Proviation customer care problems
HWEST says
al-vin-thechipmunk says
That does not square with
- taken directly from the front page of the Proviation website.
FBW
They have taken on extra staff since becoming busier so to deal with customers more swiftly.
They've told you they're busy. And growing. And taking on staff.
Pilot Shop Update w/c 05 Aug - Fewer staff to take calls.
FBW
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This cannot continue
This is not right
He said to my post " We work closely with Sennheiser"
Ring Sennheiser and ask them about proviation. They have NEVER worked with PV, close or far away.
This guy just lies"!!!
FLY-BY-WIFE -- Yes
More Staff!! He has already said he and his wife runs this place.
If the company has fewer staff this week they are probably on holiday ha ha
you must discount HWEST banging on., he has already posted he is a paid consultant. In fact WEST, if you are reading this best to leave this forum
Your not a pilot and you are biased and do your client no favours in joining in with his lies
He said to my post " We work closely with Sennheiser"
Ring Sennheiser and ask them about proviation. They have NEVER worked with PV, close or far away.
This guy just lies"!!!
FLY-BY-WIFE -- Yes
More Staff!! He has already said he and his wife runs this place.
If the company has fewer staff this week they are probably on holiday ha ha
you must discount HWEST banging on., he has already posted he is a paid consultant. In fact WEST, if you are reading this best to leave this forum
Your not a pilot and you are biased and do your client no favours in joining in with his lies
Last edited by CaptainChaos981; 8th Aug 2013 at 21:55.
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Quote:I can tell you that there is a highly professional team behind the company.
I can't resist asking: a highly professional team of what?
I can't resist asking: a highly professional team of what?
Delusional comes to mind....It's all a 5h1t-fest by his jealous competitors , dontcha know
What makes you think that HWEST is not a pilot? He's posted on threads about air-law and a few other aviation topics where I think it would be unusual to have an opinion without having some practical experience.
I wonder who he is? 'Harold West furniture' doesn't seem to find anything useful on Google, and none of the Harold Wests on LinkedIn seem likely. Perhaps you'd like to identify yourself and tell us a little more about your background, so that we can be reassured that Proviation is in safe hands?
I wonder who he is? 'Harold West furniture' doesn't seem to find anything useful on Google, and none of the Harold Wests on LinkedIn seem likely. Perhaps you'd like to identify yourself and tell us a little more about your background, so that we can be reassured that Proviation is in safe hands?
Last edited by abgd; 10th Aug 2013 at 03:32.
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Given all the hoo hah here about this company, I thought it might be interesting to find out exactly what scale of business it is. For that reason I have looked at their published accounts.
They appear only to have filed one set of accounts, dated 29 February 2012 which shows a dormant nontrading company with assets of £100. The only director listed is Nick Ross who was appointed on 3/2/2012. That suggests that it was a newly established business at that time.
This doesn't necessarily mean much because companies are only obliged to file accounts annually, there is a nine month grace period in which they can do so and a lot may have happened since these accounts were filed.
That said, this does not look like a business of great substance nor does it have an established trading history and it is quite likely that the credit control departments of their suppliers, who will use these accounts to make credit decisions, may be reluctant to give them credit.
If that is the case, it does suggest a couple of obvious potential reasons why deliveries and refunds may be being delayed.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm not a customer and have not had a problem with them myself, but I just thought it worth posting this factual information for others to draw their own conclusions.
They appear only to have filed one set of accounts, dated 29 February 2012 which shows a dormant nontrading company with assets of £100. The only director listed is Nick Ross who was appointed on 3/2/2012. That suggests that it was a newly established business at that time.
This doesn't necessarily mean much because companies are only obliged to file accounts annually, there is a nine month grace period in which they can do so and a lot may have happened since these accounts were filed.
That said, this does not look like a business of great substance nor does it have an established trading history and it is quite likely that the credit control departments of their suppliers, who will use these accounts to make credit decisions, may be reluctant to give them credit.
If that is the case, it does suggest a couple of obvious potential reasons why deliveries and refunds may be being delayed.
I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm not a customer and have not had a problem with them myself, but I just thought it worth posting this factual information for others to draw their own conclusions.
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As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
As I said earlier I can't understand this thread. I'm post more out of bewilderment than any past association with the company.
For a quid I might grab some other pilot shops accounts and stick 'em on here, or is it just this store which is of interest? I've had disgruntled clients of other flying shops on the line to me before now ... they're lucky they haven't bothered posted on a forum. As I said, prob because they're longer established companies getting away with it.
