to decline, Harry Bush, the CAA group director of economic regulation, said: “The fall in passenger numbers is to be expected in light of the worsening economic situation during 2008. The early indications are that the larger falls seen in the last quarter of 2008 are continuing into the new year, with the prospect of declining traffic in 2009 overall.”
Not all airports in Britain suffered a drop in passenger numbers. Luton, for example, managed to increase traffic by 255,000 people, a 2.6 per cent gain. London City managed a 12 per cent rise, although the CAA said that its growth had slowed dramatically in the final quarter. The CAA highlighted that domestic air travel had fallen by 4.8 per cent, or 50 million journeys, as passengers switched to trains.
By the time the figures are reported in this way in CAA official reports you are talking about things which were happening in the real world 18 months ago. The past year has been much much worse and widespread than the period covered by this report.
The next report cannot be anything other than horrific as it reflects the current crisis to date. Which has already seen a sharper, fuller, faster collapse than either the 1981 recession or the War (2, grudge re-match).
This is the phoney war stage. Phoney War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do not be lulled into thinking this is a short war nearly over. The big casualty numbers will come rolling in by Christmas rather than any Doves of Peace.
WWW
WWW
The next report cannot be anything other than horrific as it reflects the current crisis to date. Which has already seen a sharper, fuller, faster collapse than either the 1981 recession or the War (2, grudge re-match).
This is the phoney war stage. Phoney War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do not be lulled into thinking this is a short war nearly over. The big casualty numbers will come rolling in by Christmas rather than any Doves of Peace.
WWW
WWW
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Listen wannabes I got the news you all want to hear.
DO YOUR TRAINING NOW!
Integrated or modular just get it done ASAP.
A big splash in the daily express today saying that we are going to get crucified by taxes in the not too distant future to pay for the multi billion pound bailouts and vat reductions etc.
So be sensible and get your integrated courses booked now before vat goes up to 20% and your salary gets whacked by increased income tax. The savings will be in their thousands if you do it sooner rather than later. Its a great time to be a wannabe!
DO YOUR TRAINING NOW!
Integrated or modular just get it done ASAP.
A big splash in the daily express today saying that we are going to get crucified by taxes in the not too distant future to pay for the multi billion pound bailouts and vat reductions etc.
So be sensible and get your integrated courses booked now before vat goes up to 20% and your salary gets whacked by increased income tax. The savings will be in their thousands if you do it sooner rather than later. Its a great time to be a wannabe!
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Yeah that's great, all do your training now, you'll save thousands. Then when you qualify in a year's time you have to spend thousands renewing Multi Ratings, IRs etc etc & keeping current.
One can only assume your post was "tongue in cheak"
One can only assume your post was "tongue in cheak"
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Phantasm i take my hat off to you, the only one brave enough to go up against the recession pushers. I see your point and also WWW's but I suspect delivering bad news with such dramatic effect gives these people a bit of sick pleasure when they themselves are secure. It is suffice to say the outlook is very bleak for the next ?? years "don't consider throwing €80,000 away on an integrated course". No need for the repeated cramming of doom down our necks. I'm halfway to a fATPL and i'm nervous enough but my only hope is to stay positive or else it will be worthless. Negativity gets nobody nowhere it demotivates and demoralises. Live in the real world yes but focus on your goal and do whatever it takes to get there if you've already set out. Thanks for the glimmer
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I'm halfway to a fATPL and i'm nervous enough but my only hope is to stay positive or else it will be worthless.
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''Negativity gets nobody nowhere it demotivates and demoralises'' - Therefore it gets somebody somewhere, therefore be negative! No one is being negative, the sensible people on here are just being realisitic, open your eyes......
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UK recession will drag into 2010 as others recover, says IMF
A rather sobering article:
UK recession will drag into 2010 as others recover, says IMF - Times Online
Next time we vote remember not to vote for Gordon Brown 
UK recession will drag into 2010 as others recover, says IMF - Times Online
Britain’s economy is set to keep shrinking well into next year, even after all or most of its leading competitors have begun to enjoy renewed growth, the International Monetary Fund will warn this week.
In a severe blow to Gordon Brown’s hopes for an economic revival to take hold by Christmas, the IMF will predict that the UK economy will shrink in 2010 by a further 0.2 per cent.
In a severe blow to Gordon Brown’s hopes for an economic revival to take hold by Christmas, the IMF will predict that the UK economy will shrink in 2010 by a further 0.2 per cent.
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Emirates have stopped flying the A380 from NY to Dubai..... not enough demand..... that is a real eye opener as to how tought life is even down here in the desert.... although for some reason they have swtiched them on to the Bangkok and Toronto routes!
Won't be long before you see airlines in the Middle East delaying/cancelling orders.
Won't be long before you see airlines in the Middle East delaying/cancelling orders.