Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the 26 out of 29 Mechanical LAMEs sick today in Mel Heavy.
Quote "To the 26 out of 29 Mechanical LAME sick today in Mel Heavy."
As an interested spectator to this PIA I have been regularly perusing the pertinent threads.
For the most part I think ‘Pass A Frozo’ has achieved his aims of stirring the pot extremely well without adding much at all to the debate. However, his recent posts regarding the 26 LAME from 29 who were all ill on the same day actually have some merit.
If there is one aspect or factor which must be maintained by the LAME in this action, it is the moral high ground.
Once you lose the moral high ground then you run the risk of being crucified in the media by bolstering the ammunition which can be truthfully used to against you.
Just because you feel the union has been bullied, it does not make it right or moral to devalue yourselves to the same level.
If the union directive is to 'Work to Rule' then that is what you must do. Do not work above the rule, do not work below the rule, work to the rule - exactly.
Seek and hold the high ground. Genghis Khan did it, so should you!
PS. When you make your posts, the least you can do is write in complete sentences and run a spelling check before you press submit. Journalists read these boards and will make a subjective judgment about you and your cause based on your prose.
As an interested spectator to this PIA I have been regularly perusing the pertinent threads.
For the most part I think ‘Pass A Frozo’ has achieved his aims of stirring the pot extremely well without adding much at all to the debate. However, his recent posts regarding the 26 LAME from 29 who were all ill on the same day actually have some merit.
If there is one aspect or factor which must be maintained by the LAME in this action, it is the moral high ground.
Once you lose the moral high ground then you run the risk of being crucified in the media by bolstering the ammunition which can be truthfully used to against you.
Just because you feel the union has been bullied, it does not make it right or moral to devalue yourselves to the same level.
If the union directive is to 'Work to Rule' then that is what you must do. Do not work above the rule, do not work below the rule, work to the rule - exactly.
Seek and hold the high ground. Genghis Khan did it, so should you!
PS. When you make your posts, the least you can do is write in complete sentences and run a spelling check before you press submit. Journalists read these boards and will make a subjective judgment about you and your cause based on your prose.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: aus
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
spelling police and paf!!!!
Paf your silence would be appreciated. Spelling police let me outline something to you.... You must understand that every one of those 26 LAME's have been under a lot of stress lately due to the company's inapt measure's to save a meer $3.5m... Along with all working twice as hard the big Q have also cancelled any leave. Give the guys a break. You both claim to be outside this dispute so both could not possibly understand what QF Lame's are going through... And before you say anything PAF ... This is NOT self inflicted....
P.S Sorry for any spelling mistakes i might have made here Spelling Police....
P.S Sorry for any spelling mistakes i might have made here Spelling Police....
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: sydney
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm quite happy to debate the logic of your position. Apparently you aren't - simply resorting to calling people cowards if they don't wish to join industrial action that is damaging to our nation.
Being personally attacked by a socialist for taking a position contrary to a "union" line is a bit like being hit with a wet lettuce. But then again, that's how union's operate isn't it - bully individual's into joining, "No ticket, no start" and calling people cowards or of low intellect if they don't toe the union line.
Being personally attacked by a socialist for taking a position contrary to a "union" line is a bit like being hit with a wet lettuce. But then again, that's how union's operate isn't it - bully individual's into joining, "No ticket, no start" and calling people cowards or of low intellect if they don't toe the union line.
Really what is the difference between a collective of management people and a collective of union people? Management tries to suggest they are the only ones allowed to act as a collective? Well boo hoo, management are no more than employees of QANTAS as well. Yet for some reason they are above the "needed constraints" for the company to survive and are allowed to gouge the fatted pig for themselves.
Does a manager not perform until his bonus kicks in, does he not get paid to do his job, why do they then also need consultants to do their job!
Management in QF is a FARCE.
At $6.7 mil excluding bonus Geoff cost more than 67 LAME's. Is he worth that? LAME's have done nothing apart from pull overtime, his poor management is now exposed for all it has not done, is he still worth that?
LAME's are no longer covering up the mess PAF and AMOS's mates (GD an Co) created yet they are two of a number that just fail accept reality.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PaF
Firstly, no one wants to go down the path of PIA, however negotiating
is not working. Its 3% and the company wants trade offs.
So in effect we are going backwards and giving away conditions to boot.
We have sat here and listened to GD rattle off every excuse for
keeping staff wages at 3%, we have had 9/11 , SARS ,bird flu, exchange rate and now oil prices.
We have done our bit, we have had wage freezes, shown wage restraint by
not pushing for a higher pay rise than the 3% offered, and done every
dumb ass thing we have been asked to do to " save money"
The problem is that while all this was going on instead of leading by example our executives have been giving themselves massive pay rises and bonuses .
Our CEO very nearly put 60M in his pocket as a " finders fee" for the sale of QANTAS. (I am still amazed that was legal!!!!)
In effect what has been happening is that QF management have set up
quite a tidy little earner for themselves here.
All you need to do is not spend any money and a percentage of what
you dont spend will end up in your pocket.
