Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Ok to talk but get the facts right-think a lot of people by now would be getting the idea that the facts are very 1 sided and if u want to have your view point well then you get told you are not allowed-maybe we need a list of do,s and dont,s.MMMM-Truth hurts sometimes but dont be put off-there is always a reward for the man who waits.
Remain calm,dont be intimidated and dont stoop to the level of the bullies that we have become accustomed to in the past few years.
Remain calm,dont be intimidated and dont stoop to the level of the bullies that we have become accustomed to in the past few years.
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Reading these posts shows one obvious fact. Where is the bargaining?
We are under an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement whereby each side it allowed to bargain.
Where do we stand when the Company says "We are not moving. Qantas has a 3% wages policy and that's it" Doesn't quite fit the bill of bargaining does it?
Record profit last year, possibly another record profit 2007/08. I don't hear a profit downgrade. The coffers are full. Senior management remunerated. Fuel hedged. Fuel prices won't stay high forever (GD quoted and has dropped twice in last two days).
Bargain we will. Snag it, change it, move it, fly it, wipe it, screw it, adjust it, fix it. But just don't hurry it.
Bump cap, Form 500, Care report, safety glasses, vest, torch, tools, DR&Rs, MPAR, Safe form, Hazard report, Form 2000, Laptop, Work card, ....how do I carry all this stuff.
I will find away
We are under an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement whereby each side it allowed to bargain.
Where do we stand when the Company says "We are not moving. Qantas has a 3% wages policy and that's it" Doesn't quite fit the bill of bargaining does it?
Record profit last year, possibly another record profit 2007/08. I don't hear a profit downgrade. The coffers are full. Senior management remunerated. Fuel hedged. Fuel prices won't stay high forever (GD quoted and has dropped twice in last two days).
Bargain we will. Snag it, change it, move it, fly it, wipe it, screw it, adjust it, fix it. But just don't hurry it.
Bump cap, Form 500, Care report, safety glasses, vest, torch, tools, DR&Rs, MPAR, Safe form, Hazard report, Form 2000, Laptop, Work card, ....how do I carry all this stuff.
I will find away
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Qantas: Dixon Denies Buy-out Rumors
NOVEMBER 27, 2006. In response to some press reports, the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas Airways Limited, Mr Geoff Dixon, has said that in line with protocols set up by the Qantas Board, he had had no discussions with any member of the consortium looking at taking equity in Qantas or his future role, remuneration or equity in any new company.
Lies Lies Lies..... How can any one take a liars word...... so who is telling the truth now.........I can't believe he survived that one....... but have a feeling he won't be around this time next year.
NOVEMBER 27, 2006. In response to some press reports, the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas Airways Limited, Mr Geoff Dixon, has said that in line with protocols set up by the Qantas Board, he had had no discussions with any member of the consortium looking at taking equity in Qantas or his future role, remuneration or equity in any new company.
Lies Lies Lies..... How can any one take a liars word...... so who is telling the truth now.........I can't believe he survived that one....... but have a feeling he won't be around this time next year.
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Shortly after speaking to The Australian, the engineer was phoned by management and warned off talking to the media, he said.
WHY?
Is it a breach of the policy manual? Then perhaps HR should sack GEOFF for breaching the policy manual.
If any jumped up HR twerpette or half-wit manager tells me to stop talking to the media I'll ram a discrimination case so far up his/her back passage they won't have a motion for a year!!!
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Form 500.....
A lot of form 500's were processed and some were very interesting to say the least,
Fax 'em to the association using a NON-Qantas fax machine, they will use them as necessary and also they will know the correct 'official' people to send them to.
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up2us said
mate, it actually left at 0954 Friday ( today) according to qantas.com
a mere 21 hours late.
Yeah Geoff, a small delay there..........
QF 11 to LAX etd 1320 left @ 2100 7 1/2 HOURS
a mere 21 hours late.
Yeah Geoff, a small delay there..........
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The qf11 (OEH) was late out of an A check. Funny part was that A check work package was basically stripped bare (incl boro's) so the rest could be completed in LAX by the 6 syd guys (3 mech & 3 avionics) that are trying to ramp up the A checks over there. I think its time the fed sec brought our LA guys back. What do you think fed sec.
