Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
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keg
Just read this snippet as part of the article "qantas to axe 1500 jobs" on ninemsn. I think you'll find that they sourced it from aap. So as reliable media outlets go they are probably the top. Bring on monday...... One msg for o/t already and counting......DIRKA.
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Originally Posted by redhawk37
its really great to see its finally over but lets wait n see if its been worth it, and I dont mean Monday!
Did the fat lady sing ?
It's not over until it's over .............
While I know the ALAEA executive have been working their rings off over this, and I also believe the executive know what we want, and I seriously doubt that they would make the mistake again of indicating to the company that we would accept a "less then 5% offer", the facts remain that we, the members, have yet to see THE PROPOSAL in writing.
Does anyone here believe that the company has not in the past engaged in "stalling" tactics, that they have not changed the document between "agreement" and "presentation", does anyone here fully trust all of the management ?
By Monday evening when we have all seen the proposal, then, and only then, can one even begin to say "it's over".
But this is my personal opinion........If it gives the Kones something without the same for the Blackhanders, if it gives the Line guys something without the same for the Dockies, if it gives the grades 9 - 13 something without giving the 3 - 8's the same thing, if it gives the domestic Brothers something without giving the international Brothers the same........Well as they say, "It's gonna crash and burn".
As I've said before, to their great chagrin, they've managed to unite us like never before.......
Viva la Engineers !!!
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SYDNEY, July 18 (Reuters) - Australia's biggest airline, Qantas Airways Ltd (QAN.AX: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) has reached an in-principle agreement with striking engineers, Qantas said in a statement on Friday. The terms of the agreement would remain confidential until next week but were within the framework of Qantas' wages policy, the statement said.
"...but were within the framework of Qantas' wages policy..."
smells of 3%
"...but were within the framework of Qantas' wages policy..."
smells of 3%
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Breaking news...
Bloomberg reports....
Engineer Agreement
Earlier, Qantas said it had reached a new four-year labor agreement with its engineers, ending a long-running dispute that had forced the airline to cancel some flights and delay others.
News.com.au reports....
THE 1500 jobs to be cut by Qantas will occur in Australia and abroad.
Arizona and London
Call centres will be shut with the loss of 99 jobs. Call centre activity to be concentrated in Australia and New Zealand.
Jetstar
A Jetstar cabin crew base in Adelaide will be shut down in August and the Jetstar recruitment program will also be suspended until the end of the year.
Plane fleet
The carrier plans to retire up to 10 per cent of its fleet of 228-planes.
Management
More than 20 per cent of Qantas management and head office support jobs will be slashed.
SpannerTwister
Engineer Agreement
Earlier, Qantas said it had reached a new four-year labor agreement with its engineers, ending a long-running dispute that had forced the airline to cancel some flights and delay others.
News.com.au reports....
THE 1500 jobs to be cut by Qantas will occur in Australia and abroad.
Arizona and London
Call centres will be shut with the loss of 99 jobs. Call centre activity to be concentrated in Australia and New Zealand.
Jetstar
A Jetstar cabin crew base in Adelaide will be shut down in August and the Jetstar recruitment program will also be suspended until the end of the year.
Plane fleet
The carrier plans to retire up to 10 per cent of its fleet of 228-planes.
Management
More than 20 per cent of Qantas management and head office support jobs will be slashed.
SpannerTwister
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Sorry for being such a sceptic but if GD makes an announcment that it's withing their current wages policy, then that must mean 3%.
As for a deal like the pilots have taken linked to management incentives and the like. Well I'm a sceptic there too. It's already been made clear that the days of massive bonuses to Execs are over. You just have to look at the penny pinching , money hungry pupets it produces.
Taking 3% with things like 1% super and the like are not adding to real wage growth which is what is needed here. Engineers have fallen way behind over the years and it shows by the inability to attract the right people to the job now. Investing in people should be just as important as investing in the other assets like aircraft and facilities. The company needs to make that a priority.
Things that are indexed to performance of the airline can be easily manipulated by the bean counters and and end up being of no real benefit at all.