Don't fix anything, put off any purchases , don't train people , don't
buy any equipment , its easy really!
So all these greedy little lacky's have cut thru the fat into the bone and things are starting to fall apart but they can't say that can they or there will no bonus this year.
So what do they do? they say that all is well and they all get a nice fat pay check and it really doesn't matter if things arn't because soon they will move on and it will be someone elses problem.
Well the staff have had enough
Its not just the LAME's jacking up here , its all staff.
The check in staff are getting hammered, the rampies are doing it pretty
tough, catering are constantly under threat of being sold off. We are short
of pilots and the cabin crew are getting smashed and all engineering ever gets told is that we will get outsoursed.
Every dept has its own issues. But they all have one thing in common
and that is that they have had a gutfull and it is starting to effect the
operation .
If for one minute our execs had practiced what they preached and shown
some form of restraint we may not be in the situation we are now, however
having management cry poor while giving themselves huge pay increases has worn real thin and the staff are not going to put up with it any more.
So I ask you Paf,
What do we do because I am all ears?
Firstly, no one wants to go down the path of PIA, however negotiating
is not working. Its 3% and the company wants trade offs.
So in effect we are going backwards and giving away conditions to boot.
We have sat here and listened to GD rattle off every excuse for
keeping staff wages at 3%, we have had 9/11 , SARS ,bird flu, exchange rate and now oil prices.
We have done our bit, we have had wage freezes, shown wage restraint by
not pushing for a higher pay rise than the 3% offered, and done every
dumb ass thing we have been asked to do to " save money"
The problem is that while all this was going on instead of leading by example our executives have been giving themselves massive pay rises and bonuses .
Our CEO very nearly put 60M in his pocket as a " finders fee" for the sale of QANTAS. (I am still amazed that was legal!!!!)
In effect what has been happening is that QF management have set up
quite a tidy little earner for themselves here.
All you need to do is not spend any money and a percentage of what
you dont spend will end up in your pocket.
Don't fix anything, put off any purchases , don't train people , don't
buy any equipment , its easy really!
So all these greedy little lacky's have cut thru the fat into the bone and things are starting to fall apart but they can't say that can they or there will no bonus this year.
So what do they do? they say that all is well and they all get a nice fat pay check and it really doesn't matter if things arn't because soon they will move on and it will be someone elses problem.
Well the staff have had enough
Its not just the LAME's jacking up here , its all staff.
The check in staff are getting hammered, the rampies are doing it pretty
tough, catering are constantly under threat of being sold off. We are short
of pilots and the cabin crew are getting smashed and all engineering ever gets told is that we will get outsoursed.
Every dept has its own issues. But they all have one thing in common
and that is that they have had a gutfull and it is starting to effect the
operation .
If for one minute our execs had practiced what they preached and shown
some form of restraint we may not be in the situation we are now, however
having management cry poor while giving themselves huge pay increases has worn real thin and the staff are not going to put up with it any more.
So I ask you Paf,
What do we do because I am all ears?
Last edited by acslame; 24th May 2008 at 04:08.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: australia
Age: 59
Posts: 425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
qf have had too few guys working, as a result bucket loads of over time. this is good for the pay, bad for the health as it eventually catches up with you. as a consequence sick leave goes up and someone else has to do overtime to catch up the hours missed. but now nobody is working overtime so a backlog begins and as cabin crew we are seeing the consequences. good luck to you all.
why anyone would have a 1 hour stopwork when legislation demands that you are docked 4 hours... why work 3 hours for free?
question, if you go sick on a day that has a 4 hour stop work are you paid for a full day if you go sick before the stop work period?
why anyone would have a 1 hour stopwork when legislation demands that you are docked 4 hours... why work 3 hours for free?
question, if you go sick on a day that has a 4 hour stop work are you paid for a full day if you go sick before the stop work period?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: real world
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Paf just ask those poor sods who were retrenched in the the early 90's for not being in a union the real value of union membership. If we had no unions your beloved company wouldn't even bother with pay rises. Put your wifes knickers back in her draw where they belong and wear some man pants.
It bewilders me after 18 months that Mr 'Dick'son now claims oil at $130 a barrel is the reason we must live below inflation.All QF unions and the ACTU can see thru your lies.Whats next Dicko the Burmese cyclones or the earthquakes in China.
Hail the ALAEA flying the fair go flag for 36,000 employees. Shame on you Dicko for
ing up our company.
My dads friend went to book a ticket on QF the other day. On hearing the recorded msg,"there might be flight delays due to industrial action" he bought a ticket on virgin instead. Now thats good for business Mr 'Dick'son.
are there any shareholders watching.
It bewilders me after 18 months that Mr 'Dick'son now claims oil at $130 a barrel is the reason we must live below inflation.All QF unions and the ACTU can see thru your lies.Whats next Dicko the Burmese cyclones or the earthquakes in China.