Having said that they've been in business for over 5 years. Their legal state changed last yr I believe. If they didn't have Ltd co status I'm sure someone would complain too....and if they were on the stock market you'd be watching the share price.
Might I add a pilot shop in the north is run by a husband and wife. In fact I can think of at least 4. Some small some big. Is this suddenly a bad thing? Businesses established under this structure have strong leadership. Whoever's on here having a go about company structure and personnel and 'dealerships' get a life. You know who you are. I know who you are. Dunno why I don't just out you all. You seem to have no problem using someone's name in here despite it being against PP Ts and Cs. It's an invasion of privacy at the end of day.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed".
As I said earlier I can't understand this thread. I'm post more out of bewilderment than any past association with the company.
For a quid I might grab some other pilot shops accounts and stick 'em on here, or is it just this store which is of interest? I've had disgruntled clients of other flying shops on the line to me before now ... they're lucky they haven't bothered posted on a forum. As I said, prob because they're longer established companies getting away with it.
Having said that they've been in business for over 5 years. Their legal state changed last yr I believe. If they didn't have Ltd co status I'm sure someone would complain too....and if they were on the stock market you'd be watching the share price.
Might I add a pilot shop in the north is run by a husband and wife. In fact I can think of at least 4. Some small some big. Is this suddenly a bad thing? Businesses established under this structure have strong leadership. Whoever's on here having a go about company structure and personnel and 'dealerships' get a life. You know who you are. I know who you are. Dunno why I don't just out you all. You seem to have no problem using someone's name in here despite it being against PP Ts and Cs. It's an invasion of privacy at the end of day.
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Adding to the facts presented, Nick's own claim is that his business is five years old but as far as I understand, a sole-trader does not need to publish his accounts (publicly) - he only needs to submit a tax-return.
He wouldn't need to publish accounts if not a "limited company".
My research indicates that despite the airs and graces he puts on, Nick's "company" is really just him and his wife operating from a one bedroom flat in Dunstable and (by his own admission), outsourcing his "staff".
To put it bluntly, it appears that this "business" doesn't even rate up there with the hoards of drop-shipping muppets on eBay.
At least on eBay, one can rely on the fact that negative feedback is rarely removed and when a customer seeks resolution, he doesn't generally have to spend months spitting into the wind and banging his head against a wall or making public posts exposing the inherent disregard for customer service and contractual obligation.
Paul..
He wouldn't need to publish accounts if not a "limited company".
My research indicates that despite the airs and graces he puts on, Nick's "company" is really just him and his wife operating from a one bedroom flat in Dunstable and (by his own admission), outsourcing his "staff".
To put it bluntly, it appears that this "business" doesn't even rate up there with the hoards of drop-shipping muppets on eBay.
At least on eBay, one can rely on the fact that negative feedback is rarely removed and when a customer seeks resolution, he doesn't generally have to spend months spitting into the wind and banging his head against a wall or making public posts exposing the inherent disregard for customer service and contractual obligation.
Paul..
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Alvinthe Chipmunk
I'm not a Sciologist, just a pilot based at Cambridge who thought publishing something factual might help put the thread into context.
I have not published the name of any anonymous poster on here: Mr Ross's identity as the sole director of Proviation ltd is a matter of public record.
I have no connection whatever with any aviation business of any kind and the accounts information I posted didn't cost a quid: it is available free from this site:
. Company check for free company accounts.
I'm not a Sciologist, just a pilot based at Cambridge who thought publishing something factual might help put the thread into context.
I have not published the name of any anonymous poster on here: Mr Ross's identity as the sole director of Proviation ltd is a matter of public record.
I have no connection whatever with any aviation business of any kind and the accounts information I posted didn't cost a quid: it is available free from this site:
. Company check for free company accounts.
Last edited by Jonzarno; 10th Aug 2013 at 10:46.
My research indicates that despite the airs and graces he puts on, Nick's "company" is really just him and his wife operating from a one bedroom flat in Dunstable and (by his own admission), outsourcing his "staff".
Now previously on their website (as it appeared on Google cache of 18 Jul 2013 20:49:26 GMT) that address was Unit 2404, 318 High Street North, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 1BE.
Safestore Self Storage is the business at 318 High Street North, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 1BE, so it is not unreasonable to suppose that 2404 is a storage unit therein.
While I know that many successful small etailers use such self-storage facilities, and thus of itself this fact should be neither here nor there, I find it illuminating that the address should have been altered in the last few weeks.
Similarly, the fact that the house number between "CARTERS YARD" and "Frenchs Avenue" has also been removed in the same period.