REAL WAGE GROWTH. I will be looking forward to 5% on monday. No less. Don't disappoint SP.
As for the doomsday speeches that are going on by GD. Go ahead make your staff cuts. I think engineers have demonstrated that by not working excesive hours that they are already well understaffed and in short supply. Pilots are the same. I think they have already cut their staff by stealth over the years with their demorilising campaign that GD and his cronies have run.
As for fuel prices. Big deal. Put the fairs up. Everyone has the same problem it's a level playing field. Everyone in the transport industry has the same problem. People expect to pay more to drive to the airport, why shouldn't they pay more when they get on the plane.
Why are the staff expected to foot the bill for the passengers higher fuel cost?
So I'll be eagerly anticipating Monday. But I have to tell you I have my doubts that we've been sold a dud.
GD will be gone soon, with him goes the money that should have gone to the hard working staff of the airline. That will never be forgotten. To now add performance incentives when they know they won't happen, what a slap in the face.
I think the board of Qantas should be doing the rounds of the grass roots levels to see just how the years of GD management has gutted this great airline.
As for a deal like the pilots have taken linked to management incentives and the like. Well I'm a sceptic there too. It's already been made clear that the days of massive bonuses to Execs are over. You just have to look at the penny pinching , money hungry pupets it produces.
Taking 3% with things like 1% super and the like are not adding to real wage growth which is what is needed here. Engineers have fallen way behind over the years and it shows by the inability to attract the right people to the job now. Investing in people should be just as important as investing in the other assets like aircraft and facilities. The company needs to make that a priority.
Things that are indexed to performance of the airline can be easily manipulated by the bean counters and and end up being of no real benefit at all.
REAL WAGE GROWTH. I will be looking forward to 5% on monday. No less. Don't disappoint SP.
As for the doomsday speeches that are going on by GD. Go ahead make your staff cuts. I think engineers have demonstrated that by not working excesive hours that they are already well understaffed and in short supply. Pilots are the same. I think they have already cut their staff by stealth over the years with their demorilising campaign that GD and his cronies have run.
As for fuel prices. Big deal. Put the fairs up. Everyone has the same problem it's a level playing field. Everyone in the transport industry has the same problem. People expect to pay more to drive to the airport, why shouldn't they pay more when they get on the plane.
Why are the staff expected to foot the bill for the passengers higher fuel cost?
So I'll be eagerly anticipating Monday. But I have to tell you I have my doubts that we've been sold a dud.
GD will be gone soon, with him goes the money that should have gone to the hard working staff of the airline. That will never be forgotten. To now add performance incentives when they know they won't happen, what a slap in the face.
I think the board of Qantas should be doing the rounds of the grass roots levels to see just how the years of GD management has gutted this great airline.
Last edited by Torqueman; 18th Jul 2008 at 02:46.
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press release lifted off another thread thanks to angle of attack
QANTAS ANNOUNCES JOB AND CAPACITY CUTS
SYDNEY, 18 July 2008: The Qantas Group said today it would cut 1,500 jobs worldwide
in response to the sustained high oil prices and changing economic conditions.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas Airways Limited, Mr Geoff Dixon, said that in
addition to the job cuts, Qantas would not implement its budgeted growth in flying in the
2008/09 financial year and would cancel plans to hire a further 1,200 people for that
growth.
Mr Dixon said every effort would be made to achieve the job cuts through voluntary
redundancy, early retirements, leave without pay, an accelerated leave program and
converting positions from full-time to part-time.
“However, some compulsory redundancies will be necessary, which we regret.
“The jobs to be cut will be principally concentrated in non-operational areas, although
operational positions will also go.”
“Over 20 per cent of our management and head office support jobs will be cut,” he said.
“The redundancy program will be completed by December.”
Mr Dixon said the aviation industry was facing a major crisis throughout the world and
Qantas needed to act decisively to ensure its future.
“Acting now, on top of the measures already taken, will protect our competitive position,
protect the great majority of over 36,000 jobs and enable us to grow profitably when
conditions improve.