Geoff. Its time to start looking after your staff. Respect alone can go a long way.
Geoff. Its time to start looking after your staff. Respect alone can go a long way.
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Hold items across the fleet now over double what they were 2 weeks ago and we are only 2 weeks in to the overtime ban.
6 weeks from now we'll have delays on all flights, due to skippers taking 40 minutes to read through and asesss what all the defects are in the front of the Techlog on every flight. We won't have to do a bl00dy thing.
Imagine 12 weeks from now,the situation is going to be laughable.
PPM OUR GREATEST WEAPON,THANKS GEOFFREY.
6 weeks from now we'll have delays on all flights, due to skippers taking 40 minutes to read through and asesss what all the defects are in the front of the Techlog on every flight. We won't have to do a bl00dy thing.
Imagine 12 weeks from now,the situation is going to be laughable.
PPM OUR GREATEST WEAPON,THANKS GEOFFREY.
Last edited by wanty; 30th May 2008 at 03:41.
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Just received this from a mate...
Just received the email below from a fellow LAME. Asked me to get it out there, so can anyone/everyone out there do some fact checking, amend where necessary, copy and paste this into an email and send it to everyone in their inbox?
Hi (names deleted to protect the innocent)
You may have heard the stoush in the media between Geoff Dixon and the union representing me, the ALAEA, and the ACTU.
I’d like to correct some of Geoff Dixon’s lies.
GD: "This morning in the four hours in Sydney we got just about every flight away with very slight delays,''
Fact: 56% on time. That’s down from 80 – 90%.
Tracked: 390
Departed: 380
Cancelled: 10
Delayed:
15-30 mins: 81
30-45 mins: 28
45+mins: 57
Source: http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=qf&airlineQueryDate=2008-05-29.
Since when is a 45+ minute delay “very slight?” If you were 45 minutes late for a meeting, would you say, “Sorry, I’m very slightly late”?
Actual examples of “45+ minute delays”:
QF43 to Auckland: departed 2hrs 10 min late.
QF11 to LA: departed 7hrs 40min late.
QF31 to Singapore: departed 3hrs 50min late.
QF1 to London: departed 4+ hours late.
GD: “Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon says most of the engineers earn $130,000 a year and are not the working poor.”
Fact: The most that many engineers can ever hope to earn is around $130,000, earned through up to 40 years service and/or extensive training. Only those engineers in the highest pay grade earn that much. Qantas has limited the number of engineers in that pay grade to only 5% of the total number, or 80 of a total 1600 engineers!
Fact: An engineer at Qantas starts on $53,000 p.a. base pay, with up to 44% in shift penalties and rostered overtime on top of that for the joy of working 12 hour days and nights in all weather, weekends and public holidays. That’s $76,000 p.a. total. By comparison, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, Qantas’ “low cost carrier” are paying their entry level engineers over $105,000 p.a.!
Fact: Based on information collated by the ALAEA (of which the vast majority of engineers are members), the average wage for a Qantas engineer is around $89,000, including shift penalties – still way behind the competition and far behind Mr Dixon’s claim of $130,000.
GD: “Since 2001 these engineers have had a 37 per cent pay increase overall”
Fact: Since 2001, we have had pay rises of 12%. In 2001 & 2002 we took an 18 month pay freeze. We have not had a pay-rise for two and a half years now. In 2003 – 2006 we received Geoff Dixon’s standard 3% pay rise. Four years X 3% = 12%. This is far behind both inflation, pay-rises received by comparative industries such as the utilities, transport and mining industries, and the broader community which has enjoyed unprecedented wage growth in the last decade.
GD: "If you take into account the offer that we made to them, the union accepted a deal with us in January, which was 3 per cent [pay rise] plus 1 per cent superannuation. They then decided not to put it to their membership and walked away from it."
