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Walk the Talk
Talk the talk, walk the walk.
well i say walk the talk
talk is cheap.
You know how i will vote, but
Can we get a better deal?
at this moment i think not.
I hope you can prove me wrong but all i can see is a bunch of scared guys hoping it won't happen, doing as much O/T to offset what may happen.
Informal O/T bans are routinely ignored,
Grow a backbone you lot, look around,
If you feel strongly about it, vote with your feet, not your mouth.
Get some respect,
self respect
well i say walk the talk
talk is cheap.
You know how i will vote, but
Can we get a better deal?
at this moment i think not.
I hope you can prove me wrong but all i can see is a bunch of scared guys hoping it won't happen, doing as much O/T to offset what may happen.
Informal O/T bans are routinely ignored,
Grow a backbone you lot, look around,
If you feel strongly about it, vote with your feet, not your mouth.
Get some respect,
self respect
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I have deliberatley stayed away from this site (self imposed ban) however have gone through these posting and i see Sunfish is back again, delberatley stiring things up.
Sunfish you do not have a stake in what happens here so i respectfully suggest that you not inflame things further.
What happerns if this vote goes down? what next? we go to IRC to plead our case again then the whole process starts again with little certainty of the future.
My vote will be yes, am not sure if we could get better but regardless i need the certainy in the current mortgage climate.
Each to there own but, suffice to say, the writing is on the wall, to those who will vote no, good luck, if the no vote is in the majority the fracture will be permanent, what you do not seem to understan is that the viability of the union will be tested if this goes down and the damage may never be repaired.
To those PIA war mongerers, you need to have an exit strategy to go to battle, we do not have one nor could we guarantee unity if times got tough, so therefore the decision for me is an easy one.
Sunfish you do not have a stake in what happens here so i respectfully suggest that you not inflame things further.
What happerns if this vote goes down? what next? we go to IRC to plead our case again then the whole process starts again with little certainty of the future.
My vote will be yes, am not sure if we could get better but regardless i need the certainy in the current mortgage climate.
Each to there own but, suffice to say, the writing is on the wall, to those who will vote no, good luck, if the no vote is in the majority the fracture will be permanent, what you do not seem to understan is that the viability of the union will be tested if this goes down and the damage may never be repaired.
To those PIA war mongerers, you need to have an exit strategy to go to battle, we do not have one nor could we guarantee unity if times got tough, so therefore the decision for me is an easy one.
Calling Bluffs
Knuckles:
You are obviously not a poker player.
How the heck would you know if a better deal could not be obtained?
The closest both you and DC can come to a rational, logical determination of your worth is international benchmarking, suitably adjusted for cost of living, exchange rates, tax, etc. Has your executive or international association done that? Perhaps it should.
Qantas itself would have a good idea of man hour / Block hour ratios and how theirs benchmark against other airlines, but they sure as hell won't tell you unless it suited their negotiating stance.
So absent this logical wage setting process (which was torpedoed many years ago by Government) you are playing poker with the company. You have absolutely no idea what QF's actual "worst case" (ie: Best for you) position might be, I don't think even DC would know this.
Lets be very clear on what we mean by this: It means the point at which QF Board will approve the deal with much gnashing of teeth, and real (not pretend) screaming and crying - but will still grudgingly approve.
The only way to find if you are even close to this pain point is to call their bluff.
The reason you are all in extremis now is that in successive EBA's no one has called QF's Bluff. So you don't know what you are really worth to Qantas do you? Furthermore, during successive EBA's, your knowledge of what you were worth to Qantas has progressively deteriorated, thanks to the negotiating stance of your former executive.
Now Qantas management would regard this is a very desirable state for LAMES to be placed in, because scared, fearful, people who doubt their own worth are very easy to bargain with because they won't call anyone's bluff.
Rest assured, Qantas will do everything possible by way of engendering fear, uncertainty and doubt in all your minds to get you to accept the deal without calling it's bluff. Thats what all the crap about "Legacy airline", "Outsourcing" and "Asian MRO's" means as well as QF managements constant whining about costs. Thats just good business sense - always whine about costs with a straight face, especially when you are making off with tonnes of loot. Farmers have got this down to an art form (a pet peeve of mine).
