Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
Join Date: Nov 2000
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If it means anything, at least 30 houses have sold in the Troon area in scotland over the past 4 days.
There are a lot more sold signs up in Horsham as well
Phil
There are a lot more sold signs up in Horsham as well
Phil
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<edit>
Did you really *need* to use that language? If you can't express yourself politely - then you don't get to express yourself at all.
</edit>
<edit by R737>
I still think it's b******t
My apologies - however, going back to the original topic, it's not really axeing 200 jobs when offers will be made to those who wish to continue working at other bases. Fairly routine in an airline one would say...
</edit by R737>
Did you really *need* to use that language? If you can't express yourself politely - then you don't get to express yourself at all.
</edit>
<edit by R737>
I still think it's b******t
My apologies - however, going back to the original topic, it's not really axeing 200 jobs when offers will be made to those who wish to continue working at other bases. Fairly routine in an airline one would say...</edit by R737>
Last edited by Reluctant737; 13th Feb 2009 at 14:40.
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Does it?
Who are they being irresponsible to? The staff they need to pay wages to? The banks they need to repay? The shareholders who seek a return on their investment? The landlords who they lease premises from? The suppliers who furnish their constituent products?
They are a business looking to survive in very difficult times. They are not offering these secured loans, they are affiliating their marketing to the possible availibility of these loans. It is up to the customer (and obviously the bank) to decide if these loans are right for them. The customers are adults and having (unusually) been tested, have displayed at the very least, average intelligence. As such it is up to them to make adult decisions and as such that is where the responsibility ultimately rests.
Like any business, a flying school can only sell its products to somebody with the ability to pay for them. If you don't have the money, they are happy to point you towards people who will lend it to you on whatever terms that lender stipulates. That risk then falls to the borrower, and the seller secures a sale. That is what house builders do, car dealers do, furniture retailers, department stores, travel agents, private hospitals, dentists, lawyers, private schools, and almost everybody else with an interest in your wallet.
Does that "irresponsibility begger belief"? Well perhaps it does, but it is the way of the world, and the responsibility, or lack of it, falls squarely on the buyers shoulders.
Caveat emptor!
Who are they being irresponsible to? The staff they need to pay wages to? The banks they need to repay? The shareholders who seek a return on their investment? The landlords who they lease premises from? The suppliers who furnish their constituent products?
They are a business looking to survive in very difficult times. They are not offering these secured loans, they are affiliating their marketing to the possible availibility of these loans. It is up to the customer (and obviously the bank) to decide if these loans are right for them. The customers are adults and having (unusually) been tested, have displayed at the very least, average intelligence. As such it is up to them to make adult decisions and as such that is where the responsibility ultimately rests.
Like any business, a flying school can only sell its products to somebody with the ability to pay for them. If you don't have the money, they are happy to point you towards people who will lend it to you on whatever terms that lender stipulates. That risk then falls to the borrower, and the seller secures a sale. That is what house builders do, car dealers do, furniture retailers, department stores, travel agents, private hospitals, dentists, lawyers, private schools, and almost everybody else with an interest in your wallet.
Does that "irresponsibility begger belief"? Well perhaps it does, but it is the way of the world, and the responsibility, or lack of it, falls squarely on the buyers shoulders.
Caveat emptor!
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Fair point Bealzebub.
If these people aspire to make it to the LHS of a shiny tube at some point, they should be able to demonstrate at least an ounce of decision making at the start of their career.
If these people aspire to make it to the LHS of a shiny tube at some point, they should be able to demonstrate at least an ounce of decision making at the start of their career.
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Unfortunately there appears to be a persistent degree of negative postings throughout this thread, sadly such post merely reflect the present economic climate. However, I still retain a small bud of optimism. I sincerely feel this present economic crisis (correction) is not simply an altogether bad time for wannabes. Yes of course, I would be foolish to advise most, if not all to enrol on Oxfords latest integrated programme. Nevertheless, the notion of using the following 12 months or so to embark on completing the study of ATPL material via distance learning programme as a good option. This ensures the student time to budget their training appropriately to their finances, if not present an opportunity to indulge in part-time employment if absolutely necessary. I feel those of you presently studying for you examinations, try and remain focused as upon you training eventuating you may well be in a prime position. Nevertheless, I maintain those of you embarking on commercial flying as a career do so knowing the full extent of the situation. Remember, once you are qualified, you will most probably find yourself competing for positions with very experienced pilots. Unfortunately, those newly qualified pilots over the age of 30 will find it difficult, sadly, at 32, I am one of those; I am trusting on a strong university background and what we oldies term ‘life experience’ to negotiate the obligatory interview.
Like all cycles, things will recover; unfortunately, few appreciate the time scale required. I remain positive and feel we will begin a small turnaround by the end of this year, although as industry it may be 2012 before we feel this turn around. That said, I regularly revaluate and shift opinions appropriately
As I’ve stated on several occasions, I do not, nor possess having a thorough understanding of this plight, as the likes of the well conversed WWW, therefore, I suggest all wannabes take heed of his advice. Certainly, if you choose not to agree, please don’t be foolish enough to not question!
NB.... I may apply for one of those KFC positions...!!