Hail the ALAEA flying the fair go flag for 36,000 employees. Shame on you Dicko for
ing up our company.My dads friend went to book a ticket on QF the other day. On hearing the recorded msg,"there might be flight delays due to industrial action" he bought a ticket on virgin instead. Now thats good for business Mr 'Dick'son.
are there any shareholders watching.
Last edited by dr skydrol; 1st Jun 2008 at 10:22.
Thread Drift
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
26 of 29
QantasStrike,
Granted, I am not a Qantas LAME, neither am I in the employ of Qantas in any capacity. However, if you honestly believe your workforce is the only group to ever feel aggrieved towards their employer then you are quite waylaid. I have been in exactly the same position as yourselves; unappreciated, underpaid, overworked, stressed, ignored etc.
I was merely pointing out that once you lose the moral high ground, it is impossible to regain it. The moral high ground is your groups most important asset in the media battle ground. Even if 26 of the 29 LAME were actually ill on the same day, the possible public perception of this will portray your group in a very poor light.
Regards
SP.
Granted, I am not a Qantas LAME, neither am I in the employ of Qantas in any capacity. However, if you honestly believe your workforce is the only group to ever feel aggrieved towards their employer then you are quite waylaid. I have been in exactly the same position as yourselves; unappreciated, underpaid, overworked, stressed, ignored etc.
I was merely pointing out that once you lose the moral high ground, it is impossible to regain it. The moral high ground is your groups most important asset in the media battle ground. Even if 26 of the 29 LAME were actually ill on the same day, the possible public perception of this will portray your group in a very poor light.
Regards
SP.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lamea380
You just can't help yourself. Moderator attention earnt through you last affiliated act of stupidity hasn't toned you down. Word has it that's strike one for you. Could this be strike two! You must be more constructive. Dig deep and prove you have a point of view and deliver it. Pack away the petrol and state your position or at least debate somebody elses. Go as hard as you like. But you must move forward. To stand still, and light fires like an arsonist, makes you an easy target. For elimination from PPRuNe.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Wild West
Age: 55
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The situation was............
Every time an aircraft went U/S Engineers from around Aus would flock to it JUST TO GET IT FIXED be it on normal time or overtime we can't help ourselves we love fixing things but..........
When you give us no respect, no future and no recognition we don't like it, it takes a while to sink in, we still love fixing aircraft but we get more and more unhappy finally............
When you get to a stage where even engineers are disenchanted enough you know the place is falling down around your ears we are at that stage........
I don't know all the answers but a change of management would go a long to solving this disharmony and unfortunately the fish always stinks from the head............
On average an engineer will stay 34 years with Qantas, managers barely last 10, the scars of this latest dispute will be borne by all for many years to come.............
And we will not forget
Every time an aircraft went U/S Engineers from around Aus would flock to it JUST TO GET IT FIXED be it on normal time or overtime we can't help ourselves we love fixing things but..........
When you give us no respect, no future and no recognition we don't like it, it takes a while to sink in, we still love fixing aircraft but we get more and more unhappy finally............
When you get to a stage where even engineers are disenchanted enough you know the place is falling down around your ears we are at that stage........
I don't know all the answers but a change of management would go a long to solving this disharmony and unfortunately the fish always stinks from the head............
On average an engineer will stay 34 years with Qantas, managers barely last 10, the scars of this latest dispute will be borne by all for many years to come.............
And we will not forget
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I Repeat!
Lamea380
You just can't help yourself. Moderator attention earnt through you last affiliated act of stupidity hasn't toned you down. Word has it that's strike one for you. Could this be strike two! You must be more constructive. Dig deep and prove you have a point of view and deliver it. Pack away the petrol and state your position or at least debate somebody elses. Go as hard as you like. But you must move forward. To stand still, and light fires like an arsonist, makes you an easy target. For elimination from PPRuNe.
P.S. Again, I warn you, be constructive or risk being dismissed.
You just can't help yourself. Moderator attention earnt through you last affiliated act of stupidity hasn't toned you down. Word has it that's strike one for you. Could this be strike two! You must be more constructive. Dig deep and prove you have a point of view and deliver it. Pack away the petrol and state your position or at least debate somebody elses. Go as hard as you like. But you must move forward. To stand still, and light fires like an arsonist, makes you an easy target. For elimination from PPRuNe.
P.S. Again, I warn you, be constructive or risk being dismissed.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Acute Insect
I have taken notice of your warning and will try to be more constructive.
How about this *************** is that constructive enough
Opps soory i might get banned
TID Edit: Correct statement!
I have taken notice of your warning and will try to be more constructive.
How about this *************** is that constructive enough
Opps soory i might get banned
TID Edit: Correct statement!
Last edited by Tidbinbilla; 25th May 2008 at 04:35. Reason: Insulting and inflammatory
Join Date: May 2008
Location: aus
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lamea380
could someone from the site please put lamea380 out of his missery and dismiss the fool. He has nothing to discuss only rant due to his side being on the back foot for a change. 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: melbourne
Posts: 256
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LAMEA380, the first sign of LOOSING an argument is reverting to personal insults...........
DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY AND YOU GUESSED IT,ANOTHER DELAY