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Proviation customer care problems

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Proviation customer care problems

Old 12th Feb 2014, 18:20
  #541 (permalink)  
 
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All your own fault, Nick.... writing stuff down won't force people to believe stuff contrary to their own experiences

All your own fault.
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Old 12th Feb 2014, 22:18
  #542 (permalink)  
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Proviation customer care problems

Proviation, what is the point of posting all that crap when everyone on here knows, quite independently, that it's total bollocks? I know you're talking crap because I had precisely the experience that many others have described. The only thing wrong with this latest development is that it has taken so long to happen.
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Old 12th Feb 2014, 23:28
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I am no expert in writing styles, but that very lengthy saga a few posts up does not suggest it was written by the same person that I recognise as Proviation, perhaps a grown up is now helping
For what it's worth, it does seem to have been written by the same person as previous Proviation posts. Plenty of it to analyse!

Last edited by abgd; 13th Feb 2014 at 05:19.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 09:04
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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Well i am confused

Usually when a business sadly closes down, the current business model is stopped and a prominent announcement made.

Proviations website is still taking orders, you just cannot pay for them
A strange one line only message says simply, we cannot accept cards AT THIS TIME on a hard to find news page.

The basket page will not allow you to pay, but if you are customer and got to that point you are bound to ring up and ask why, so maybe there is a back way being employed to take more customers money.

His trustpilot page reviews are still "being edited" one would guess by proviation themselves and despite signing off on this forum, announcing this would be the last time he would state his position on prune, he has continued to populate this thread 3 times with large diatribes and no doubt respond to this one.

If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?

I don't think we have seen the last of this one.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 11:17
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I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there.

He claims to have a security bond (SUBSTANTIAL ! no less!) lodged with the card- provider......Well, I'm no clairvoyant but I've a strong suspicion that it is considerably less than the amount owed to people who paid for non-existent goods.

Many posts ago, I stated that any creditor should pursue a refund agressively, before the pot ran dry. I also suggested that today's payments were paying yesterday's refunds,the unclaimed balance being used to keep the Ross lifestyle and the Proviation money-rake operating.

I might even have alluded to Bernie Madoff and Ponzi-schemes.

Well, Mr. Ross, FYI there are some situations where a Company Director cannot hide behind a Limited Liability Company.

Libellous statements against individuals.
Fraudulent trading.....Deception.

Had you taken note of the well-intentioned P.M's from experienced businessmen, showing you how to restore credibility and trade with integrity, Proviation could have been a market-leader.

You wilfuly ignored that advice and a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims.

You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?
Where's all the money paid for non-existent goods?

I do hope a proper investigation is carried out. Remember, the family home could be siezed, you gould face criminal charges....
Thinking you can get away with what's been going on, is indeed delusiory.

Go se your doctor! If, indeed, your actions have been as a result of Mental Illness, that would be a defence in Court.

TO ANYONE OWED MONEY......CONTACT YOUR CARD-PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY AND COPY THE TRADING-STANDARDS OFFICE AND cHIEF cONSTABLE OF THE AREA POLICE,WHERE PROVIATION WAS BASED.

DO NOT DELAY, IT ONLY COSTS 3 STAMPS AND A FEW PHOTOCOPIES. You may see justice!
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 11:36
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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This is actually the correct place to which to direct fraud complaints according to a rather helpful constable at Bedfordshire Police.

Action Fraud | Report fraud and internet crime

0300 123 2040

Paul..
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 12:11
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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Proviation customer care problems

Nick is a liar and thief plain and simple he took money from my account in September and I have received no good at a cost of close to £700. Despite numerous emails and calls and your assistant alex saying he would chase up you are a pure liar.

I suggest you pay people back for the money that they have worked hard for and not cheated like you.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 12:16
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"I think Nick truly believes his own hype.
Sad, deluded man, makes serious, libellous allegations against Paul Kerry......he has a potential personal liability, there."

- Of course I believe it!
- You don't know Paul Kerry? I do. We shipped goods to him, and I know others who know this individual and his background

"flood of defrauded victims." We set up a business to buy, sell and ship goods to end users which has happened successfully thousands of times. I have kept meticulous records, shipping receipts and exported our order management system to a secure server for future records. A company which subscribed to consumer organisations, regulatory compliance, with hundreds of suppliers internationally is not a company seeking to defraud.