Fact: The ALAEA spent over 15 months negotiating a deal which the union agreed to present to the members in the form of a summary, or “Heads of Agreement” (HOA). They presented the HOA to the members in a series of meetings around the country and recommended that we voted for it on the grounds that it was the best Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (of a total of eight) that had ever been negotiated. The members overwhelmingly rejected the HOA and raised serious concerns about it. I know, because I was at the meetings. Further, when the full text of the Agreement was presented to the union executive, the almost 100 page document differed in key areas to what had been negotiated, agreed and presented to the members in the HOA - a clear breach of trust. That’s when the ALAEA walked away from the offer.
Please do not believe this man. He has been very effectively crying wolf for years. He is a former journalist and knows his way around the media. He also wields a large advertising account which media corporations are afraid to lose if they do not give him positive coverage.
Please keep these Facts in mind whenever you see Geoff Dixon in the media.
Cheers
(Name deleted to protect the innocent)
Hi (names deleted to protect the innocent)
You may have heard the stoush in the media between Geoff Dixon and the union representing me, the ALAEA, and the ACTU.
I’d like to correct some of Geoff Dixon’s lies.
GD: "This morning in the four hours in Sydney we got just about every flight away with very slight delays,''
Fact: 56% on time. That’s down from 80 – 90%.
Tracked: 390
Departed: 380
Cancelled: 10
Delayed:
15-30 mins: 81
30-45 mins: 28
45+mins: 57
Source: http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=qf&airlineQueryDate=2008-05-29.
Since when is a 45+ minute delay “very slight?” If you were 45 minutes late for a meeting, would you say, “Sorry, I’m very slightly late”?
Actual examples of “45+ minute delays”:
QF43 to Auckland: departed 2hrs 10 min late.
QF11 to LA: departed 7hrs 40min late.
QF31 to Singapore: departed 3hrs 50min late.
QF1 to London: departed 4+ hours late.
GD: “Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon says most of the engineers earn $130,000 a year and are not the working poor.”
Fact: The most that many engineers can ever hope to earn is around $130,000, earned through up to 40 years service and/or extensive training. Only those engineers in the highest pay grade earn that much. Qantas has limited the number of engineers in that pay grade to only 5% of the total number, or 80 of a total 1600 engineers!
Fact: An engineer at Qantas starts on $53,000 p.a. base pay, with up to 44% in shift penalties and rostered overtime on top of that for the joy of working 12 hour days and nights in all weather, weekends and public holidays. That’s $76,000 p.a. total. By comparison, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, Qantas’ “low cost carrier” are paying their entry level engineers over $105,000 p.a.!
Fact: Based on information collated by the ALAEA (of which the vast majority of engineers are members), the average wage for a Qantas engineer is around $89,000, including shift penalties – still way behind the competition and far behind Mr Dixon’s claim of $130,000.
GD: “Since 2001 these engineers have had a 37 per cent pay increase overall”
Fact: Since 2001, we have had pay rises of 12%. In 2001 & 2002 we took an 18 month pay freeze. We have not had a pay-rise for two and a half years now. In 2003 – 2006 we received Geoff Dixon’s standard 3% pay rise. Four years X 3% = 12%. This is far behind both inflation, pay-rises received by comparative industries such as the utilities, transport and mining industries, and the broader community which has enjoyed unprecedented wage growth in the last decade.
GD: "If you take into account the offer that we made to them, the union accepted a deal with us in January, which was 3 per cent [pay rise] plus 1 per cent superannuation. They then decided not to put it to their membership and walked away from it."
Fact: The ALAEA spent over 15 months negotiating a deal which the union agreed to present to the members in the form of a summary, or “Heads of Agreement” (HOA). They presented the HOA to the members in a series of meetings around the country and recommended that we voted for it on the grounds that it was the best Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (of a total of eight) that had ever been negotiated. The members overwhelmingly rejected the HOA and raised serious concerns about it. I know, because I was at the meetings. Further, when the full text of the Agreement was presented to the union executive, the almost 100 page document differed in key areas to what had been negotiated, agreed and presented to the members in the HOA - a clear breach of trust. That’s when the ALAEA walked away from the offer.
Please do not believe this man. He has been very effectively crying wolf for years. He is a former journalist and knows his way around the media. He also wields a large advertising account which media corporations are afraid to lose if they do not give him positive coverage.