It is also peculiar that the Main Operations/Dispatch Office location is Unpublished, given that the storage unit address is provided - albeit with the caveat:
Please note our address details are for our legally registered office only and is not permitted to allow visits due to insurance restrictions. If you wish to visit one of our dispatch offices, please contact us.
FBW
Might I add a pilot shop in the north is run by a husband and wife. In fact I can think of at least 4. Some small some big. Is this suddenly a bad thing?
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purchased just under a grands worth of kit..order acknowledgement stated a number of working days.
Didn't get delivered in that promised timeframe.
multiple attempts to get through to them. . ie Left several messages on the voicemail, several emails, never responded.
finally got through on the phone...promised a refund verbally, 'could take 7days'..didnt show in credit card account so chased again by voicemails and emails and finally, got money back.
not a pleasent customer experience, the worst company I have attempted to purchase from online...Their problem is a total lack of prompt communication.
Didn't get delivered in that promised timeframe.
multiple attempts to get through to them. . ie Left several messages on the voicemail, several emails, never responded.
finally got through on the phone...promised a refund verbally, 'could take 7days'..didnt show in credit card account so chased again by voicemails and emails and finally, got money back.
not a pleasent customer experience, the worst company I have attempted to purchase from online...Their problem is a total lack of prompt communication.
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
The R Project for Statistical Computing
and the 'stylo' stylometric package:
https://sites.google.com/site/computationalstylistics/
You could then download the contents of the thread, and create a selection of files containing a representative sample of each contributor's posts. You might need to add a few posts from other threads in order to obtain sufficiently large samples of each author's 'style'. You might also need to exclude some authors whose contributions to pprune have been minimal.
Obviously this could be a lot of work, so you could use a script such as the following Matlab or Octave file to do most of it automatically:
function parse_file(fname)
a = fopen(fname, 'r')
b = fopen('scratch', 'w');
while(!feof(a)),
myline = fgetl(a);
charline = 0;
if length(myline)>20,
datel = myline((end-9):end);
if (strcmp(datel(1:4), "2012") && datel(8)==":") || (strcmp(datel(1:4), "2013") && datel(8)==":"),
datel
charl = sscanf(myline(1: (end-19)), "%s")
charl = charl(charl!='_');
charl = charl(charl!='-');
fclose(b);
b = fopen([charl, '_text.txt'], 'a');
charline = 1;
end
end
if charline == 0,
fputs(b, [myline, 14, 11]);
end
end
fclose(a);
fclose(b);
You'd have to do a small amount of quote removal manually so that each author's file only contained his own output.
You would then move these files to a directory named 'corpus' and run stylo, which produces dendrograms such as this:
where works are arranged by similarity; those that were written by the same author tend to be grouped together.
Now, there are upwards of 50 contributors to this thread, so you would expect there to be a number of people whose writing styles resemble each other simply by chance. On the other hand, if you were to make a prediction that two or more authors were actually the same person then run the analysis, and later discover that their posts were stylometrically similar, you could feel considerable justification for your viewpoint.
Should a person choose to do this, I would suggest using the default stylo settings as they're likely to provide the most valid outputs by default. You could then vary some of the settings to see whether your conclusions were robust, but it would be very bad practice to vary the settings until you got the answer you expected/wanted.
Last edited by abgd; 12th Aug 2013 at 01:13.
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@abgd.......Are you seriously suggesting that a small group of posters have colluded to destroy the credibility of the subject-matter of this thread?
Most contributors would appear to be pilots....all would appear to be interested in Aviation.
So, you seriously expect a group of Aviation enthusiasts/professionals to download (or type) a load of mumbo-jumbo computer-code and execute it, simply because your good self suggests that it is an analytical programme to determine if this thread is genuine , or just a couple of competitors trying to scupper an upstart company.
Are you based in Nigeria or the "Eastern Bloc" IE....are you really a "Botnet" master trying to infect a load more computers?
Personally, I don't know or care. In the big scheme of things, this would appear to be a "one man and a dog" startup E-trader, who hasn't got all his ducks in a row and is attempting to bull or flannel his way out of difficult situations.
If there is no foundation in these allegations of poor service, lack of stock, deception and misrepresentation, Nick should start legal action against the libellous posters.
Sorry, I think this is yet another smoke-cloud to attempt to discredit people who have gone public with their dissatisfaction.
You already summed -up the nub of the matter in a previous post :-
"Aint that the truth" !
If I have misinterpreted your last post, I apologise and retract.
Most contributors would appear to be pilots....all would appear to be interested in Aviation.
