Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[Johnny V]

Do not spread Lies Fixit

The quota system is the greatest thing since sliced bread both for the company and the LAMEs, being that we've both pegged those fkn electricians back a few

Now the dumb a$$ knuckle draggers are being qouta restricted and they are starting to sook like women pity them fools ha ha

6% a year on average each LAME hard done by and when this EBA gets up it'll be rostering heaven for Heavy and ACS

[lordofthewings]

Not to worry. If EASA system ever gets in, itll be off to the workshops for most coneheads anyway. F.ck wont that be nice

[Konehead]

B1 Greasers asking B2 avionics guys how to rectify electrical defects. F**K wont that be nice.

[lordofthewings]

Konehead, it will be nice...

[Konehead]

Not to worry. If EASA system ever gets in, itll be off to the workshops for most coneheads anyway. F.ck wont that be nice

B1 Greasers asking B2 avionics guys how to rectify electrical defects. F**K wont that be nice.

Konehead, it will be nice...

LOTW, allow me to make my point more clearly: B1 (airframe, engine & electrical) LAMEs coming cap in hand to the few remaining avionics guys in the form of B2 (instrument & radio) LAMEs - those that haven't been packed "off to the workshops" - begging their help in rectifying an electrical defect for which they will have certification responsibility but no background knowledge, institutional memory, interest or experience on how to fix. My apologies to any mechanical LAMEs who find offence.

lordofthewings, you must work in Base where that long-standing prejudice survives and thrives. Pretty sad really. I thought we were ONE union. This kind of divisive "us and them" thinking is what has worked in the company's favour to date. Divide and conquer.

And I think we both digress from the point of this thread - the battle between the ALAEA (us) and the company (them). You should reserve your prejudice for your brothers working overtime at everyone else's expense. I mean, after all they are removing the pressure on the company, helping make a rotten system work and taking money from all our pockets in the long term - just to line their own pockets in the short term. We wouldn't tolerate a colleague stealing our lunch, so why do we tolerate the short-sighted and money hungry among us? BLACK-BALL THE BASTARDS!!! The sooner we get this EBA sorted, the sooner we can all get back to working O/T if that's what we want to do. And we'll all be working the O/T at a higher rate, not just some of us. Everyone's a winner. It just needs a little sacrifice from all of us, not the "everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't I" attitude.

[another superlame]

B1 and B2 is already here ladies and I don't think it will change. Now the company will have all the power in who they licence and who they don't. Right now only Aviation Australia can do B1/2 training,QF training isn't even considering holding it. In fact they offered to buy AA but they didn't want to pay the asking price.
B1 training is about 20-25k to do the complete course which is what most framies will need, and I don't see many being able to afford that amount of cash plus the 3-4 months of time to do it.
So all you whinging coneheads pull your head in and just except it. This is a QF coup that has happened right in front of all of you. This isn't A380 specific this is for all new future aircraft.
And truly it can't be that hard to change a lamp or an LRU. It might also allow a/c to leave on time,as I remember it most last minute defects are electrical and trying to get a cone to leave the comfort of the smoko room is near impossible..
So B1/2 is here to stay get used to it.

[Konehead]

B1 and B2 is already here ladies and I don't think it will change.

Incorrect. The Euros, esp. the Brits are looking at changing B1/B2 by removing electrical privileges from B1s and giving them to B2s. It appears that the Aussie system of "Avionics" and "Mechanical" is worlds best practice! What a laugh, if we in Aus cast aside a sensible system and replace it with a system the Euro's aren't entirely happy with themselves and might change.

And truly it can't be that hard to change a lamp or an LRU.

Granted. But have you read a next-gen aircraft's FIM? It frequently leads you down the garden path, when common sense and more importantly experience tell you to do something different, which usually turns out to be correct. You can't buy that experience. It makes far more sense to leverage off a high starting point than to play catch-up from a low starting point.

as I remember it most last minute defects are electrical and trying to get a cone to leave the comfort of the smoko room is near impossible..

Oh Diddums, did you tick the wrong box on your employment application? Jealous perhaps? Very unbecoming of a superLAME.

Again, we're off topic. Go find another forum to air your prejudice. Once again, we are ONE UNION, fighting for what is rightfully ours and long overdue - a fair deal! Superlame, I hope your next contribution is relevant.

[lordofthewings]

Konehead, i am actually all for two separate trades. Just fishing for some bites.Love your work

[Sunfish]

OOOOH! Look! A new management troll! - Johnny V

This one has an agenda of getting you LAMES to fight each other - the divide and conquer method.