And unless you do call their bluff, you will never know if they were bluffing will you?
Furthermore, as each EBA slips away without the bluff ever having been called it becomes progressively easier to bluff you.
Now it may be that Qantas is not bluffing, but there is no way you can find out. This is just a statement of fact.
You are in a take it or leave it position, the only thing being obvious is that if you do, then absent radical international change, your bargaining position will be even weaker next time you confront the same management.
It's up to you.
P.S. Wingers appears right on cue and with a predictable FUD message. I would expect others with a similar viewpoint (signed up in late 2007/early 2008) will make their appearance shortly. Perhaps QF might actually try and swamp this forum with a hundred or so newbie trolls.
And Wingers, I am simply stating the facts and attempting to clarify the true position you guys are in, which for the record is:
1. You guys have been given a vote. There is no external penalty or moral or ethical reason to vote one way or the other, despite what people have tried to tell you in the past. (eg: "Its unprofessional to grovel for money", "we have a duty to the Australian travelling public")
You guys are in a wages negotiation. Morality doesn't come into it. You have a vote. Use it as you see fit.
2. You are playing poker with your employer. You have been made an offer. You are told that it is final. There is only one way you can find out if this is true, just like poker. It's up to you.
3. I have no stake in any outcome. What does offend my sense of equity and fairness is the amount of slimy misinformation, fear uncertainty and doubt (FUD) that has been fed to you through the pages of Pprune over the years in connection with your pay and conditions, and the obvious distress this has caused many of you, and that is why I've posted.
Can we get a better deal?
at this moment i think not.
at this moment i think not.
You are obviously not a poker player.
How the heck would you know if a better deal could not be obtained?
The closest both you and DC can come to a rational, logical determination of your worth is international benchmarking, suitably adjusted for cost of living, exchange rates, tax, etc. Has your executive or international association done that? Perhaps it should.
Qantas itself would have a good idea of man hour / Block hour ratios and how theirs benchmark against other airlines, but they sure as hell won't tell you unless it suited their negotiating stance.
So absent this logical wage setting process (which was torpedoed many years ago by Government) you are playing poker with the company. You have absolutely no idea what QF's actual "worst case" (ie: Best for you) position might be, I don't think even DC would know this.
Lets be very clear on what we mean by this: It means the point at which QF Board will approve the deal with much gnashing of teeth, and real (not pretend) screaming and crying - but will still grudgingly approve.
The only way to find if you are even close to this pain point is to call their bluff.
The reason you are all in extremis now is that in successive EBA's no one has called QF's Bluff. So you don't know what you are really worth to Qantas do you? Furthermore, during successive EBA's, your knowledge of what you were worth to Qantas has progressively deteriorated, thanks to the negotiating stance of your former executive.
Now Qantas management would regard this is a very desirable state for LAMES to be placed in, because scared, fearful, people who doubt their own worth are very easy to bargain with because they won't call anyone's bluff.
Rest assured, Qantas will do everything possible by way of engendering fear, uncertainty and doubt in all your minds to get you to accept the deal without calling it's bluff. Thats what all the crap about "Legacy airline", "Outsourcing" and "Asian MRO's" means as well as QF managements constant whining about costs. Thats just good business sense - always whine about costs with a straight face, especially when you are making off with tonnes of loot. Farmers have got this down to an art form (a pet peeve of mine).
And unless you do call their bluff, you will never know if they were bluffing will you?
Furthermore, as each EBA slips away without the bluff ever having been called it becomes progressively easier to bluff you.
Now it may be that Qantas is not bluffing, but there is no way you can find out. This is just a statement of fact.
You are in a take it or leave it position, the only thing being obvious is that if you do, then absent radical international change, your bargaining position will be even weaker next time you confront the same management.
It's up to you.
P.S. Wingers appears right on cue and with a predictable FUD message. I would expect others with a similar viewpoint (signed up in late 2007/early 2008) will make their appearance shortly. Perhaps QF might actually try and swamp this forum with a hundred or so newbie trolls.