Mr Dixon said as a result of today’s decision, the Qantas group would:
- maintain a recruitment and executive pay freeze for the foreseeable future;
- reduce forecast capacity growth in 2008/09 from eight per cent to nil growth;
-retire up to 22 older aircraft from its fleet of 228 (including announcements previously
made);
- close its long-running call centres in Tucson, Arizona and London at a cost of 99 jobs,
and concentrate all its call centre activity in Australia and New Zealand;
- suspend Jetstar’s recruitment program until the end of the year, including its recruitment
of pilots under the 457 visa program; and
- close Jetstar’s cabin crew and pilot base in Adelaide by the end of August, with Jetstar’s
37 return weekly Adelaide flights to remain and be serviced by aircraft and staff based
in Darwin and Sydney.
Mr Dixon said Qantas would also:
- proceed with its major fleet re-equipment program of new and more fuel efficient aircraft
such as the A380 and B787; and
- proceed with its customer-focused product and service initiatives such as domestic
Business class lounges, terminal facilities and opening the new Qantas Customer
Service Centre of Excellence.
He said Qantas was very conscious of the important role it played in business and tourism
throughout metropolitan and regional Australia.
“This was uppermost in our mind when reviewing all aspects of our operations in recent
weeks and, as a result, the latest schedule changes mostly involve a reduction of capacity
on some routes and not the wholesale elimination of routes.
“Also we need to keep developing new opportunities and we will, for example, proceed
with opening up already announced new direct services between Sydney and Buenos
Aires in November.”
Mr Dixon said Qantas had successfully responded, with the valuable support of its people
and its customers, to many crises since privatisation in 1995.
“We are confident of doing the same again, particularly now that we have reached an in
principle agreement with the union representing our engineers, the ALAEA. This should
mean a quick cessation to the difficulties our customers have experienced over the past
ten weeks.”
Mr Dixon said the agreement, and the one reached on Wednesday with AIPA, the union
representing 1,800 pilots, provided greater flexibility for Qantas and its pilots and its
SYDNEY, 18 July 2008: The Qantas Group said today it would cut 1,500 jobs worldwide
in response to the sustained high oil prices and changing economic conditions.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas Airways Limited, Mr Geoff Dixon, said that in
addition to the job cuts, Qantas would not implement its budgeted growth in flying in the
2008/09 financial year and would cancel plans to hire a further 1,200 people for that
growth.
Mr Dixon said every effort would be made to achieve the job cuts through voluntary
redundancy, early retirements, leave without pay, an accelerated leave program and
converting positions from full-time to part-time.
“However, some compulsory redundancies will be necessary, which we regret.
“The jobs to be cut will be principally concentrated in non-operational areas, although
operational positions will also go.”
“Over 20 per cent of our management and head office support jobs will be cut,” he said.
“The redundancy program will be completed by December.”
Mr Dixon said the aviation industry was facing a major crisis throughout the world and
Qantas needed to act decisively to ensure its future.
“Acting now, on top of the measures already taken, will protect our competitive position,
protect the great majority of over 36,000 jobs and enable us to grow profitably when
conditions improve.
Mr Dixon said as a result of today’s decision, the Qantas group would:
- maintain a recruitment and executive pay freeze for the foreseeable future;
- reduce forecast capacity growth in 2008/09 from eight per cent to nil growth;
-retire up to 22 older aircraft from its fleet of 228 (including announcements previously
made);
- close its long-running call centres in Tucson, Arizona and London at a cost of 99 jobs,
and concentrate all its call centre activity in Australia and New Zealand;
- suspend Jetstar’s recruitment program until the end of the year, including its recruitment
of pilots under the 457 visa program; and
- close Jetstar’s cabin crew and pilot base in Adelaide by the end of August, with Jetstar’s
37 return weekly Adelaide flights to remain and be serviced by aircraft and staff based
in Darwin and Sydney.
Mr Dixon said Qantas would also:
- proceed with its major fleet re-equipment program of new and more fuel efficient aircraft
such as the A380 and B787; and
- proceed with its customer-focused product and service initiatives such as domestic
Business class lounges, terminal facilities and opening the new Qantas Customer
Service Centre of Excellence.
