Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
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WWW,
Those are guide prices that have fallen. A guide price isn't market value. You can probably find some Inverness homes that have fallen in market value, but you'd need actual sale prices to use as comps to establish declining market values. Keep looking and I'm sure you'll find some though.
Those are guide prices that have fallen. A guide price isn't market value. You can probably find some Inverness homes that have fallen in market value, but you'd need actual sale prices to use as comps to establish declining market values. Keep looking and I'm sure you'll find some though.
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This thread originally had the intent of something positive, to give some light at the end of the tunnel. The title IS 'Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us'. If there is no evidence, then let the thread go as all others do, and perhaps start another thread entitled 'reasons to be depressed'.
There is enough doom and gloom on these threads.
There is enough doom and gloom on these threads.
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God this debate is pointless! Across the UK house prices are down over 20% from the peak and still falling 1-2% per month. This is a cr*ppy situation and to say prices haven't fallen in some small town in Scotland is irrelevent.
What matters is bums on seats for airline pilots and this is getting much worse. It is not house prices in Inverness that matter.... it is the UK average and the general health of the city of London.... it is here the majority of highly profitable business class seats originate for the likes of BA etc.
I think we are getting a bit sidetracked here.... did you see Easyjets Feb passenger numbers... think I saw something on the news says they were down 7% year on year
Looks like even the lowcos aren't immune after all 
What matters is bums on seats for airline pilots and this is getting much worse. It is not house prices in Inverness that matter.... it is the UK average and the general health of the city of London.... it is here the majority of highly profitable business class seats originate for the likes of BA etc.
I think we are getting a bit sidetracked here.... did you see Easyjets Feb passenger numbers... think I saw something on the news says they were down 7% year on year
Looks like even the lowcos aren't immune after all
Getting sidetracked into pointless tangential discussions of a heated nature is What The Internet Is For.. 
And to balance the contribution made from the Daily Mail, this from the Guardian:
Business Feed Article | Business | guardian.co.uk
Meanwhile low-cost rival easyJet ended a long run of rising monthly passenger volumes by reporting a 6.8 percent fall in February on a year ago.
Air Berlin also reported a drop in its passenger numbers, down 8.5 percent in a month where matching 2008 levels was always going to prove more difficult because a leap year in 2008 meant there was an extra day of business a year ago.
BA had said on Wednesday it suffered an 8.3 percent fall in its passenger traffic, while Ireland's Ryanair has proved the only gainer to date with a 7 percent gain.
WWW
And to balance the contribution made from the Daily Mail, this from the Guardian:
Business Feed Article | Business | guardian.co.uk
Meanwhile low-cost rival easyJet ended a long run of rising monthly passenger volumes by reporting a 6.8 percent fall in February on a year ago.
Air Berlin also reported a drop in its passenger numbers, down 8.5 percent in a month where matching 2008 levels was always going to prove more difficult because a leap year in 2008 meant there was an extra day of business a year ago.
BA had said on Wednesday it suffered an 8.3 percent fall in its passenger traffic, while Ireland's Ryanair has proved the only gainer to date with a 7 percent gain.
WWW
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think I saw something on the news says they were down 7% year on year Looks like even the lowcos aren't immune after all
No one can deny it's bad. Equally no one on this forum shout spout forth, with such 'apparent' expert knowledge, as to what will happen, as with respect, there is no one on this forum qualified to do so.
We are in uncharted territory and no one knows the outcome.
Some of the sweeping statements and generalisations, delivered with such eloquence, could well come back to bite one on the arse!!!
Ah!, just noticed a simultaneous by WWW who has acknowleged positive!!!... (all be it small) in Ryanairs figs!
Last edited by clear prop!!!; 8th Mar 2009 at 09:09. Reason: www beat me to it wit nearly simultaneous post!
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Are Ryanair still recruiting 200 hr wanabees (honest question I don't know)
And to be honest 7% yoy at Ryanair must be the slowest growth rate for them in years. We must be just a couple of months away from them being ex-growth. Are they the only airline still growing??