And Wingers, I am simply stating the facts and attempting to clarify the true position you guys are in, which for the record is:
1. You guys have been given a vote. There is no external penalty or moral or ethical reason to vote one way or the other, despite what people have tried to tell you in the past. (eg: "Its unprofessional to grovel for money", "we have a duty to the Australian travelling public")
You guys are in a wages negotiation. Morality doesn't come into it. You have a vote. Use it as you see fit.
2. You are playing poker with your employer. You have been made an offer. You are told that it is final. There is only one way you can find out if this is true, just like poker. It's up to you.
3. I have no stake in any outcome. What does offend my sense of equity and fairness is the amount of slimy misinformation, fear uncertainty and doubt (FUD) that has been fed to you through the pages of Pprune over the years in connection with your pay and conditions, and the obvious distress this has caused many of you, and that is why I've posted.
Last edited by Sunfish; 20th Feb 2008 at 19:51.
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The puppets
Thanks Sunfish,
Interesting company stooges don't like paid union meetings either, they interfere with getting the full story to all those to make an informed decision which may play havoc with their spineless self interest. Chastising their crews for being so irresponsible for attending even though they had themselves.
Interesting company stooges don't like paid union meetings either, they interfere with getting the full story to all those to make an informed decision which may play havoc with their spineless self interest. Chastising their crews for being so irresponsible for attending even though they had themselves.
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Sunfish, you should stick to text books , your constant self inflated opinions really drive me nuts.
I am not a gambler and your suggestion that we start playing poker with our finacial situations really is amazing.
Your lack of grasp of normal working people shows you are probably a retired Toorak or Vaucluse, or Peppermint Gove resident who has no grasp of the working man , all you seem to do is quote text books and accuse of FUD etc.
This is real life, not a text book, and i wont gamble my house on what if scenarios.
I am not a gambler and your suggestion that we start playing poker with our finacial situations really is amazing.
Your lack of grasp of normal working people shows you are probably a retired Toorak or Vaucluse, or Peppermint Gove resident who has no grasp of the working man , all you seem to do is quote text books and accuse of FUD etc.
This is real life, not a text book, and i wont gamble my house on what if scenarios.
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Having listened to the various points of view over the last few weeks I feel we need to stand up for one another. Although I would recieve about a 4.5% wage rise, I do not want to vote on someone else's roster!! I also do not want to impose a lower wage rise on other members of MY UNION!!
On the issue of the proposed roster "flexibilites", would it be possible for QE to impose the same type of 'chop and change' to ALL LAME's rosters if we include this in the current EBA proposal?
As we all know, a lot of ALAEA members read this forum, as do the managers, and to make any assumptions as to the feelings of the majority of members based solely on what is written here would be foolish. What I saw at the latest feedback meeting I attended was that ALL members present were unhappy with the current situation.
PIOT Bord asks about worlds best practice. Well, lets not confuse Worlds Best Practice with Worlds Best Maintained, Piloted, Serviced Airline. It would be more accurate to call it Worlds Best PROFITABLE Practice ( and that is Short Term Profit, as managers bonuses are based on annual results..... ).
On the issue of the proposed roster "flexibilites", would it be possible for QE to impose the same type of 'chop and change' to ALL LAME's rosters if we include this in the current EBA proposal?
As we all know, a lot of ALAEA members read this forum, as do the managers, and to make any assumptions as to the feelings of the majority of members based solely on what is written here would be foolish. What I saw at the latest feedback meeting I attended was that ALL members present were unhappy with the current situation.
PIOT Bord asks about worlds best practice. Well, lets not confuse Worlds Best Practice with Worlds Best Maintained, Piloted, Serviced Airline. It would be more accurate to call it Worlds Best PROFITABLE Practice ( and that is Short Term Profit, as managers bonuses are based on annual results..... ).
Ripper Wingers - a personal attack and another dose of FUD at the same time.
Whether you like it or not Wingers, you ARE playing a game of poker. You have no choice. You collectively want more than the company wishes to pay. You either call their bluff and take PIA or you fold and take their offer.
It's your choice, thats why you were given a vote - assuming you really are a member of the ALAEA and not a managers sock puppet.