My lifestyle for 6 years has been one of hard work almost without a day's break. Those on here continuing trying to hack personal information of mine will have IPs logged.

Any investigation into my personal affairs will reveal that I ring-fenced money into the company. I could have walked away in October but instead I raised finance in order to take on a new merchant company and continue the business, which was the responsible move to make to ensure our creditors would continue to be paid. My lifestyle has been one of absolute dedication to running the company. It sickens me to be tained on this thread that I behaved any differently.

The contradictory remarks here are extraordinary. Surely I would not plough money into an indefinite merchant holding account if I was seeking to defraud customers- who would invariably go to chargeback and thereby close the merchant account. As director I will report to the official receiver and surrender my records.
My personal finances will reveal I barely took any wage at all and re-invested all profits into the company. At one point in October I used personal credit cards to pay for goods in order to keep the company moving. I now have no recourse on that and still have these bills to pay, somehow.
All of our outstanding orders for the last 30 days have been refunded and I have kept a list of all of these refunds which were processed on 10th and 11th Feb and this has already been emailed to my contacts in organisations with whom I wanted to work closely and benefit from advice from.


"a trickle of dissatisfied customers became a flood of defrauded victims." Your choice of words is mind boggling. When was this flood? I see the same names on this forum time and time again. We processed 3886 orders in the 6 months to 02 Feb 2014?

"You milked the company dry...where's all the stock?" The stock will be sold off by the receiver. I can't touch stock for personal use! Money was ring-fenced and the business made pre-tax trading losses in its first year as a limited company following a smaller loss in 2012. Our average order value was Ł127. Base that over 12 months and you have a company turning over up to 1M. As a limited company all accounts are compiled by chartered accountant. I have submitted my self assessment which indicates I have in fact earned under the tax threshold. I have not claimed any expenses since July 2012 and my wage was barely taken. Our overheads had crept up and up, advertising costs too; however the aim was growth and price competition.

"If this business really has closed down, its the strangest wind down in history. Why leave yourself open to more potential problems?"

Hello 'A'. The site is online so the news page can be shown. See my previous remark. I can't replace the shop with a generic page at the moment. Ask 1&1 - you might have plenty of time to spend on the phone to them today. Believe it or not, I don't.

Part of my posting here is part of the winding down process to ensure that I make it patently clear that I have not behaved as some rogue trader in the running of this company; that instances of poor service were addressed; and that the majority of orders were satisfied. It is an undisputed fact in terms of the ratio of complaints which have been formalised.

People have mis-read my comments below as I shift of blame. I am wholly responsible for the company and this is what I signed-up to. The salient points are there to give you insight into what happened for anyone who cares enough about the mechanisms behind the failure. What you here do is criticise, instances of poor service- you do not know the mechanisms behind the problem and you can't possibly know this unless you worked in the company, or you take note of my account in my previous posts.

As I have mentioned, everything is recorded, and the financial picture of the company will be ascertained by a licenced professional, who will also note, in clear numbers, how trigger events caused this failure. Copying and pasting reviews does not change this.

Last edited by Proviation; 14th Feb 2014 at 13:15. Reason: Deleted comment in order to re substantiate
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 12:24
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Oh wow! Busted ! I have a YouTube account.

I am such a deviant !

Shoot me now !

.. and of course, that YouTube channel proooooooves all of your bogus and libellous allegations against me. NOT!

I hope you are prepared to put your money where your mouth is.
(Actually, it matters not whether or not you are prepared - you just goofed big-style - a later post will elucidate and I will explain where it is that Nick is getting his false information and what is not known by his sources)

[EDIT: I notice that Nick has removed the reference to my YouTube channel. I suspect that he realises that examination of my posts on that channel actually contradict his claims - Ooooops ! ]

Paul..

Last edited by PaulKerry; 16th Feb 2014 at 13:24.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 13:29
  #550 (permalink)  
 
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Proviation customer care problems

Nick all I want to know is when will I get my refund for goods your promised and clearly not going to deliver.

I am extremely disappointed despite all the email replies and your emails saying there was a supplier delay this is clearly fraudulent ...
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 16:50
  #551 (permalink)  
 
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Interestingly, the Proviation (still active) website shows the Zaon XRX available in 7-14 days. A product for which the manufacturer has gone out of business.