Also I believe Aer Lingus has been publishing horrenous passenger numbers.
I think I agree with earlier comments made by WWW.... next winter is going to be a complete bloodbath for pilot recruitment.
And to be honest 7% yoy at Ryanair must be the slowest growth rate for them in years. We must be just a couple of months away from them being ex-growth. Are they the only airline still growing??
Also I believe Aer Lingus has been publishing horrenous passenger numbers.
I think I agree with earlier comments made by WWW.... next winter is going to be a complete bloodbath for pilot recruitment.
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Ryanair continue to recruit 250 hour pilots, albeit feeling the effects dovetailing down through the industry. New guys are going into a holding pool for a few months - I personally know somebody who's been offered a place on the type rating a few days ago looking at a start later in the year, so recruitment is ongoing.
I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that Ryanair's continued growth has something to do with the fact there are no lower fares in the world on similar routes... Charles Darwin and all that...
Good luck to them - morals or no morals, when we hit a bridge like this, there comes a time when customer service must strike a very, very fine line with minimising costs and maximising revenue. It's that, or the extinction of the business.
I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that Ryanair's continued growth has something to do with the fact there are no lower fares in the world on similar routes... Charles Darwin and all that...
Good luck to them - morals or no morals, when we hit a bridge like this, there comes a time when customer service must strike a very, very fine line with minimising costs and maximising revenue. It's that, or the extinction of the business.
And all those lovely new Boeings coming to coincide with the growth.
WWW
WWW
What you have to ask yourself and decide upon is where are we on the graph below?
Base your decisions on where you think we are. Thats the sort of rational, justifiable strategy that a commercial pilot could stand up in court and defend his decision based upon...
WWW
Base your decisions on where you think we are. Thats the sort of rational, justifiable strategy that a commercial pilot could stand up in court and defend his decision based upon...
WWW
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THE chief executive of Aer Lingus, Dermot Mannion, expects only 15 of Europe's 30 airlines to be in business by the end of the recession.....
Half of Europe's airlines 'will go out of business' - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
Half of Europe's airlines 'will go out of business' - Irish, Business - Independent.ie
Spains ndustrial output has fallen 24%. 352,000 people have lost their jobs in two months. The BBVA (massive Spanish bank which is the 7th largest financial institution in the Western world) expects unemployment to reach 20% - 4.5m.
Now.
There's so much data and so much going on in the world that its all just too much to take in. Yet a Wannabe need only consider the above situation in Spain. Spain has Vueling\Click, Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Air Nostrum, Iberworld, and a couple of small airlines plus the based aircraft of Air Berlin, Ryanair and easyJet.
You're talking several thousand pilots in significant airlines.
You simply cannot lose a quarter of your economy and have a fifth of your population unemployed and expect the airline sector to carry on as normal. Yet so far we've seen little in the way of cutbacks and nothing as far as bankruptcy. But how long do you think it will be until we do? What scale of retrenchment would look roughly appropriate? 5%? 15%? 25%?
Will there be many hundreds or a few thousand pilots out of work as a result of just the appropriate Spanish retrenchment? Do all of them speak some English and have the right to live and work in the UK?
Those are the sort of questions Wannabes need to be asking themselves.
Summer booking revenue will keep the plates spinning until the winter. Plan on a very harsh winter though. And a lot of broken plates..
WWW
Now.
There's so much data and so much going on in the world that its all just too much to take in. Yet a Wannabe need only consider the above situation in Spain. Spain has Vueling\Click, Iberia, Spanair, Air Europa, Air Nostrum, Iberworld, and a couple of small airlines plus the based aircraft of Air Berlin, Ryanair and easyJet.
You're talking several thousand pilots in significant airlines.
You simply cannot lose a quarter of your economy and have a fifth of your population unemployed and expect the airline sector to carry on as normal. Yet so far we've seen little in the way of cutbacks and nothing as far as bankruptcy. But how long do you think it will be until we do? What scale of retrenchment would look roughly appropriate? 5%? 15%? 25%?