What you appear to be saying is "Don't risk it, PIA is too dangerous, just fold". You are entitled to your opinion, but if you fold, you'll never know if QF was bluffing will you?
P.S. The reason you stayed away from this discussion is that others smarter than me saw through you and your agenda, and you ran for the door.
Come on QF how about getting some contractors to try and swamp this thread?
I am not a gambler and your suggestion that we start playing poker with our finacial (sic) situations really is amazing.
Your lack of grasp of normal working people ...........................(rest of personal attack irrelevent and deleted - actually I was once a member of an aviation related union and I was stitched up like you have been more than once. I know exactly what it feels like to be the sole breadwinner with a baby and a mortgage, and my pay not keeping up with inflation)
This is real life, not a text book, and i(sic) wont (sic) gamble my house on what if scenarios.
Your lack of grasp of normal working people ...........................(rest of personal attack irrelevent and deleted - actually I was once a member of an aviation related union and I was stitched up like you have been more than once. I know exactly what it feels like to be the sole breadwinner with a baby and a mortgage, and my pay not keeping up with inflation)
This is real life, not a text book, and i(sic) wont (sic) gamble my house on what if scenarios.
It's your choice, thats why you were given a vote - assuming you really are a member of the ALAEA and not a managers sock puppet.
What you appear to be saying is "Don't risk it, PIA is too dangerous, just fold". You are entitled to your opinion, but if you fold, you'll never know if QF was bluffing will you?
P.S. The reason you stayed away from this discussion is that others smarter than me saw through you and your agenda, and you ran for the door.
Come on QF how about getting some contractors to try and swamp this thread?
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Selling the line
Wingers,
I have a mortgage and rising interest rates, I need to pay for groceries and their real above cpi increases, I need to fund my childs education even at a public school, I need to pay private health cause if I don't I will be fined essentially or receive even poorer standard of access for standard items. I need to fund rising fuel costs. My real wage has significantly reduced over the last 10 years. The same period my productivity has significantly increased.
I do not get paid bonus's for poor performance like QF management, their real wage has increased astronomically along with their bonus's ,company profits, lies and FUD. The company performance is severely restricted by these clowns not the workforce.
The only Legacy left at QF is the management sitting at about 30% of employees not 10-15%. Piss off the deadwood and the baggage of bonus's attached to it and you could actually pay someone fairly to perform needed work. We don't need that amount of paper generators! These clowns continually implement things that don't work, and stuff things that do work.
I need a rise, I am confident enough in myself to expect it and fight for it. Inflation is 3.5%, wage inflation is 4.6%. QF's group wage policy is 3% and 10 years old and now well behind and time for adjustment.
QF profit increased again today and expected more again.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-31037,00.html
Give it up, time to share or put it all at risk!
I have a mortgage and rising interest rates, I need to pay for groceries and their real above cpi increases, I need to fund my childs education even at a public school, I need to pay private health cause if I don't I will be fined essentially or receive even poorer standard of access for standard items. I need to fund rising fuel costs. My real wage has significantly reduced over the last 10 years. The same period my productivity has significantly increased.
I do not get paid bonus's for poor performance like QF management, their real wage has increased astronomically along with their bonus's ,company profits, lies and FUD. The company performance is severely restricted by these clowns not the workforce.
The only Legacy left at QF is the management sitting at about 30% of employees not 10-15%. Piss off the deadwood and the baggage of bonus's attached to it and you could actually pay someone fairly to perform needed work. We don't need that amount of paper generators! These clowns continually implement things that don't work, and stuff things that do work.
I need a rise, I am confident enough in myself to expect it and fight for it. Inflation is 3.5%, wage inflation is 4.6%. QF's group wage policy is 3% and 10 years old and now well behind and time for adjustment.
QF profit increased again today and expected more again.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...-31037,00.html
Give it up, time to share or put it all at risk!
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Hot off the Press!
Reuters/AAP Qantas Airways Ltd has doubled its first-half profit, beating market estimates and said it was on track to achieve at least a 40 per cent rise in full-year earnings
I work hard. We all work hard. The profits keep soaring and yet I cannot keep up with inflation, interest rate rises, petrol prices, etc.