You couldn't make it up.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 18:02
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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To be fair, so long as the website has stopped taking any method of payment I don't think there's anything to reproach Nick for regarding leaving it up.
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 18:08
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To be fair, so long as the company has stopped taking any method of payment I don't think there's anything to reproach Nick for regarding leaving the website up.

(Bearing in mind the suggestion that existing customers might call and ask if they can have their order).

Hey, it's going to be rather annoying and inconvenient to fill up a virtual shopping basket with goodies only to find that they cannot be purchased and shipped but better that than the previous situation where customers were deceived into handing over money for items which were never going to be shipped.

That's got to be an improvement all-round, I'd say.

Paul..
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 19:03
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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REALLY! NICK! My profile shows you Iam not some smartass slick spivvy conman I'm far too old for that! but I know one when I see one.

At the very start of this thread, I tried to help you...from our PM's it became rapidly apparent to me, you were embarking on a course to trade Proviation into the ground.
You claim a pro-rata million pound turnover, yet made a loss?
A business model that has such poor results as your heart-rending story of self-sacrifice would have us believe, , would have ceased trading as soon as the lack of profits manifested itself......yet the money materialised to set-up and have hosted a pseudo "trade association"
you paid a minimum of Ł75 a month for Trustpilot to host "reviews" which were not impartially audited and were obviously full of fake posts.
Awebsite is the shop window of any On-Line business....perhaps the hosting difficulty you experienced, was due toyour breach of the Host's terms? -Or perhaps you used a poor choice of hosting Co.?

Don't know or care...but I know rather more than you think I do!

The number of postings since this thread started, the complaints to your local Trading Standards, the number of complaints to your local Police -Force......all during this period.....remember?

You pleaded that it was "growing pains" ---in a company that had "successfully traded" for four (or was it 5) years......so, after 4 years you still hadn't got a handle on expansion?- YEAH! RIGHT!

Even if I charitably suggest you were out of your depth, despite not making money, you didn't twig?

Hells Bells, you really are a slow learner, aren't you?

Still in denial, still bullshitting, still cust....err VICTIMS waiting for "close to Ł700"...and that's only one of how many?

I bet your meticulously presented books are, indeed, pure as the driven snow.....
The really big players, like Asil Nadir, the Enron management, Bernie Madoff...they all had" professionally Audited accounts "
I bet they paid a lot more than you, as well.

Your accounts are worth less than the cost of the paper and ink.

Sorry, Nick, "Methinks the man doth protest too much"
Your chickens are coming home to roost. you will reap what you've sown.

Oh, and what about all those suckers who just gave up trying to get their goods or a refund?....you built up a lot of ill-will, there!

Was it really worth it, Nick?
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 19:09
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Who were Nick's most recent merchant service providers?
I think I will add them to my Christmas card list.

Paul..
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Old 13th Feb 2014, 22:34
  #556 (permalink)  
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Notice to all - this isn't a schlock horror gothic fantasy. Any more posts like the last couple I just deleted (you know who you are) and this thread is history.

Outraged Daily Mail hypertension addicts are bad enough, albeit just about tolerable, but the last two crossed the line.

A bit of decorum, please.

Nick's posts may have been fanciful but they were never disgusting.

SD
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Old 14th Feb 2014, 05:50
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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Some questions and thoughts for Proviation

As I said in my first post on this thread: I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not a customer of Proviation. As the thread has developed, I have tried to post in a balanced and factual way (mostly!). Also, as I said in my last post, I don't like to see any business go bust like this as invariably innocent people get hurt when it happens.

In that spirit, I have a few questions / thoughts arising from the recent Proviation posts.

1. Is Proviation being targeted or the victim of malicious attacks?

If it is, any right thinking person should utterly condemn it. Well I would anyhow. So is it true?

Mr Ross says:

“We got wise to 'customers' ordering very small items shipping to fake addresses.”

Can he quote examples? How does he know they are fake addresses? Why would it matter anyway if he can provide proof of delivery?

Also, if it's a genuine card but a fake address different from the one to which the card is registered, I always thought that the payment wouldn't be authorised.

He says: “We attracted many good reviews recently which Paul Kerry did not want you to see. He blocked them.”

That's quite an allegation. Can Mr Ross explain how a third party can simply “block” a review with no evidence? Query it, perhaps, but block it?

