Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: Dec 2000
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wow, another 3%.... whoohooo. 
inflation is at 4%. 
BAE engineers have earned 4.5% every year for the past 5 yrs. not to mention a performance bonus of between $4 and $5K
inflation is at 4%. BAE engineers have earned 4.5% every year for the past 5 yrs. not to mention a performance bonus of between $4 and $5K
Last edited by Ultralights; 5th Feb 2008 at 05:30.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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The ALAEA is once again gutless and spineless and hasn't listened to their members. They have gone to the table with what they want and not what the members asked for.
As usual the heavy maintenance areas will be screwed by the numbers of ACS. So hopefully they can stand up and fight.
As usual the heavy maintenance areas will be screwed by the numbers of ACS. So hopefully they can stand up and fight.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Geez...... seems the ALAEA have backed down without a fight. How disappointing.
What ever happened to 5%?
Just remember, the MEMBERSHIP still has the final say. Tell them to stick it!
What ever happened to 5%?
Just remember, the MEMBERSHIP still has the final say. Tell them to stick it!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Onshore Vs in-house
Good question, as far as the A380 goes JHAS didn't get it, so it remains in-house with QF.
Although JH is doing some overflow 767 and 737 work for QF.
Cheers
Although JH is doing some overflow 767 and 737 work for QF.
Cheers
Once again its the companies initial offer of rediculous terms and conditions that gets everyone's back up, they spend months and months negotiating and finally, after all is said and done, 3% plus a few sweeteners that benefit people who are already earning good money.
The lowly LAME level 3's, 4's, 5's and 6's are the ones likely to be in the company less then 10 years, so the staff travel benefit does nothing for them, like it was a big deal anyway.
Fuel tank allowance, most higher level LAME's are too fat or old and immobile to get in the tanks anyway, so there is a very, very slight benefit for breathing in hydrocarbons in your day to day job should you be so lucky to get that job.
Level 9 free for life ? well that will do me well in about 20 years time.
1 service point ? what a joke.
and to top it all off
A 4 year agreement, Qantas management once again gets away with giving out a pay rise less then the rate of inflation, and gets to lock it in for 4 more years.
So basically, its looking after those at the top, again, gives the guys at the bottom 2/5th's of not a lot, and the ALAEA are recommending we vote yes ?
Watch the AME's and apprentices leave in droves in the coming years to places like VB, JHAS, GA even has outstripped Qantas rates of pay.
The lowly LAME level 3's, 4's, 5's and 6's are the ones likely to be in the company less then 10 years, so the staff travel benefit does nothing for them, like it was a big deal anyway.
Fuel tank allowance, most higher level LAME's are too fat or old and immobile to get in the tanks anyway, so there is a very, very slight benefit for breathing in hydrocarbons in your day to day job should you be so lucky to get that job.
Level 9 free for life ? well that will do me well in about 20 years time.
1 service point ? what a joke.
and to top it all off
A 4 year agreement, Qantas management once again gets away with giving out a pay rise less then the rate of inflation, and gets to lock it in for 4 more years.
So basically, its looking after those at the top, again, gives the guys at the bottom 2/5th's of not a lot, and the ALAEA are recommending we vote yes ?
Watch the AME's and apprentices leave in droves in the coming years to places like VB, JHAS, GA even has outstripped Qantas rates of pay.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Is it just me, or do we need to look past the 3% base rate increase?
The 3% figure is a face-saving one for Qantas. There's an extra 1% super contribution from Qantas to added on to this. As well as service point, allowance increases etc.
I realize giving Qantas a kick in the guts through P.I.A. will make everybody feel a little better, I'm just not sure that under the current industrial relations laws, that such action will result in a better offer at this point in time.
I for one believe that Qantas management are that bloody minded, that they would offshore the majority of H/maint and possibly a great deal of ACS, in order to save face rather than cave in to P.I.A. I know that would stuff the organisation but, most of these guys wouldn't be around to have to clean up the mess.