The 3% wage rise policy was only relevent a decade ago when the numbers were down. Watch the managers take their share of the profits while the staff get screwed.
Vote NO. Take 5. Not 3.
The pilots say No because they have some pride. LAME's, you deserve your real profit share.
The only 3% I will be happy with is a future with DC & MH gone!
I work hard. We all work hard. The profits keep soaring and yet I cannot keep up with inflation, interest rate rises, petrol prices, etc.
The 3% wage rise policy was only relevent a decade ago when the numbers were down. Watch the managers take their share of the profits while the staff get screwed.
Vote NO. Take 5. Not 3.
The pilots say No because they have some pride. LAME's, you deserve your real profit share.
The only 3% I will be happy with is a future with DC & MH gone!
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What's the plan Stan?
What are we going to fight over?
When is 5% not 5%,
when 5% is taxed at 40%
leaving 3.6% in our pocket
not really a payrise
more like indexation to CPI
If we want a payrise, not pay indexation,
the goal has to be greater than 5%,
If the current offer is voted down, and we sit on the grass,
why not go for 10%
at least then it would be a 2.4% increase over indexation.
(10% - 4%(40% tax) - 3.6% inflation)
Will the talkers - walk the talk?
we shall see.
P.S.
I don't care what QE's worst or best position is or could be.
It is a good enough deal for me, and thats how i will vote.
Sunfish Bugger off.
When is 5% not 5%,
when 5% is taxed at 40%
leaving 3.6% in our pocket
not really a payrise
more like indexation to CPI
If we want a payrise, not pay indexation,
the goal has to be greater than 5%,
If the current offer is voted down, and we sit on the grass,
why not go for 10%
at least then it would be a 2.4% increase over indexation.
(10% - 4%(40% tax) - 3.6% inflation)
Will the talkers - walk the talk?
we shall see.
P.S.
I don't care what QE's worst or best position is or could be.
It is a good enough deal for me, and thats how i will vote.
Sunfish Bugger off.
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Wingers
This is real life, not a text book, and i wont gamble my house on what if scenarios.
And did they end up with a worse offer??
Look at the big picture. In the current climate, the current regime expect to pay a higher price for labour. However, they would be remiss in their duty to maximise profits for the shareholders if they didn't try to reduce costs in real terms over time. Not to mention the corrupting influence of bonuses which play to human greed and self-interest. Put yourself in their shoes. Wouldn't you drive a hard bargain, the hardest bargain you possibly could, knowing you had a duty and a responsibility to do so, and to fail to do so would result in a smaller bonus?
By voting YES, you are doing more than just accepting the company's first offer. You are doing management's work for them, "keeping a lid" on wages growth. Let me point out that the lid, in real terms, is being screwed down tighter, year upon year.
You are accepting that you have a declining (in real terms) self-worth, when the majority of the worker-bees in a booming economy with no signs of negative growth have an increasing expectation of wage growth and have received it in the past.
You are accepting the way we have all been treated by the current regime.
You are accepting, to be more polite than is warranted, an aloof, "Us Vs. Them" management style.
I recently spoke to a former QF manager who left the company a couple of decades ago. He talked about how QF Engineering was almost revered around the world, how QF aircraft were maintained to such a high standard, that maintenance supervisors in foreign ports would 'pull rank' on their subordinates in order to work on the aircraft, because they were such a joy to work on. Now we have 1000 hour A-checks, no Sydney heavy maintenance, outsourcing to a greater degree, engines not lasting 6 weeks on the wing, the fleet kept flying with ATPs, LAMEs adding plastic sleeves to fit more hold items and pilots refusing to fly aircraft because of the combinations of defects. Wingers, are you saying that this state of affairs should be REWARDED by voting YES?
He spoke of the then management's respect for the role of the engineers. Where has that respect gone?
He also spoke of NASA. The head of NASA recently stated that after multiple disasters, they had made the best decision in the history of the organisation. That decision was to put engineers in management meetings to be the one to say, "Guys, I'm sorry but you just can't do that, and here's why..." Somehow the sad truth of reality on the floor escapes some people in their ivory towers.