He said Qantas was very conscious of the important role it played in business and tourism
throughout metropolitan and regional Australia.
“This was uppermost in our mind when reviewing all aspects of our operations in recent
weeks and, as a result, the latest schedule changes mostly involve a reduction of capacity
on some routes and not the wholesale elimination of routes.
“Also we need to keep developing new opportunities and we will, for example, proceed
with opening up already announced new direct services between Sydney and Buenos
Aires in November.”
Mr Dixon said Qantas had successfully responded, with the valuable support of its people
and its customers, to many crises since privatisation in 1995.
“We are confident of doing the same again, particularly now that we have reached an in
principle agreement with the union representing our engineers, the ALAEA. This should
mean a quick cessation to the difficulties our customers have experienced over the past
ten weeks.”
Mr Dixon said the agreement, and the one reached on Wednesday with AIPA, the union
representing 1,800 pilots, provided greater flexibility for Qantas and its pilots and its
not me this time,
Nunc est bibendum
Geoff also made an announcement that the pilots made an agreement within the company's framework but some crew will end up with more than 3%. Sometimes it's good to let Geoff appear to have his win if you guys also get a win. Many ways to skin this particular cat.
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base pay + (base pay x 3%) + a + b + c = x
base pay + (base pay x 5%) = x
base pay + (base pay x 3%) = x - a + b + c
base pay = x - (base pay x 3%) - a - b - c
Doesn't matter how you work it out, as long as x = a real increased amount and the majority of LAMEs benefit, especially lower grades.
I can live with the wage part, how I can do my job better is another matter and I don't think boots up managers' quoits is a valid EBA claim.
base pay + (base pay x 5%) = x
base pay + (base pay x 3%) = x - a + b + c
base pay = x - (base pay x 3%) - a - b - c
Doesn't matter how you work it out, as long as x = a real increased amount and the majority of LAMEs benefit, especially lower grades.
I can live with the wage part, how I can do my job better is another matter and I don't think boots up managers' quoits is a valid EBA claim.
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I voted to let the union take us to war.
I will also accept their peace.
If the union endorses the deal I will vote YES
they know the full facts and if they are happy so am I
I will also accept their peace.
If the union endorses the deal I will vote YES
they know the full facts and if they are happy so am I
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Hmmmmm
I bet there will be a clause in your 'new' in principle agreement that says something about dropping all or any pending legal proceedings during your campain. 
Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!
Maintain the rage, until Monday.
Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!
Maintain the rage, until Monday.
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Dont let us forget, the only way we say the last offering was with the union agreement in principle with QF management.
So far not much different this time..........except for the PIA.
Let's wait and see what is on the table and whether it is clear cut and NOT ambigous.
I wont give my vote so easily, I dont trust QF.
D4
So far not much different this time..........except for the PIA.
Let's wait and see what is on the table and whether it is clear cut and NOT ambigous.
I wont give my vote so easily, I dont trust QF.
D4
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While I reserve the right to reject any agreement that falls short of 5% across the board I just want to say thank you for all the hard work so far to all the union officials.
Also can I give a big slap on the back to all the LAME's across Qantas who have had the moral fortitude to stick together for a just cause, I know some of you have been under intense direct personal pressure from some so called managers and maybe financial pressure from your private circumstances, may you sleep well at night knowing that you have done the right thing.
Also can I give a big slap on the back to all the LAME's across Qantas who have had the moral fortitude to stick together for a just cause, I know some of you have been under intense direct personal pressure from some so called managers and maybe financial pressure from your private circumstances, may you sleep well at night knowing that you have done the right thing.
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SYDNEY, 18 July 2008: Qantas said today it had reached an in-principle agreement with the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) on a new four-year enterprise agreement for the airline’s 1,500 licensed engineers.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, welcomed the agreement which was reached last night.
“Both parties approached yesterday’s negotiations in good faith and with a determination to reach an agreement that was acceptable to the airline, the union and its members,” Mr Dixon said.
