Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[The Black Panther]

Don't mind digging in. My trench is dug already.

One question for Fed Sec.
How long can QF suspend leave before it becomes a test of civil rights, if for example a Lame hasn't had leave for >6 months or he has extensive leave accrued?

[Socket]

I find it really interesting that throughout this entire dispute, even after it has been raised as a topic of interest, the press has not been interested in comparing the obscene largess dixon and co have recieved with the miniscule amounts sought by the employees that drive their success. Even worse I believe is the fact that our new government hasn't intervened and made at least a statement of support .

[600ft-lb]

It will be interesting to see the results of the next bit of ALAEA actions, ratcheting up the 4 hour stop work meetings to be 4 hours nationwide simultaneously.. or even perhaps local time at each port for greater effectiveness.

As for the lean sigma 'manager', he was not respected when he was 'on the tools', he fumbles over his words trying to present a lean sigma white belt presentation (trust me i had to endure 2 days of his trying to explain what lean sigma was all about, it was cringeworthy), now he's pushing aircraft back over chocks and doing dodgy signoffs...

It is quite apparent that all of the people selected for lean sigma 'executive' level jobs, given black belt training, given $130k+ remuneration packages to sit up in an office and circle jerk about moving workshops to bankstown, then back to mascot, to strategically implement ready issues where they once were 30 years ago, but then removed so they could be put back again as just a few examples is a joke. Hopefully qantas looks after you boys! No one else will think anymore of you then the the little suprise the neighbours dog left on your yard.

[wanty]

Originally Posted by Turbo 5B

Are RTS allowed to be signed with defects unsigned?
Are defects allowed to be written off with out maintenance manual references?
I beleive a 767 arrived in Melbourne from Sydney with this scenario.
The "LAME"that signed apparently was a Lean Smegma manager, and the paperwork copy is on its way to CASA, so I hear.

LOL, heard a similar rumour today. Apparently it couldn't be faxed at Q today due to a Q bar of certain Fax/phone numbers. I't's all good,as long as it got faxed from a private fax machine,all is good. Not so good for the scab manager who will probably come close to loosing his licence. Gee,wonder what might happen to Q for allowing this to happen.


Don't forget (Tony La...r),it's channel 4 to contact the engineers from domestic and channel 5 for the international engineers.

But most of all Tony,don't forget to "PUT IN 110%" your next course could be riding on it.

Wonder what would happen if certain people used thier own home phones to tie up the board runners phone all day ???

Could be pandemonium.

[Socket]

Another point of interest, GD has made a lot of statements that are obvious lies. Why has he not been sued. Any statement that harms the LAME lawful action should be by law a breach of law. People are sued for less every day. Sue the jerk for defamation or anything. Drag the ass into court, get him under oath, THEN ask the serious questions with all to watch.

[sickofqf]

Are RTS allowed to be signed with defects unsigned?
Are defects allowed to be written off with out maintenance manual references?
I beleive a 767 arrived in Melbourne from Sydney with this scenario.
The "LAME"that signed apparently was a Lean Smegma manager, and the paperwork copy is on its way to CASA, so I hear.

Well, that would be HARDs luck if CASA investigated him AGAIN.

But then he has a history with CASA of dodgy paperwork doesn't he? SOE last time I believe!!!

Ooops, one down...........wait 'till Today Tonight get that one!!!

[NAS1801]

Watching Lateline business now.... Dixon on there.... lies lies lies. The only Lie this scumbag doesn't make, is the straight one in bed at night.

[psychogyro]

Watching Lateline business now.... Dixon on there.... lies lies lies. The only Lie this scumbag doesn't make, is the straight one in bed at night......

in response to this comment:- ive found a good method to figure out if GD, MH or DC are lying....watch and see if their lips move. 100% foolproof!

[psychogyro]

well acars747.....thank you for strengthening our resolve....the more people like you bleet like stuck pigs the stronger our resolve. keep it up and wipe the nutella off your lips idi0t!

[Anulus Filler]

Geoff Dixon told 'The Australian' today....

"They have every right to strike and I respect that," Mr Dixon told The Australian.

"But we have every right to try and protect our customer base and the profitability of the company and they should respect that."

"So I say, `Yeah, you can strike. That's your business.' Do they think we will just sit there and let them do this to our company?"

We will see what the shareholders think in a few months time

[Toolpants]

So he’s not going to let “THEM”. When he says “THEM” I guess he means "the staff."
When he says “Our Company” I guess "OUR" means Margaret and himself.