So take a concrete pill and HARDEN UP.
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knuckledragger1
If the current offer is voted down, and we sit on the grass,
why not go for 10%
why not go for 10%
If the current offer is voted down, and we sit on the grass
Knuckles:
So basically you write meaningless drivel, try to sound assertive and aggressive, then conclude in two later posts that a better outcome is unobtainable, the deal can't be improved on, the amount is so paltry after tax anyway that there is no point in taking PIA over it (what an insidious lump of FUD) and that therefore you will take it as better than nothing. Perhaps with the unspoken suggestion that at the NEXT EBA you will get tough and get a real raise and win back your position
As I asked before: How would or could you possibly know if the company's offer is the best and only one that it is prepared to make?
I also note you joined Pprune in Dec 2007.
Others can draw their own conclusions.
I guess the next troll that comes along will raise the threat of further outsourcing if you don't roll over. Guys, you know they will do that anyway whether you accept their offer or not.
You are dealing with narcissists, they thrive on your pain and despair, it's like nectar to them, constantly reinforcing their self importance. Agreeing to this proposal will not raise your stature in the eyes of QF management (although as a negotiating tactic, they will tell you how "professional" you are to accept their proposal, your previous exec apparently got caught that way).
Nope, whatever you agree to, they will want more, and when you have nothing left to give, they will curse you and discard you.
It's up to you not me, and I thank God I am not in your situation.
The sole thing that we have absolute control of is our opinion.
Voting is the way we express this opinion
Right now we stand as 1600 odd seperate opinions yet to be heard.
The process for the EBA will tally up our individual votes and come to decision.
At that point, we will stand as one.
Be it for or against.
If the LAMEs in HM are strong enough in numbers, then their opinions will win the day, and I will sit on the grass with them.
However, if the result appears to hijacked by a small minority, I will be disappointed.
I will nonetheless observe my obligations and comply with what is requested by the Exec.
Let's hope the result is representative of the true opinions of our membership.
Woe betide the member who does not stand with his compatriots.
Voting is the way we express this opinion
Right now we stand as 1600 odd seperate opinions yet to be heard.
The process for the EBA will tally up our individual votes and come to decision.
At that point, we will stand as one.
Be it for or against.
If the LAMEs in HM are strong enough in numbers, then their opinions will win the day, and I will sit on the grass with them.
However, if the result appears to hijacked by a small minority, I will be disappointed.
I will nonetheless observe my obligations and comply with what is requested by the Exec.
Let's hope the result is representative of the true opinions of our membership.
Woe betide the member who does not stand with his compatriots.
As I asked before: How would or could you possibly know if the company's offer is the best and only one that it is prepared to make?
I also note you joined Pprune in Dec 2007.
Others can draw their own conclusions.
I guess the next troll that comes along will raise the threat of further outsourcing if you don't roll over. Guys, you know they will do that anyway whether you accept their offer or not.
You are dealing with narcissists, they thrive on your pain and despair, it's like nectar to them, constantly reinforcing their self importance. Agreeing to this proposal will not raise your stature in the eyes of QF management (although as a negotiating tactic, they will tell you how "professional" you are to accept their proposal, your previous exec apparently got caught that way).
Nope, whatever you agree to, they will want more, and when you have nothing left to give, they will curse you and discard you.
It's up to you not me, and I thank God I am not in your situation.
Last edited by Sunfish; 21st Feb 2008 at 00:55.
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To Start off me hates sparkies, secondly me hates managers but enough of me
I have joined the throing of people on this forum for one reason only to express MY OPINION
In god's honest truth, if this deal negotated was the best deal ever by the union without going war as it was siad at our meeting , all it's work was undone by
Selfish , Stupid and Vindictive QANTAS MANAGERS
if they had keep their noses out instead of pedling lies and bullsh!t it may have got off the ground with the members seeing it's value.