I think everybody should wait and read the final document, and then let cooler heads prevail. The next round of EBA negotiations will hopefully be held in a far more friendly industrial relations environment than the current one inherited from the Howard government. Perhaps then we can inch further toward a more reasonable and respectable outcome.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong but, my inclination as a LAME on the job, and with this latest agreemant hammered out over 13 months, is that we should play it safe.
The 3% figure is a face-saving one for Qantas. There's an extra 1% super contribution from Qantas to added on to this. As well as service point, allowance increases etc.
I realize giving Qantas a kick in the guts through P.I.A. will make everybody feel a little better, I'm just not sure that under the current industrial relations laws, that such action will result in a better offer at this point in time.
I for one believe that Qantas management are that bloody minded, that they would offshore the majority of H/maint and possibly a great deal of ACS, in order to save face rather than cave in to P.I.A. I know that would stuff the organisation but, most of these guys wouldn't be around to have to clean up the mess.
I think everybody should wait and read the final document, and then let cooler heads prevail. The next round of EBA negotiations will hopefully be held in a far more friendly industrial relations environment than the current one inherited from the Howard government. Perhaps then we can inch further toward a more reasonable and respectable outcome.
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong but, my inclination as a LAME on the job, and with this latest agreemant hammered out over 13 months, is that we should play it safe.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by chockchucker
Maybe I'm reading it all wrong but, my inclination as a LAME on the job, and with this latest agreemant hammered out over 13 months, is that we should play it safe.
We were presented a "Ra Ra....We will change the corruption and secret deal that exists in the executive" ...."We won't be pushed around" We will take to the spineless QF Management" ra ra ra ....
Guess what? The tail is between there legs, they've greased the palm of the quota held avionic Lame's on the office and say sorry guys, "this is as good as it gets.....3% with some cream for senior ACS members who are quota held.....but we did our best"
Why did everything go so quiet after the last month???? ACTU? GD? Secret Mens business?
This is the best time to fight. Don't go for an arm and a leg JUST STAY WITH INFLATION AT THE VERY LEAST. I say fight for 5% and I don't care if there is 10% of us left. We will get employment while the Australian economy remains buoyant on the back of a steel hungry China. Make it equal for all. Unionism is based on equality and fairness and not an unbalanced agreement that favours a few such as the one presented today.
I say fight, and fight now. Forget the roadshow cause there will be a bit of roadkill lying around.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I get the desire to kick the company in the nuts and ask for 5% Panther but, what comes after you've intiated the action? Starting a fight is easy, finishing it off and winning is a lot harder. Especially against a very well financed bully like Qantas.
You might be happy to sacrifice all but 10% of the LAME jobs at Qantas however, there are more than a few out there with mortgages and kids to feed and put through school.
I just don't think that you've taken into account all the implications of such actions. As I say, it might make us feel better for a little while but under the current environment I just don't see it producing a better outcome. And be prepared for a lot of what is on the table now to be removed.
Careful and coolheaded consideration is what is required here.
Oh, and yes my testicles have dropped. I just prefer not to end up castrated.
You might be happy to sacrifice all but 10% of the LAME jobs at Qantas however, there are more than a few out there with mortgages and kids to feed and put through school.
I just don't think that you've taken into account all the implications of such actions. As I say, it might make us feel better for a little while but under the current environment I just don't see it producing a better outcome. And be prepared for a lot of what is on the table now to be removed.
Careful and coolheaded consideration is what is required here.
Oh, and yes my testicles have dropped. I just prefer not to end up castrated.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Reject this EBA
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How can 3% in the hand keep up with inflation. Thanks for 1% super will help heaps when I retire in 3099, how am I to pay my mortgage etc in the mean time?
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How can 3% in the hand keep up with inflation. Thanks for 1% super will help heaps when I retire in 3099, how am I to pay my mortgage etc in the mean time?