Please keep these Facts in mind whenever you see Geoff Dixon in the media.
Cheers
(Name deleted to protect the innocent)
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My spies tell me they are ramping up the increase in staff at all international line stations, so as to utilise the Aus. Lame's who are exempt from the bans,. This way they will be able to at least keep up with all the over due 'A' checks, they are actively looking for ame's /technicians to employ. They have to be able to hit the ground running at least 5 years experience, and up to 10 per line station.
Perhaps it is time to bring them home.
Perhaps it is time to bring them home.
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Shop floor strugglers/ highly trained senior managers
A copy to Ewan Hannan at "The Australian" might be in order, then he can get his facts straight.
Or maybe Uncle Geoff is handing out lollies for reporters to help him along.
Or maybe Uncle Geoff is handing out lollies for reporters to help him along.
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A Very proud LAME
Ok guys....it's my first post on pprune so be nice...
Just wanted to say how impressed I was yesterday with all (or should I say most) of my collegues. It wasn't just a stand for something just and deserved for all of us....a CPI adjustment to bring us back from a long way behind the 8-ball....but it was also a clear display to management, the media, pax, and whoever else cared to look or ask, that we are an intelligent, respectful and extremely professional lot.
I returned to my workplace at lunchtime to find a gaggle of security guards expecting a riot with the engineer/managers who stayed on the floor, but they were instead greeted by a bunch of professional engineers who took handovers without fuss and resumed normal duties under some pretty trying circumstances (and quite a few spot fires to extinguish left by the alternate workforce...but that's for a CROSS report and not this forum).
Well done everyone for both making a stand for what's right and for doing it in such a professional manner. Every pilot, cabin crew member, caterer, ramp worker and AME I spoke to yesterday was in 100% support of us and made me very proud.
If QF had a morale problem before...it's about to get a whole lot worse I feel.
Just wanted to say how impressed I was yesterday with all (or should I say most) of my collegues. It wasn't just a stand for something just and deserved for all of us....a CPI adjustment to bring us back from a long way behind the 8-ball....but it was also a clear display to management, the media, pax, and whoever else cared to look or ask, that we are an intelligent, respectful and extremely professional lot.
I returned to my workplace at lunchtime to find a gaggle of security guards expecting a riot with the engineer/managers who stayed on the floor, but they were instead greeted by a bunch of professional engineers who took handovers without fuss and resumed normal duties under some pretty trying circumstances (and quite a few spot fires to extinguish left by the alternate workforce...but that's for a CROSS report and not this forum).
Well done everyone for both making a stand for what's right and for doing it in such a professional manner. Every pilot, cabin crew member, caterer, ramp worker and AME I spoke to yesterday was in 100% support of us and made me very proud.
If QF had a morale problem before...it's about to get a whole lot worse I feel.
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Newgen
Great to hear about the professionalism of our LAMEs going back to our jobs
with due diligence after what was a stressful 4 hours meeting. (awaiting the lockout)
Just wonder if dixon had the guard dogs on standby, I would not put it past him.
Great to hear about the professionalism of our LAMEs going back to our jobs
with due diligence after what was a stressful 4 hours meeting. (awaiting the lockout)
Just wonder if dixon had the guard dogs on standby, I would not put it past him.
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Is there some one familiar with the operation and agreement between ALAEA and Qantas that excludes the inclusion of Line station engineers?
Why are they exempt?
Is it no mans land?
Taboo?
Not to be spoken about?
If I wanted to shut down the international operation I would bring them home, Then if the company had enough manager/scabs to base around the world there would be fewer to certify back here in Aus.
Two fold result and few engineers affected, best possible result and those coming back would not be without pay they can resume their normal duties back here in Aus.
Please enlighten us why this is not being done?
Why are they exempt?
Is it no mans land?
Taboo?
Not to be spoken about?
If I wanted to shut down the international operation I would bring them home, Then if the company had enough manager/scabs to base around the world there would be fewer to certify back here in Aus.
Two fold result and few engineers affected, best possible result and those coming back would not be without pay they can resume their normal duties back here in Aus.
Please enlighten us why this is not being done?