Look at his posts, they ooze internal division:

Heavy maint dopes complaining and Line maint buttheads lauding their superiority......................


The quota system is the greatest thing since sliced bread both for the company and the LAMEs, being that we've both pegged those fkn electricians back a few



Of Course ACS will accompany these AC overseas as we have NO ONE LEFT IN AVALON who can go oh unless you are one of the 60 SLIIs that exist on the backs of FORSTAFF...


No threat pretty boy

Tulla to JHAS and MAS

Brisvegas 767s to JHAS and SIA

Scabalon to SIA and HAECO


So all you twerps plan on voting NO Pahhhh...

[chemical alli]

this eba topic been debated and massdebated,
lets just return to some of the facts that every lame seems to have a gripe with.
the graded pay structure that nobody voted for but everyone whinges about.if this structure was not in effect then nobodies pay would increase,other then when an eba was voted on and then by only less than cpi.
would lames serving in base,sit,heavy actually be going backwards at a faster rate ? answer yes
unless capped, every four years you get a pay increase.
also for some of the right winged whinges look back at the award pre 97 and actually compare your licence payments,i think youll find you are much better off.
i ask the question if the offer now on the table was put fourth prior to the original offer with no nasties would it have been voted up ?
whilst angst toward management may prevail,do nto let it cloud your take home pay budget.
voting no on an eba will do nothing to fix the underlying issues of engineering.
not saying to vote yes or no just presenting some facts.
before the no 15% dayshift guys crucify me.i believe we should be fighting to have that re-instated as a major issue
as for the lames,lament. i am a lame of one but belong to a brotherhood of many,some have big cohonos some dont.and unless you are prepared to fight and i mean really fight, not just talk tough at meetings and go home to hand the trousers to your wife type hero. beware the path you may wish to tread.united we stand devided we fall.what its gonna be ?

[another superlame]

Talking about EBA. Why is QF waiting until the last minute to name the people for the first A380 course. I bet they still have JHAS in the wings waiting for the EBA vote to come thru. They have aircraft arriving in 6 months and they are still bickering about training. This EBA is still hanging the A380 on the EBA decision. If it doesn't get through the A380 will stay in Australia and in Sydney but with non QF LAMEs. I am sure they dont want their latest and greatest to be held hostage to the EBA.

[Insider Trader]

It's all getting rather messy

Firstly, chemical al(l)i, my eyes are hurting from reading whatever it was that you posted, to which i have no idea as to what it is. Poor spelling, lack of punctuation and use of capitals - I'm glad i do not have to read your tech log entries!

To the issue at hand. As predictable as night follwing day, the ALAEA membership has turned on itself, with the old "what's in it for me?" mentality once again alive and well. A couple of falacies should be corrected at this stage.

1) The ALAEA membership DID vote for the current LAME pay scale.

2) The ALAEA membership DID vote to 'grandfather' the 15% day shift penalty loading.

Also, the reality is that the grouping of A/F & AVI LAMEs in its current scope will also be 'grandfathered' with the new EASA system. It will be the function of the B1 category holder to provide the day to day line station duties of getting the aircraft back to service. B2 holders will play a different role in the new system, with more a Base Maintenance / Heavy Maintenance function. On top of that, the Human Factors instrument in the new EASA regs will require a re-structuring of the way maintenance is carried out, especially on night shift, which may mean utilising B1 and B2 licences in different ways.

Rostering flexibilty will become a reality right thru the industry, with single line rosters a very viable option as 'New Gen' aircraft come on line. To be so dismissive of roster flexibility is at the peril of your long term viability as a competitive MRO.

The reality is that the company offer is a very competitive one in the current wage environment. Your inability to agree amongst yourselves as to what it is you are fighting for is increasingly frustrating for both the membership who want to move forward, as it is for the company who are looking to secure the future of maintenance of QF onshore.

Ladies and gentlemen, time stands still for no one. Blink, and you may just miss out.

[Big Unit]

Nice post Murray/Dave. Thanks once again for your valued input.

It will be the function of the B1 category holder to provide the day to day line station duties

Remember - Avionic MEL's dont go on forever. At some stage they must be fixed.

[Konehead]

Reply to insider trader

To the issue at hand. As predictable as night follwing day, the ALAEA membership has turned on itself, with the old "what's in it for me?" mentality once again alive and well.