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Reject this EBA
Reject this EBA
Reject this EBA
How can 3% in the hand keep up with inflation. Thanks for 1% super will help heaps when I retire in 3099, how am I to pay my mortgage etc in the mean time?
Reject
Reject
Reject
Reject this EBA
Reject this EBA
How can 3% in the hand keep up with inflation. Thanks for 1% super will help heaps when I retire in 3099, how am I to pay my mortgage etc in the mean time?
Reject
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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Seems like a very poor outcome.
The FAAA managed massive recruitment in their EBA, inclusion of long service entitlements into their EBA, a $3000 sign on bonus etc and they didn't even have to threaten industrial action.
I guess it's a case of a very inexperienced leadership that unresonably raised expectations , like a 5% wage claim and then fell flat on its face.
The FAAA managed massive recruitment in their EBA, inclusion of long service entitlements into their EBA, a $3000 sign on bonus etc and they didn't even have to threaten industrial action.
I guess it's a case of a very inexperienced leadership that unresonably raised expectations , like a 5% wage claim and then fell flat on its face.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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12th February: ALAEA membership reject EBA offer.
13th February: Qantas immediately pulls backpay from any future agreement
Leave cancelled.
Qantas PR machine starts to paint LAMEs as greedy and unprofessional employees.
ALAEA gain support from Channel 7 and ABC.
The media war begins.
15th February: ALAEA have no choice but to advise Qantas of protected industrial action.
19th February: PIA begins.
Qantas scabs move in.
ALAEA use the ACS system of maintenance as there main weapon.
Delays increases within 24hrs. Scabs have little effect due to the vastness of aircraft and locations.
Internals scabs within break overtime bans and in fighting begins within the ALAEA.
20th February: Scabs having little effect on overtime and secondment bans.
Aircraft now delayed from A check's. Other major checks also likely to be delayed.
Qantas gets tough and stands down 3 LAME's.
Membership walks off jobs for 4 hours.
QANTAS deducts pay.
ALAEA have numerous AIRC meetings with Qantas.
ALAEA funds getting low.
24th February: Qantas network now approaching total disarray with aircraft having major delay due maintenance problems in three overseas locations.
QANTAS appeals to the government. No joy.
Stop work meetings during peak time having major disruptions.
Public start to side with Qantas.
27th February: Scabs failing to stop the leaks. Public getting very very pis#ed off.
ACS system of maintenance stills causing major heads for QF Engineering.
QF management helpless as engineers use there own creation as the main weapon.
28th February: Labor government get involved to bring parties together.
29th February: Emergency meetings called with GD and ALAEA.
3 LAMES reinstated.
1st March: Resolution obtained 5% for 3 years, 3% backpay reinstated for previous 12mths. Minor additions but no change to quotas
and agreement is very fair for all grades.
2nd March PAI dissolved until outcome of vote.
9th March: Membership accepts new deal .
10th March: ALAEA is battered, funds low but union spirit is strong however memebership numbers decreases and internal scabs bail and 2 groups exists at Qantas, union and non-union.
A bad relationship with QF Management lives on.
JHAS assists QF to get backlog of aircraft serviceable and a support relationship begins with JHAS working in hand with ALAEA and QANTAS for overflow work.
13th February: Qantas immediately pulls backpay from any future agreement
Leave cancelled.
Qantas PR machine starts to paint LAMEs as greedy and unprofessional employees.
ALAEA gain support from Channel 7 and ABC.
The media war begins.
15th February: ALAEA have no choice but to advise Qantas of protected industrial action.
19th February: PIA begins.
Qantas scabs move in.
ALAEA use the ACS system of maintenance as there main weapon.
Delays increases within 24hrs. Scabs have little effect due to the vastness of aircraft and locations.
Internals scabs within break overtime bans and in fighting begins within the ALAEA.
20th February: Scabs having little effect on overtime and secondment bans.
Aircraft now delayed from A check's. Other major checks also likely to be delayed.
Qantas gets tough and stands down 3 LAME's.