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Vortsa, you are completely correct, why don't we have these guys come home from Line Stations. Why do Line Stations have exemptions?
Look at the workload that is being ramped up to line stations. Not just ramped up from what i hear, but a very steep ramp at that.
Can we have the Fed Sec explain to us why this exemption is in place? Just to clear up the point. I hope its not 'taboo', or 'not to be spoken about'.
Look at the workload that is being ramped up to line stations. Not just ramped up from what i hear, but a very steep ramp at that.
Can we have the Fed Sec explain to us why this exemption is in place? Just to clear up the point. I hope its not 'taboo', or 'not to be spoken about'.
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Just wanted to add my thanks to the guys and girls in Syd, Bne and Mel who left work yesterday and today at the appointed times.
I know the fear factor would have been with each one of you as you made those steps out the gate as you tried not to think "what happens if this all goes to s..."?
So thank you for taking those steps and for conducting yourselves in such a professional manner when in front of the media and on your return to
the workplace. You have certainly made this QF non-Syd-Bne-Mel Lame very proud!
I know the fear factor would have been with each one of you as you made those steps out the gate as you tried not to think "what happens if this all goes to s..."?
So thank you for taking those steps and for conducting yourselves in such a professional manner when in front of the media and on your return to
the workplace. You have certainly made this QF non-Syd-Bne-Mel Lame very proud!
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The LAME's have put out another & final olive branch to save Geoff
the embarrassment of all out war of his making, (and his pending ultimate defeat).
I suggest you grab it with both hands and come to the bargaining table
and leave the lies in the board room.
We want to resolve this and ramp up the company, not pull it down GROUNDING aircraft as you would do.
As employees & shareholders, we want to build on what we have created over 80 years of blood, sweat & tears.
OUR company.
We may not own large lumps of the shares,
but we own 100% its success.
the embarrassment of all out war of his making, (and his pending ultimate defeat).
I suggest you grab it with both hands and come to the bargaining table
and leave the lies in the board room.
We want to resolve this and ramp up the company, not pull it down GROUNDING aircraft as you would do.
As employees & shareholders, we want to build on what we have created over 80 years of blood, sweat & tears.
OUR company.
We may not own large lumps of the shares,
but we own 100% its success.
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As a long time pprune watcher, first time poster and ex HM redundant LAME, I wish each and every one of you the best of luck with your PIA. I too was approached in December to take up a position that, in the end, was to sc@b against you. I declined without hesitation.
It is fantastic to see some action, finally, from the LAME’s and support from the ALAEA and ACTU (with some Tech & Cabin Crew as well) for something that should have been done at least a decade ago.
The more I read up on the past of this CEO the more infuriating it becomes seeing how his lies are just water off a duck’s back.
This just might be the scotchbrite that removes his Teflon coating and let some sh*t start to stick to this B* for all and sundry to see. Surely the shareholders can see this by now with the very little improvement in shares since his arrival. Only getting a reasonable gain with a setup that would have lined HIS pockets so well and, by the looks of things, destroy a once fantastic, World-Class Company.
Stick to the PPM and OT bans…..simple, legal and effective (but include the regular feedback meetings).
The Engineers I knew all had loyalty, pride and were totally professional. You still have that but not the morale. Keep the esprit de corps to each other and you will win through.
Good Luck!
It is fantastic to see some action, finally, from the LAME’s and support from the ALAEA and ACTU (with some Tech & Cabin Crew as well) for something that should have been done at least a decade ago.
The more I read up on the past of this CEO the more infuriating it becomes seeing how his lies are just water off a duck’s back.
This just might be the scotchbrite that removes his Teflon coating and let some sh*t start to stick to this B* for all and sundry to see. Surely the shareholders can see this by now with the very little improvement in shares since his arrival. Only getting a reasonable gain with a setup that would have lined HIS pockets so well and, by the looks of things, destroy a once fantastic, World-Class Company.
Stick to the PPM and OT bans…..simple, legal and effective (but include the regular feedback meetings).
The Engineers I knew all had loyalty, pride and were totally professional. You still have that but not the morale. Keep the esprit de corps to each other and you will win through.
Good Luck!