[Sunfish]

Anulus Filler, the shareholders won't feel any pain, nor will there be any profit downgrades until 2008/2009. The 2008 profit is locked in and there may be enough hollow logs full of cash (in an accounting sense) left around to produce a decent result in 2008/2009 financial year.

...So don't expect a procession of shareholders carrying flaming torches to storm QF management offices and drive a stake through Dixon's heart. The vampires will remain at the controls until you produce the silver bullet...which is a measurable downward change in QF's market share.

To put it another way, you need to get to a situation where the general public (and the flying public service) collectively say "Book me on anything except Qantas"

I've also been ruminating on why QF's Board and Management allowed this whole situation to develop over the last four or five years. Partly it's due to Board and Management narcissism - they have a natural proclivity to screw with people for the fun of it - hence Dixon's letter to Hamilton Island Residents, bottlers of Grange for Managers Christmas presents while not even sending you a post card and suchlike.

However they are intelligent people and I think that, not ever having worked in the bowels of an airline, or being "airline savvy" (example= not specifying the right floor for various airbuses, etc.) they made a number of classic mistakes.

First of all, they believed the Boeing and Airbus sales pitch about the Dreamliner and the A380, firstly about delivery dates, but the big one is about maintenance manhours per block hour, Airbus and Boeing will have sold them a big story about reduced maintenance costs.

Now of course that will be backed up by penalty payments, guarantees, etc. But these only go so far when your dispatch reliability goes tits up and buggers your reputation.

So anyway, four or five years ago, QF will have commissioned, if Boeing and Airbus hadn't done it for them, some very fancy computer modelling of their network, schedules and engineering workforce requirements for the next Ten years or so....and came to the conclusion that when these new birds arrived, a lot of LAME's were going to be surplus to requirements, even without factoring in a lot of outsourcing - which will have been under discussion for the past five years and was always going to happen, no matter what they have said in public.

So having reached the conclusion five years ago that they didn't need many of you going forward, their narcissistic side was let loose to deliberately try and make life so uncomfortable that as many as possible of you would leave voluntarily without costing QF much in redundancy payments. The rest of you would be squeezed, abused, bullied and cowed into submission so as to be willing to accept whatever new working arrangements were going to be put in place for the A380 and Dreamliner.

That's why QF's Board and Management labelled QF as a "Legacy Airline" - they were deliberately telling you you had no future and no skills worth anything to them.

That's why they publicly toyed with the Tullamarine overhaul staff, maybe outsourcing their jobs to China, maybe not depending on cost cutting - or not.....and then telling them that they could keep the work...for twelve months when they would look again at outsourcing...or not.

That's why they have f****ed you around for Eighteen months over your EBA, and they would do it for another Eighteen months if they could.

Have any of you ever seen a Board and Management more deliberately, coldly and ruthlessly contemptuous of it's staff? I haven't.

So what's happened to their cunning plan? A380 and Dreamliner are late, always was going to happen, so you are stuck running older aircraft which increased maintenance workload more than planned - that's why you are all on overtime all the time.

Then the APA bid didn't get up, so he can't f**k you all in private like he planned.

Johnny Howard didn't get re-elected, so they can't stamp you into whatever mould they want under AWA's for the A380 and Dreamliner.

When these new aircraft do arrive, mark my words, they will have a few "teething problems", which will be minor if they are lucky, but that will require an inordinate amount of engineering head scratching and labor to deal with.

If you want to know what happens when a bunch of narcissists plans an entry-into -service of new equipment, read about the BA LHR T5 fiasco elsewhere on PPrune.

Then there are rising fuel prices, that make sending an aircraft to China for maintenance and repair just that little bit more expensive.

Then there is the possibility of a Global recession and financial turmoil that might see the Aussie dollar vs. Yuan exchange rates go the wrong way from QF's perspective.

Then there is the possibility of war in the Middle East, which might also make outsourcing to China problematic.

All of these increase the business risk for QF.......but Mr. Dixon will have taken his bonuses and be long gone by the time these chickens come home to roost.

So much for the Board and Management looking after the Long Term value of the business.

P.S. It's a bit rich for Mr. Dixon to use the word "Respect" in any context at all.

[sickofqf]

Sunfish,

Great post. Spot on. Dixon and his board of 'industrial psychopaths' are only interested in themselves and will get to where they want by any means necessary.

Sad really isn't it that the share price has gone nowhere in the 8 years they've been screwing the rat. What a sensational job they have done in looking after the shareholders he likes to spew on about.

[Ngineer]

"This is as much a media war as an industrial war, and I’m afraid that today, di*ckson has won the battle. " Kotoyebe.