So, you seriously expect a group of Aviation enthusiasts/professionals to download (or type) a load of mumbo-jumbo computer-code and execute it, simply because your good self suggests that it is an analytical programme to determine if this thread is genuine , or just a couple of competitors trying to scupper an upstart company.
Are you based in Nigeria or the "Eastern Bloc" IE....are you really a "Botnet" master trying to infect a load more computers?
Personally, I don't know or care. In the big scheme of things, this would appear to be a "one man and a dog" startup E-trader, who hasn't got all his ducks in a row and is attempting to bull or flannel his way out of difficult situations.
If there is no foundation in these allegations of poor service, lack of stock, deception and misrepresentation, Nick should start legal action against the libellous posters.
Sorry, I think this is yet another smoke-cloud to attempt to discredit people who have gone public with their dissatisfaction.
You already summed -up the nub of the matter in a previous post :-
If the company were working well, I don't think anybody would give two hoots about how it is structured or who it is run by.
If I have misinterpreted your last post, I apologise and retract.
Yes, you've misinterpreted my last post.
The programs I've linked to are well respected and used extensively in academia. Sure you have to download them, but those of us who use Linux, Firefox etc... do that on a regular basis. They're big projects with lots of references from other sites to authenticate them. The snippet of code I wrote myself is harmless, and anybody capable of running it can verify that for themselves.
No, the program wouldn't identify posters who were colluding with each other. What it would identify would be individual persons posting under several different usernames.
Alvin has alleged that there may be foul play in the thread, though he hasn't been specific about who he suspects. The problem with the analysis is that it's a very powerful way of testing suspicions, but not something that you can do as a 'fishing' expedition - because of a statistical issue known as the 'prosecutor's fallacy'. This is why I haven't just posted the results of the analysis here - unless you're clear about what you're looking for, you can't interpret them.
I had my own suspicions, which have been corroborated. I wonder what Alvins are - I suspect they're different from mine, but I'm still curious.
The programs I've linked to are well respected and used extensively in academia. Sure you have to download them, but those of us who use Linux, Firefox etc... do that on a regular basis. They're big projects with lots of references from other sites to authenticate them. The snippet of code I wrote myself is harmless, and anybody capable of running it can verify that for themselves.
Are you seriously suggesting that a small group of posters have colluded to destroy the credibility of the subject-matter of this thread?
Alvin has alleged that there may be foul play in the thread, though he hasn't been specific about who he suspects. The problem with the analysis is that it's a very powerful way of testing suspicions, but not something that you can do as a 'fishing' expedition - because of a statistical issue known as the 'prosecutor's fallacy'. This is why I haven't just posted the results of the analysis here - unless you're clear about what you're looking for, you can't interpret them.
I had my own suspicions, which have been corroborated. I wonder what Alvins are - I suspect they're different from mine, but I'm still curious.
Last edited by abgd; 12th Aug 2013 at 10:46.
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@abgd Thank you for your courteous reply. My computer runs Ubuntu, Firefox and Opera. Recently had some instability issues,(hardware, overheating) but basically untouched for about 4 years. I have never needed or wanted to run programmes of the type you posted. If a person / persons is / are using multiple user-names in order to make defamatory posts, I stand by the suggestion that nick should take prompt action to try and salvage some credibility. (I have had a short PM dialogue with Nick)
I've no dog in this fight, just hate to see immoral and unethical business practises, whether by customer or trader. just a shame to keep seeing these apparent problems and the responses.
Anyone in business will get it wrong occasionally, the way it's fallout handled is paramount . I think that is where Nick needs to expend a lot more time and effort, if the negative comments are to be believed.
I've no dog in this fight, just hate to see immoral and unethical business practises, whether by customer or trader. just a shame to keep seeing these apparent problems and the responses.
Anyone in business will get it wrong occasionally, the way it's fallout handled is paramount . I think that is where Nick needs to expend a lot more time and effort, if the negative comments are to be believed.
If a person / persons is / are using multiple user-names in order to make defamatory posts, I stand by the suggestion that nick should take prompt action to try and salvage some credibility.
abgd's posts, together with PPRuNe Towers' post suggest to me that it might not be Nick that has the problem with people using multiple user names.