This is there lies
- Everyone will get a level from this agreement
- XPT is gone and you think you've had a win think again we will bury you in other ways
- Now the rosters are in the EBA we will put you all in one bucket and the majority will override the minority
- AVV LAMEs will never go OS again with outsourced aircraft (Wannabe manager with a numbers obsession)
FFS idiocy knows no bounds, above info cortesy of my friends in Sydney and my own experence)
QF RECORD profits again will Geoff and his buddes take a pay freeze like the pollies NO HOPE IN HELL
All for one and one for all my ar$e
I will get my 5% out of this but is it worth my soul as hick as it is
I may be an irk but I don't lie to suit my needs my dad tought me that
I have joined the throing of people on this forum for one reason only to express MY OPINION
In god's honest truth, if this deal negotated was the best deal ever by the union without going war as it was siad at our meeting , all it's work was undone by
Selfish , Stupid and Vindictive QANTAS MANAGERS
if they had keep their noses out instead of pedling lies and bullsh!t it may have got off the ground with the members seeing it's value.
This is there lies
- Everyone will get a level from this agreement
- XPT is gone and you think you've had a win think again we will bury you in other ways
- Now the rosters are in the EBA we will put you all in one bucket and the majority will override the minority
- AVV LAMEs will never go OS again with outsourced aircraft (Wannabe manager with a numbers obsession)
FFS idiocy knows no bounds, above info cortesy of my friends in Sydney and my own experence)
QF RECORD profits again will Geoff and his buddes take a pay freeze like the pollies NO HOPE IN HELL
All for one and one for all my ar$e
I will get my 5% out of this but is it worth my soul as hick as it is
I may be an irk but I don't lie to suit my needs my dad tought me that
Knuckles, love:
Exactly why do you think this????? Do you have a private line to God???
Why won't you answer my simple question??????
There is no way you could possibly know, there is no way I could know. There is no way even DC could know, and only one way to find out, because the ultimate decision, if push ever came to shove lies with GD and his Board of Directors.
Where do you think the buck stopped with the Wharfies dispute?
In the immortal words of Yoda: "Do or do not, there is no try."
Can we get a better deal?
at this moment i think not.
at this moment i think not.
Exactly why do you think this????? Do you have a private line to God???
Why won't you answer my simple question??????
There is no way you could possibly know, there is no way I could know. There is no way even DC could know, and only one way to find out, because the ultimate decision, if push ever came to shove lies with GD and his Board of Directors.
Where do you think the buck stopped with the Wharfies dispute?
In the immortal words of Yoda: "Do or do not, there is no try."
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: sydney
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Sunfish you donkey
Why are you giving your opinions in matters that you have no idea about
Perhaps you should join the union, become our leader and lead us into those great green pastures. It would be a good result for QF management if that was the case.
You really do not have a clue , just an idiot donkey with no concept of real life, go grab another chardonay you fool.
Do you really think that a gamble after an in priciple agreement would result in a bigger offer, i think you may well be a stooge set up to distabilise the ALAEA, people will see through you, you Donkey.
Why are you giving your opinions in matters that you have no idea about
Perhaps you should join the union, become our leader and lead us into those great green pastures. It would be a good result for QF management if that was the case.
You really do not have a clue , just an idiot donkey with no concept of real life, go grab another chardonay you fool.
Do you really think that a gamble after an in priciple agreement would result in a bigger offer, i think you may well be a stooge set up to distabilise the ALAEA, people will see through you, you Donkey.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne
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Whinger and Knucklehead
Time to crawl back under the rocks from which you came
Your time is at an end, the spine is back in the ALAEA
Time to stand tall
Sunfish you talk of FUD and I have an answer
I sat in an ALAEA meeting and was told with absolute HONESTY the TRUTH of what lay before us by men of INTEGRITY I have never asked for anything more
HIT (Honesty, Integrity and the Truth)
In other words they just HIT FUD for a six and they get my vote
Time to crawl back under the rocks from which you came
Your time is at an end, the spine is back in the ALAEA
Time to stand tall
Sunfish you talk of FUD and I have an answer
I sat in an ALAEA meeting and was told with absolute HONESTY the TRUTH of what lay before us by men of INTEGRITY I have never asked for anything more
HIT (Honesty, Integrity and the Truth)
In other words they just HIT FUD for a six and they get my vote