Equally, the allegation was frequently made that Proviation was causing genuine critical reviews to be suppressed. Can they provide verifiable details of their grounds for doing so or refute the allegation that they did?"

Mr Ross says: “We believe we have been heavily targeted in recent times by those wishing to harm the company’s reputation”

Why does he think people have tried to do this?

There has indeed been a very large number of negative comments about Proviation customer service posted here from a wide range of customers both from the UK and abroad.

Is he saying that they are all fake and that the way in which Proviation has managed customer service has not been the main cause of the problems?

In the first post, he talks about someone “representing the interests of a competitor”.

That's also quite a serious allegation and, if true, customers should know the details. I for one would not want to trade with a business that would do something like that.

So who was it, and which competitor? What proof of this is there?

It does seems a bit strange, though, that no other player in this market seems to have been targeted.


2. Loss of merchant account

Proviation says that: “We received a spate of 8 chargebacks covering a two day period” and “We submitted defences for all but 2 claims”.

Wow! Given that claimants can not start the process without showing that they have tried to get the supplier to resolve a problem themselves and, to make it stick, they then need to provide full justification: that would seem to bear out at least some of the complaints about problems with broken promises and inability to contact customer service.

As a data point: for the last ten years, I have been Chairman of a company which does part of it’s business by credit card. In all that time we have never had a single charge back claim, never mind failed to defend one. The post from Proviation reads as though it's quite a normal part of doing business. It isn't, and I recall pointing out the potential consequences on this thread last year.


3. Charging cards before shipment

Reputable companies don't do this.

Proviation says: “We had the facility in place not to charge cards, and most of these were only charged as they had been sent, part sent, or were pending delivery or refund for cancellation/return”

Sorry, but everyone has “the facility in place not to charge cards” before delivery at all. You, erm, don't charge the card until you ship. Simples!

Question: how often did Proviation charge cards before shipment and, if they did so, why?

As they seem to have found: if you do that, and then have delivery delays and don't deal with them, what happens is:

“We received notification from the merchant bank that the sudden chargebacks had prompted a risk assessment of the company”

Confucius he say: “further comment like nightie on honeymoon: superfluous....”


5. Paul Kerry

Presumably that is who is meant by:

“In the case of the main individual on this forum; he lacks this balance. Undeniable through the contradictory comments he has left; his desire to not see the Company address issues; his un-called for, personal attacks on an individual, his distortion of the truth and the very fact that he feels the need to lie about his background and circumstances. “

In particular, Paul Kerry stands accused of “distortion of the truth” and “the need to lie about his background and circumstances”

Again, that's quite an allegation. Can Mr Ross substantiate it? If so, Paul Kerry has a lot to answer for. If Mr Ross can't, then I would suggest that he does.


6. The last few posts here have raised the possibilities of Mr Ross incurring personal commercial liability, despite Proviation having been a limited company, as well as even potential criminal prosecution.

Reading what I have read here, I would advise him quite strongly not to discount either possibility, and to be very active in dealing with the issues that could quite easily cause these things to happen.


7. A final quote from Mr Ross's last post:

“My lifestyle has been one of absolute dedication to running the company. It sickens me to be tained on this thread that I behaved any differently.”

If that's meant to be genuine, a good first step towards coming out the other side of this situation with a chance to make good, would be a demonstrable willingness to face up to the issues that led to this dreadful outcome, acknowledge responsibility for them and, if it isn't too late, be seen to try to deal with them.
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Old 14th Feb 2014, 07:26
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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...the allegation was frequently made that Proviation was causing genuine critical reviews to be suppressed
Nick has admitted doing this and tried to justify doing it here in this very thread when he wrote:
As a company we are encouraged not to block negative reviews. In many cases we don’t; but in some examples where we find a situation unacceptable, we have, in order to communicate with the buyer. But mostly, to prevent scare-mongering on this thread, the copying of the review, and in order to prevent any undue panic among customers if the subject of the review was based on an unavoidable outside problem.
Flagging those reviews as in violation of TP ToS is dishonest no matter what his personal reasons may be and is completely incongruent with his claims to always having acted with honesty and integrity.
Also, the reviews were being reposted as a result of the flagging campaign on negative reviews. If the negative reviews weren't being flagged down, they would never have been reposted here.
To claim that they were being flagged to prevent them being posted here is putting the cart before the horse. Cause leads to effect, not the other way around.