“The terms of the agreement remain confidential until next week, but they are within the framework of our wages policy.
“Importantly, the union ceased its industrial action last night, which will be welcome news for our customers.
“It will, however, be several weeks until all of our aircraft are available to operate our normal schedule.
“As a result, some flight disruptions will continue in the short term and we will continue to cancel some flights as necessary, with customers accommodated on other services.”
The agreement will come into effect when it is voted on by Qantas’ 1,500 licensed engineers.
The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, welcomed the agreement which was reached last night.
“Both parties approached yesterday’s negotiations in good faith and with a determination to reach an agreement that was acceptable to the airline, the union and its members,” Mr Dixon said.
“The terms of the agreement remain confidential until next week, but they are within the framework of our wages policy.
“Importantly, the union ceased its industrial action last night, which will be welcome news for our customers.
“It will, however, be several weeks until all of our aircraft are available to operate our normal schedule.
“As a result, some flight disruptions will continue in the short term and we will continue to cancel some flights as necessary, with customers accommodated on other services.”
The agreement will come into effect when it is voted on by Qantas’ 1,500 licensed engineers.
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Translation Required???
"The terms of the agreement remain confidential until next week, but they are within the framework of our wages policy." - Geoff Dixon
I posted a couple of days ago, just a factual post, which a few laughed about.
I indicated a 3% per annum deal would occur, and it has. I'm not sure why so many in here are so confused.
No union was going to get more than 3%, unfortunately, your expectations were raised. That's why you are not getting any details until monday.
All of us dserve more than 3%, but unfortunately, this was never going to happen.
I posted a couple of days ago, just a factual post, which a few laughed about.
I indicated a 3% per annum deal would occur, and it has. I'm not sure why so many in here are so confused.
No union was going to get more than 3%, unfortunately, your expectations were raised. That's why you are not getting any details until monday.
All of us dserve more than 3%, but unfortunately, this was never going to happen.
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Thanks for all the hard work ALAEA guys.
I would like to thank management for showing me the error of my ways.
Since I stopped doing OT I found out I actually like my wife, kids and friends and enjoyed spending my days off with them.
So weather PIA is “on” or “off” will make no difference to me now.
I will never be return to the OT merry-go-round. I will be enjoying my life away from QF on my days off.
Lets face it, the more OT you do = the more money you get = the more money you spend.
You always adjust your spending habits to what you earn.
The only difference OT makes is how much time you spend away from family and friends.
Thanks again to all.
I would like to thank management for showing me the error of my ways.
Since I stopped doing OT I found out I actually like my wife, kids and friends and enjoyed spending my days off with them.
So weather PIA is “on” or “off” will make no difference to me now.
I will never be return to the OT merry-go-round. I will be enjoying my life away from QF on my days off.
Lets face it, the more OT you do = the more money you get = the more money you spend.
You always adjust your spending habits to what you earn.
The only difference OT makes is how much time you spend away from family and friends.
Thanks again to all.
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It looks plain to see that it's going to be 3%
What happens in a couple of years when the next lot of QF EBAs are due and the new head honcho, PG, says that the new "board approved wages framework is now 1.5%" You don't think it's possible?
Maybe Kev07's new IR system will help us
What happens in a couple of years when the next lot of QF EBAs are due and the new head honcho, PG, says that the new "board approved wages framework is now 1.5%" You don't think it's possible?
Maybe Kev07's new IR system will help us
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Originally Posted by Rak-a-san
........I know that you guys [Ed..SP and co] would have only accepted an offer that you thought reasonable, however its made up, whether (wage rise + trinkets).
I'm pretty positive we'll only be getting a "headline" 3% raise too, but do I care ? Not if, as R-A-S says, we get 3% + 2% worth of pretty shiny baubles
Let's at least give SP the benefit of the doubt over the weekend and see what Monday brings
Any QE Managers postings between now and Monday can safely be ignored, they're under pressure this weekend
!!What 20% of mid-level managers are going ? Want to play "Make-A-Wish"
?SpannerTwister