The more Dixon talks, the better for us. Remember he is a classic Union basher, and look what this did for the Howard gov. Every one who has spoken to me, asking what's going on, have'nt spoken very highly of what they have seen of him the last 24 hours. Remember also that there are 30000 odd employees of this company. They all have family and friends, so word of mouth travels pretty quick.

I think that Qantas fail to understand the EBA process. Mr Dixon has personally stated that a 3% wage policy for all employees has already been signed off by the board. I'm sorry but this is how exec remuneration is determined, not ours. We use an EBA process. Management seem to think this bargaining process is used to deliver a package that we must accept.

This now seems to be a personal, or emotive issue for Geoff for whatever reason. Of course he has a duty of care to the financial well being of Qantas, but it now seems that his issue will get in the way of this.

At the end of the day time is on the side of the LAME, as the longer this drags out, the more these issues will come to light. Any damage to the financial security of Qantas will be at the responsibility and peril of management who refuse to take part in the legal bargaining process of this country.

As for "management contributing more to this company than any bl@#dy (sic) union", he would'nt be saying that if the shareholders, who know alot better, accepted the APA bid. Or then again, maybe he would.

[Collando]

Their claim is out of order and we're not going to entertain it," he said. "We're prepared to wait this one out. We are not going to change our view on this. We've got the long-term future of the company in mind more than anything else and if it means that some of our passengers have some discomfort for a while, that will be the case. These people must know that whatever they do won't be enough for us to change our minds

."
So another indication of how far he is prepared to go to paint us as the bad guys. He dosnt mind if the customers have to suffer for his egomaniac behavior as long as he wins his holy cause.

One engineer who spoke to The Australian said his base salary of $63,000 made bringing up his children and paying a mortgage in Sydney almost impossible. It was difficult for his wife to get a job because of the "extreme" shift work he was asked to do. "At any moment there are 5000 people cruising at high altitude and their lives depend on my work," he said.
His job had once been considered a highly skilled occupation deserving of a healthy salary, but he was now paid little more than the average wage.
Shortly after speaking to The Australian, the engineer was phoned by management and warned off talking to the media, he said.

So now we are not entitled to freedom of speech?

I encourage you all, call talkback radio,sms talkback radio,write a letter to the editor. The more we expose Dixons mistruths, the more of the whole story that gets out there,the better. This battle has to be won in the media.

[up2us]

yesterdays wash up,

Sure some international flights were not too delayed, however that doesn't mean all went well. A lot of form 500's were processed and some were very interesting to say the least, wether or not they see the light of day will remain to be seen, although I believe hard copy's were also raised just in case they got lost , or the computers crash ... or oil price goes higher o'night..... or..
As was mentioned some A/C got away without big delays, what about the others ? Well......


QF 63 to JNB etd 1000 left @ 1933 . 9 1/2 HOURS.

QF 31 to SIN/LHR etd 1655 left @ 2045. nearly 4 HOURS.

QF 1 to BKK/LHR etd 1700 left @ 2115 over 4 HOURS.

QF 11 to LAX etd 1320 left @ 2100 7 1/2 HOURS

I think the qf107 left about 5 hours late as well, with the hold items doubling in 2 weeks just because of o/t bans soon these sort of delays will be the norm without stopwork feedbacks.

I hope the senior managers and the board are pleased with their efforts cause I am extremely pleased with ours under these difficult conditions.

[Pegasus747]

Dont take any of this personally boys

Dixon never met a man he didnt want to bash!

[thosecotos]

To put it another way, you need to get to a situation where the general public (and the flying public service) collectively say "Book me on anything except Qantas"

Unfortunately, domestically at least, there isn't the capacity to offer a genuine alternative....QF still enjoy a relative monoply in Oz. VB flights already always mostly full (and we're apparently losing money(?)), so who else is there?

You guys are brave, hopefully some of VT will be as strong with negotiations approaching. Good luck!

[Short_Circuit]

Looks very much like little Dicko was bullied
at school every day and has grown up bitter
and twisted.
He has bought a gun and is going to get even
with everyone regardless of the cost.
We all know how it will end.

[Collando]

Would someone in the media ask Geoff Dixon how much an engineers pay would be, relative to what it was 2001 if he started tomorrow.

Answer
Our pay has increased 17% 1.7% a year
20% if we accepted 3%

How much was inflation over that period? 22%

If anyone in the media is reading this, please check this out.
This is why we are making a stand. He is manipulating the figures to his advantage of course. (37%)But the truth is out there. It is our base rate is what we are fighting for that has been eroded over the last ten years.
It may be correct that if you have worked for QANTAS for the last ten years the total package you have gone up is 37% if bonuses and grade increases are included but in real terms the base rate has only gone up 17%