Will there be many hundreds or a few thousand pilots out of work as a result of just the appropriate Spanish retrenchment? Do all of them speak some English and have the right to live and work in the UK?
Those are the sort of questions Wannabes need to be asking themselves.
Summer booking revenue will keep the plates spinning until the winter. Plan on a very harsh winter though. And a lot of broken plates..
WWW
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I would guess he means "major" carriers.... or is perhaps just trying to emphasize the scale of this downturn.... given he runs a flag carrier (albeit for a country who's economy is a complete car crash) one would think he is perhaps better informed than most.
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Surprised no one posted this.... upaid leave for "up to 2 years".... the length of the leave is eye catching... this is not just a couple of months...... perhaps tells you something about what SIA management think about the length and depth of this crisis... I say again you would have to be a numpty to do a IR/ME now.....
SINGAPORE, March 11 (Reuters) - Singapore Airlines (SIAL.SI), the world's biggest airline by market value, has asked staff to take unpaid leave for up to two years in a bid to reduce costs.
The scheme, which is voluntary, applies to the carrier's 14,000 employees, the Straits Times newspaper said on Wednesday.
An SIA spokesman confirmed the report when contacted by Reuters.
The Singapore carrier, which last month announced plans to cut its capacity by 11 percent and has grounded 17 of its 100-plus aircraft, has already asked pilots at its cargo arm to volunteer for unpaid leave. [ID:nSIN378742]
The carrier said last month its quarterly profit fell 43 percent, hurt by hedging losses and slowing demand for travel and cargo.
SINGAPORE, March 11 (Reuters) - Singapore Airlines (SIAL.SI), the world's biggest airline by market value, has asked staff to take unpaid leave for up to two years in a bid to reduce costs.
The scheme, which is voluntary, applies to the carrier's 14,000 employees, the Straits Times newspaper said on Wednesday.
An SIA spokesman confirmed the report when contacted by Reuters.
The Singapore carrier, which last month announced plans to cut its capacity by 11 percent and has grounded 17 of its 100-plus aircraft, has already asked pilots at its cargo arm to volunteer for unpaid leave. [ID:nSIN378742]
The carrier said last month its quarterly profit fell 43 percent, hurt by hedging losses and slowing demand for travel and cargo.
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I'm sorry to say chaps that www dire predictions are coming true. Here are a few stories i came across this morning:
Aer Lingus angers rival with profit warning
BAA cargo traffic dives 21% on economic slump
Aer Lingus admission of losses angers Michael O'Leary - Times Online
Aer Lingus angers rival with profit warning
BAA cargo traffic dives 21% on economic slump
The airline industry was shrouded in gloom yesterday as carriers revealed plunging profits or cuts in services. Lufthansa, one of the world's largest airlines, said that net profits had fallen by 64 per cent to €599 million last year and that this year would be even worse. Cathay Pacific, the Hong Kong-based airline, said that it had lost $1 billion (£724 million) in the second half of last year.
Air France-KLM revealed that it would cut its services by 3.4 per cent this summer because of lower passenger demand. This week, Delta, the American carrier, said that it would cut international capacity by an extra 10 per cent from September.
— Air Asia X yesterday provided a rare bright spot in aviation as it began low-cost flights to Malaysia, offering fares from London for as little as £99 one way to Kuala Lumpur.
The flights, out of Stansted, will connect with Air Asia's regional network in Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore.
Air France-KLM revealed that it would cut its services by 3.4 per cent this summer because of lower passenger demand. This week, Delta, the American carrier, said that it would cut international capacity by an extra 10 per cent from September.
— Air Asia X yesterday provided a rare bright spot in aviation as it began low-cost flights to Malaysia, offering fares from London for as little as £99 one way to Kuala Lumpur.
The flights, out of Stansted, will connect with Air Asia's regional network in Malaysia, Thailand and Singapore.