His claim that I have " for the last 12 months consistently blocked positive reviews of legitimate customers" is a falsehood.
In fact, some pages back, I even asked those who were doing so to cease because it was muddying the waters.

There was a series of about three reviews recently which I suspected to be fake. I flagged them.
There have also been one or two reviews which have used "names or personal details" and seeing that Nick flags negative reviews for such violations, it was only fitting that his positive ones be flagged for the same.
However, in total, I think I can count no more than about six reviews which were flagged by myself and the person responsible for the recent spate of flagged positive reviews actually put his hands up to it in this thread, yet still Nick falsely accuses me of that.

His claim that I am not working is untrue as is his claim that the client I mentioned to him does not exist.

http://www.internal-reflections.com/...cyFuExists.mp3

This interview is an accurate representation of the conversation that took place and my thanks go to Tracy (a researcher in what she calls the "shopper-marketing" industry) for taking the time to do this and allowing me to post it here. It's worth a listen because not only does she outright contradict many of Nick's claims she also says some interesting things about him, his attitude and his business.

I have edited out some dead-space, a few things that were said which related to personal details and a phone-call which occurred during the conversation but other than that, it is unadulterated.

As for his claims that I am working illegally, he has got that idea by talking to another supplier of aviation products and said supplier's engineer.
These are people who know me personally... Or, at least did some years ago.

Some time ago, I suffered an injury to my spine which meant that going out to work was not possible and for a period of time, I claimed benefits due to my inability to work.
What these people, and hence, Nick do not know is that after I got married, unwilling to remain in the benefit-trap, I registered as self-employed, taking myself off those benefits in the process.
Even though I did not make any money for quite a while, I worked at creating a means of working from home in such a way that whatever my state of mobility, it would still be possible to be productive.
With the help of my wife, I dug myself out of the hole I was in and am now providing a very popular service to clients who are queuing for weeks and in some cases, months, to make use of my service... and they are well aware of how long they will have to wait. No-one is deceived as to how long they will have to wait or what it is that I provide and they are still happy to book in advance for the chance to get onto my schedule.
In the interview, a reseller is mentioned. This reseller is not the only reseller of my services and about a year ago, another reseller booked time on my schedule just for the chance to talk to me and ask me to allow them to resell my time.

Never did I tell Nick that I am an expert in business strategy although I did offer to pass him on to one - the lady interviewed in the mp3 supplied.

If Nick truly believes that I am working illegally, then I suggest that he report me to the DWP. They will check their records and determine that his accusation is unjustified. After all, I've been submitting tax-returns for some years, now. If I were doing that and claiming unemployment benefits, I think they'd have come a-knocking before now.

Nick also claims that I am not who I say I am. Really? Who do I claim to be? Where is it in this thread (or anywhere else) that I claim to be anyone or anything?
As far as my username goes, it isn't my full name but I could call myself Fred Flintstone on an Internet forum, it doesn't mean that I am claiming to be married to Wilma and have a best friend called Barney!


Question: how often did Proviation charge cards before shipment and, if they did so, why?
A post on his own website would suggest that the answer to that is all of them up until Nov 2013.

Similarly we have been able to withhold charging cards since November 2013 for orders which could not be immediately fulfilled,
This is a lot shorter than the one I was intending to give.
However, wanting to strike whilst the iron is still hot and being rather short on time right now, I decided to provide these details for the time being.
I still intend to cover some of the other untruthful things that Nick has posted about myself and the order I placed.
I am not the one distorting the truth, here. Nick's account of the details of my order is fictitious as is his claim that I harbour anti-aviation sentiments.

Paul..

Last edited by PaulKerry; 16th Feb 2014 at 09:12.
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Old 15th Feb 2014, 17:11
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It's gone strangely quiet, suddenly.
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Old 15th Feb 2014, 17:21
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You just had to say it.........

I Googled: "It's quiet, too quiet"

"Someone has to break the silence, and only one line will do: "It's quiet...too quiet."

This trope describes any moment in a narrative where the action has hit a low point, when anyone who's paying attention would notice that a Random Encounter could, or should, appear at any instant. Fairly often something will happen within a minute, which will lead another character to say "You Just Had to Say It"."

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