FBW
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I wish I could even get as far as after sales service...I'm still waiting for a product I ordered over a month ago, and cannot get through to them via phone, email or the live chat facility on their website. Doubt I'll see that cash again
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Weather - Deep depression looming
I am an accountant now retired living in Spain. Normally we buy through Amazon as they are totally reliable. Occasionally we buy from the UK via other internet suppliers. I wanted a Solar Wireless Weather Station and came across, regrettably, Proviation who supposedly had them in stock. Suppliers to you pilots! (my brother is a pilot) I thought they are probably ok, and £5 cheaper than Amazon!!! Great…..not great…
On 22 July 2012 I placed my order for a Watson Solar Wireless Weather Station. Proviation confirmed the order and, as with all you other punters, they took my money immediately. By 26 July I had heard nothing further so phoned them. No answer! So sent an email asking for a despatch date. By August 2012 still nothing and I was now starting to get worried and it was then I came across this web site!!! That made me even more worried. Eventually I was notified that it had been despatched, but the Tracking number didn’t work. Thankfully it did turn up at the end of August.
The product is guaranteed for 2 years. My weather Station was set up and working well until 16 January 2013 when all the Light readings-UV, Lux and hours of sunshine all became zero. This is not possible up in the mountains of southern Spain. So rang Proviation a number of times and either no answer or message. By 23 Jan. nothing so emailed and phoned many times.Eventually managed to speak to Nick Ross and he agreed to send a replacement for the faulty part. It is now mid-August and still I do not have the replacement part. In this saga there are 43 emails (most unanswered) and scores of attempted phone calls. Nick blamed a chronic shortage of parts and then his supplier. He said he had asked Waters & Stanton to send the part but this never arrived.He then suggested I buy the part from his supplier-www.wsplc.com which turned out to be Waters & Stanton.
By the end of June I was getting nowhere and becoming very frustrated. So I looked at this web site again for inspiration and came across Dave Gittin’s email of 3 October 2012. Eureka- I purchased the Weather Station through Barclaycard. On 15 June I emailed Nick Ross saying send me a replace Weather Station within 7 days or I will claim a refund from Barclaycard. By 27 June still nothing from Nick Ross so I advised him I was putting in a claim to Barclaycard. On 15 July I posted my claim to Barclaycard, with copies of all the emails. On 30 July I phoned Barclaycard to ensure they had received my claim. Not only did they confirm that they had received the claim they advised that a refund had been made the previous day. So for me the cloud had a silver lining, at least I got my money back, but the Weather Station is still not working so I will go and search elsewhere for a solution
I have had a very frustrating year with Proviation. They are absolutely the worst internet supplier I have ever come across and will certainly never use them again. [Unsubstantiated accusation removed] I think the days of Proviation are numbered.
On 22 July 2012 I placed my order for a Watson Solar Wireless Weather Station. Proviation confirmed the order and, as with all you other punters, they took my money immediately. By 26 July I had heard nothing further so phoned them. No answer! So sent an email asking for a despatch date. By August 2012 still nothing and I was now starting to get worried and it was then I came across this web site!!! That made me even more worried. Eventually I was notified that it had been despatched, but the Tracking number didn’t work. Thankfully it did turn up at the end of August.
The product is guaranteed for 2 years. My weather Station was set up and working well until 16 January 2013 when all the Light readings-UV, Lux and hours of sunshine all became zero. This is not possible up in the mountains of southern Spain. So rang Proviation a number of times and either no answer or message. By 23 Jan. nothing so emailed and phoned many times.Eventually managed to speak to Nick Ross and he agreed to send a replacement for the faulty part. It is now mid-August and still I do not have the replacement part. In this saga there are 43 emails (most unanswered) and scores of attempted phone calls. Nick blamed a chronic shortage of parts and then his supplier. He said he had asked Waters & Stanton to send the part but this never arrived.He then suggested I buy the part from his supplier-www.wsplc.com which turned out to be Waters & Stanton.
By the end of June I was getting nowhere and becoming very frustrated. So I looked at this web site again for inspiration and came across Dave Gittin’s email of 3 October 2012. Eureka- I purchased the Weather Station through Barclaycard. On 15 June I emailed Nick Ross saying send me a replace Weather Station within 7 days or I will claim a refund from Barclaycard. By 27 June still nothing from Nick Ross so I advised him I was putting in a claim to Barclaycard. On 15 July I posted my claim to Barclaycard, with copies of all the emails. On 30 July I phoned Barclaycard to ensure they had received my claim. Not only did they confirm that they had received the claim they advised that a refund had been made the previous day. So for me the cloud had a silver lining, at least I got my money back, but the Weather Station is still not working so I will go and search elsewhere for a solution
I have had a very frustrating year with Proviation. They are absolutely the worst internet supplier I have ever come across and will certainly never use them again. [Unsubstantiated accusation removed] I think the days of Proviation are numbered.