Membership walks off jobs for 4 hours.
QANTAS deducts pay.
ALAEA have numerous AIRC meetings with Qantas.
ALAEA funds getting low.
24th February: Qantas network now approaching total disarray with aircraft having major delay due maintenance problems in three overseas locations.
QANTAS appeals to the government. No joy.
Stop work meetings during peak time having major disruptions.
Public start to side with Qantas.
27th February: Scabs failing to stop the leaks. Public getting very very pis#ed off.
ACS system of maintenance stills causing major heads for QF Engineering.
QF management helpless as engineers use there own creation as the main weapon.
28th February: Labor government get involved to bring parties together.
29th February: Emergency meetings called with GD and ALAEA.
3 LAMES reinstated.
1st March: Resolution obtained 5% for 3 years, 3% backpay reinstated for previous 12mths. Minor additions but no change to quotas
and agreement is very fair for all grades.
2nd March PAI dissolved until outcome of vote.
9th March: Membership accepts new deal .
10th March: ALAEA is battered, funds low but union spirit is strong however memebership numbers decreases and internal scabs bail and 2 groups exists at Qantas, union and non-union.
A bad relationship with QF Management lives on.
JHAS assists QF to get backlog of aircraft serviceable and a support relationship begins with JHAS working in hand with ALAEA and QANTAS for overflow work.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Qantas has play you lot like a fiddle,stick in this XPT clause,some sh!t here and there,offer 3% then at the last minute remove the ambit claims with 3% to remain,ha presto your all a bunch of winners,same old script and you people have fallen for it hook line and sinker,this has been going on for the last 10 yrs
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I don't know Satos. 3% + 1% super. Not to mention some of the other fiddles. I agree, it's not a home run victory but, we live to fight another day. A day when our negotiating team isn't hamstrung by work choices.
Like I said in another thread, sometimes these changes can only occur a little bit at a time. I too would have prefered 5% but, better to have what is on offer than to see the H/Maint brothers outsourced/sold up an asian river someplace. It isn't perfect but, rarely is any negotiated outcome between two parties who can't stand each other.
Only my opinion.
what the hell are you talking about our brothers in Syd HM are gone,get a grip fool,they are playing as again,this is Sh!t
Like I said in another thread, sometimes these changes can only occur a little bit at a time. I too would have prefered 5% but, better to have what is on offer than to see the H/Maint brothers outsourced/sold up an asian river someplace. It isn't perfect but, rarely is any negotiated outcome between two parties who can't stand each other.
Only my opinion.
what the hell are you talking about our brothers in Syd HM are gone,get a grip fool,they are playing as again,this is Sh!t
Join Date: Dec 2002
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You make some interesting assumptions with your nostradamus like prediction of what P.I.A. would look like Panther. Especially that part about the Labour govt basically coming to our rescue.
My only response to that would be, "What is past is prologue". Just ask any old pilot what the Labour govt (headed by a former ACTU secretary) did for them in 1989.
Believe it or not, I don't like it any more than you do. I just cannot see a better outcome, as lousy as it may be, at this particular point in time.
Like I said before, better we live to fight another day when we have more of an advantage going our way i.e. no workchoices legislation.
EP. Our brothers in Tulla, Brisbane, and yes, Avalon could all still be made to walk the plank if we don't play our cards right. I just think you're advocating playing Russian Roulette with a lot of other peoples jobs.
My only response to that would be, "What is past is prologue". Just ask any old pilot what the Labour govt (headed by a former ACTU secretary) did for them in 1989.
Believe it or not, I don't like it any more than you do. I just cannot see a better outcome, as lousy as it may be, at this particular point in time.
Like I said before, better we live to fight another day when we have more of an advantage going our way i.e. no workchoices legislation.
EP. Our brothers in Tulla, Brisbane, and yes, Avalon could all still be made to walk the plank if we don't play our cards right. I just think you're advocating playing Russian Roulette with a lot of other peoples jobs.