Like all cycles, things will recover; unfortunately, few appreciate the time scale required. I remain positive and feel we will begin a small turnaround by the end of this year, although as industry it may be 2012 before we feel this turn around. That said, I regularly revaluate and shift opinions appropriately
As I’ve stated on several occasions, I do not, nor possess having a thorough understanding of this plight, as the likes of the well conversed WWW, therefore, I suggest all wannabes take heed of his advice. Certainly, if you choose not to agree, please don’t be foolish enough to not question!
NB.... I may apply for one of those KFC positions...!!
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Unfortunately, those newly qualified pilots over the age of 30 will find it difficult, sadly, at 32,
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It most probable that statement is my own insecurity, even self dread as I am 32 years of age. A consequence of the present economic crises will be numerous experienced pilots seeking employment, coupled with the fresher 22-26 year old. This agent alone will make things exceeding difficult, certainly NOT impossible for most over the age of 30. I’ve articulated this sentiment, as it has become apparent by most offering opinions on PPRUNE, which suggest I may well be too late, regardless of two degrees as well as post graduate of a leading university. I can assure you I wont be throwing in the towel, I will however, assess each stage of my training and proceed appropriately when the time necessitates. Presently, I still have most of the ATPLs remaining so wish me good luck! 
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I'm of a similar age and although i see your point i'm just going to go for it. I've dreamed of this for ages and i feel it's now or never. I'm timing my training to concide with what i perceive to be the upturn in the market using my own financial models. I dare not share them incase i'm wrong 
The competition is going to be tough but i'm hoping my life experience will get me there
Good luck Rugby!
The competition is going to be tough but i'm hoping my life experience will get me there
Good luck Rugby!
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As with most agents of want, those that maintain an inner desire as well as persistence will eventually attain, sadly cost may seriously impede this particular path way for most. Nevertheless, I for one feel intelligent enough to use my personal judgment as to the level of finical commitment I am able to apply at anyone time. Like most things apparent in life, all that is required is a level of common sense!
Best of luck…. !
WWW my dear chap, what would be your advice to a 32 year old mid ATPL studies..? As you will note from my posts, I sincerely respect your words of wisdom / advice. Thanks
Best of luck…. !
WWW my dear chap, what would be your advice to a 32 year old mid ATPL studies..? As you will note from my posts, I sincerely respect your words of wisdom / advice. Thanks
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There is no common sense in this business!
Alitalia on the brink.
Virgin to axe 600.
SAS to axe 3000.
That is maybe the reason for "negative" tone in this thread.
I see many instructors resigned to have to wait 12 - 24 months to even get a sniff of a job.
However in all this negativity I know of at least one company hiring, Wideroe newly had tests for hiring!
Myself I am at 39, and heading against all advice - trying to get trough my ATPL's and CPL/IR.
So I guess we just have to take the good with the bad, cross our fingers, and hope in the end we will get some tailwind, so the recession can end early.
I also believe there are jobs, if you are mobile and can get together money for TR. I know this is moraliy wrong and all, but having spoken to one very experienced pilot at SAS, he told me of people who paid their own TR, and was now flying in the middle east, asia and africa.
And the SAS captain, did not discourage me from pursuing this long and difficult path, altough he admitted it was much less financially rewarding then it was 20 years ago!
Alitalia on the brink.
Virgin to axe 600.
SAS to axe 3000.
That is maybe the reason for "negative" tone in this thread.
I see many instructors resigned to have to wait 12 - 24 months to even get a sniff of a job.
However in all this negativity I know of at least one company hiring, Wideroe newly had tests for hiring!
Myself I am at 39, and heading against all advice - trying to get trough my ATPL's and CPL/IR.
So I guess we just have to take the good with the bad, cross our fingers, and hope in the end we will get some tailwind, so the recession can end early.
I also believe there are jobs, if you are mobile and can get together money for TR. I know this is moraliy wrong and all, but having spoken to one very experienced pilot at SAS, he told me of people who paid their own TR, and was now flying in the middle east, asia and africa.
And the SAS captain, did not discourage me from pursuing this long and difficult path, altough he admitted it was much less financially rewarding then it was 20 years ago!
BMIBaby have made pilots redundant this month and Singapore Airlines has announced plans to send 17% of its fleet to the desert (they have aprox 2,200 pilots).
Its coming at the UK like a freight train - we will see the collapse of UK airlines and EU wide there will be dozens that will go under in the next 18 months.
This is a therefore a terrible terrible time to be a job hunting wannabe pilot. No two ways about it. I can't advocate anybody at any stage of life contemplating any training path to Wannabeism right now. This is not a dip, nor a slow down nor a plain boring old recession. This is either a severe recession or a depression. The breakneck expansion bubble of the airline industry that started in over a decade ago is going to come to a shuddering halt and then reverse.
I'm buying Gold in a Swiss vault. Its conceivably that bad.
WWW
Its coming at the UK like a freight train - we will see the collapse of UK airlines and EU wide there will be dozens that will go under in the next 18 months.
This is a therefore a terrible terrible time to be a job hunting wannabe pilot. No two ways about it. I can't advocate anybody at any stage of life contemplating any training path to Wannabeism right now. This is not a dip, nor a slow down nor a plain boring old recession. This is either a severe recession or a depression. The breakneck expansion bubble of the airline industry that started in over a decade ago is going to come to a shuddering halt and then reverse.
I'm buying Gold in a Swiss vault. Its conceivably that bad.
WWW