So now you're a mind-reader! The info meetings revealed an overwhelming majority of LAMEs expressing they'll vote NO - estimated at 75%. You may say that mob mentality prevents the meek from expressing positive sentiments. However when the union requested confidential feedback from individuals in order to get a more candid response from the troops, the emails, faxes and phone calls to the Bexley Bunker started off pretty positive. But as people became aware of the booby-traps, the emails turned negative - now in total they closely reflect the 75% NO sentiment expressed in the meetings. People made those comments directly to the union, with no fear of being monstered by the mob. What's that tell you?
There has been an uncharacteristic outbreak of altruism among the LAMEs. They don't want to vote on someone elses roster, they want to see every LAME get a payrise beyond the 3% - not a minority or even a majority, but all of us.

A couple of falacies should be corrected at this stage.
1) The ALAEA membership DID vote for the current LAME pay scale.
2) The ALAEA membership DID vote to 'grandfather' the 15% day shift penalty loading.

This vote got up by 11 votes, with a large number of LAMEs not voting (morons who afterwards said "Gee if I thought it would get up by such a small margin I would have voted against it"). Then there are all the LAMEs who were AMEs at the time who have been shafted by that vote. And alot of those "grandfathers" have taken the redundancy money and ran. So I can safely say that if the vote was cast again today, that deal would never have gotten up. It would never have gotten up if EVERY LAME had voted at the time either.

Poor spelling, lack of punctuation and use of capitals

falacies

It's FALLACIES. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

It will be the function of the B1 category holder to provide the day to day line station duties of getting the aircraft back to service.

Spoken like one who hasn't actually worked as a LAME at a terminal. Or someone who has little understanding of the B1/B2 structure. B1 are airframe, engine and electrical. B2 are instrument and radio. Following your plan, who is going to sign for the instrument and radio defects and MELs? And at the risk of offending the mechanical brothers, you don't suddenly replace decades of experience rectifying electrical category faults by throwing a B1 license and an "Avionics Fundamentals" course at them.
As for grandfathering, CASA doesn't even know how they are going to manage it yet, so I think you're speaking a little prematurely.

The reality is that the company offer is a very competitive one in the current wage environment.

The reality is that groceries, mortgages, credit card bills, petrol, average wages, etc have gone up faster than LAMEs wages. The reality is, according to the RBA, that fat management bonuses are a contributing factor to inflation. The reality is, most LAMEs have had a gutful of the greed and hypocrisy of management. Managing is about LEADING. If you're not going to lead by example and tone down the bonuses, don't expect the workforce to moderate their wage claims.

Your inability to agree amongst yourselves as to what it is you are fighting for is increasingly frustrating for both the membership who want to move forward,

1. There is more agreement among the LAMEs than I have ever seen.
2. There is more fear in the eyes of management than I have ever seen.
3. the membership who want to move forward are the few who'd sell their colleagues, mothers and families down the creek.

[Millet Fanger]

Another superlame, great campaign for the EBA "NO" case.

This EBA is still hanging the A380 on the EBA decision.

Do you mean, if the EBA gets voted down LAMEA380 (Sobast) won't get a course? I need no more persuading!

[Sunfish]

Game, set and match to Konehead. What a concise and well thought out response to Mr. Trader.

[Short_Circuit]

Ditto

what Konehead said

[another superlame]

Do the Federal Executive of the association still have the power to veto a majority vote if they don't agree with it? They have done it before in Avalon just so they looked like to the good guys to QF management. You better hope they listen to what the masses want and work for you rather than do what they damn well please and accept this EBA on your behalf when you may or may not vote for it.

[Clipped]

Is it just me or is there a deafening silence from both the Ass'n and the Co with their info/lobbying efforts.

I've received very little info, in any format, from both sides over the last couple of weeks.

Wondering why either would strategise as such, either being subdued or failing to build momentum.

What's going on?

[Konehead]

Questions answered?

From the latest ALAEA Notice:
"Members from not only Heavy Maintenance raised this issue (Heavy Maintenance efficiencies) which the ALAEA views as a positive shift in membership concern when LAMEs are collectively thinking of the rights and conditions of fellow workers in other locations."

Insider Trader, Johnny V and all the other trolls and stooges - are you listening? Altruism? Didn't I hear someone say "ALTRUISM"? Oh that's right it was me...

From the latest edition of eTorque:
"The ALAEA advised Qantas last week that a formal vote at this stage would likely see a rejected result. The parties are now looking at solutions that would address the concerns raised at the EBA meetings."

Read: "we're trying to wring more blood from the stone."

GO YOU GOOD THING!