Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney
Age: 54
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this is now 2 eba's where any new LAME's that come along get less than the ones that are there,1st was the increase in a grade for embracing new technology,now this the ASSC is not looking after the trade only the old farts that are there,you will never get new blood into the trade when the pay is so sh!thouse.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Your Vote Counts! Your voice is important!
Current PIA is OK until 16th Feb.
The game is far from over, nor lost.
YES Vote, think about it
0-20% Great outcome for action if they are educated! Highly unexpected result, membership confident and really pissed off to an unprecedented level. Their strength not realised by the Exec but I'm sure they would be happy to see the result!
20-49% If you voted yes you better support the no vote or a lesser deal will be likely! The membership failed to show the exec confidence with their actions!
51% Great outcome for the company, membership not well represented
50-65% You voted for it don't whine you get what you deserve, actions speak louder than words!
75% Both company and asn settled well
100% Company gave too much, white wash ALAEA had no competition
You have feed back meeting until then, you best make it loud and clear what is your MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE DEAL.
If the vote goes down, the ASN must know what YOU WILL DIE IN A DITCH OVER.
To those who work any OT especially on the FART crew which undermines any industrial pressure applied your ignorance for an intelligent person is astounding!
For those who do above, but expect your membership fees to win your payrise, whilst you undermine said pressure, YOU ARE IDIOTS.
For those who are glad they did OT now, cause after they weakened any ethical and moral stance, now there is nothing in it for them, do you realise what you just said and did? Tell me how do you ever expect to do better?
To those that idly standby watching these ignorant, selfish p#&%ks carry on, your inaction and condoning does not help, you should probably make there visit less enjoyable! Have a C%$t chair available for them to sit in the smoko room!
If the outcome suceeds, now more people HAVE to do OT just to get by. But at least there is one consolation, more people NEEDING OT now, less for those selfish, ignorant idiots now they have to share (ps I didn't say it was a big consolation)
For these stupid lads less time with their families is probably a win, and less chance to get bitten by their dog who does not recognise them.
The game is far from over, nor lost.
YES Vote, think about it
0-20% Great outcome for action if they are educated! Highly unexpected result, membership confident and really pissed off to an unprecedented level. Their strength not realised by the Exec but I'm sure they would be happy to see the result!
20-49% If you voted yes you better support the no vote or a lesser deal will be likely! The membership failed to show the exec confidence with their actions!
51% Great outcome for the company, membership not well represented
50-65% You voted for it don't whine you get what you deserve, actions speak louder than words!
75% Both company and asn settled well
100% Company gave too much, white wash ALAEA had no competition
You have feed back meeting until then, you best make it loud and clear what is your MINIMUM ACCEPTABLE DEAL.
If the vote goes down, the ASN must know what YOU WILL DIE IN A DITCH OVER.
To those who work any OT especially on the FART crew which undermines any industrial pressure applied your ignorance for an intelligent person is astounding!
For those who do above, but expect your membership fees to win your payrise, whilst you undermine said pressure, YOU ARE IDIOTS.
For those who are glad they did OT now, cause after they weakened any ethical and moral stance, now there is nothing in it for them, do you realise what you just said and did? Tell me how do you ever expect to do better?
To those that idly standby watching these ignorant, selfish p#&%ks carry on, your inaction and condoning does not help, you should probably make there visit less enjoyable! Have a C%$t chair available for them to sit in the smoko room!
If the outcome suceeds, now more people HAVE to do OT just to get by. But at least there is one consolation, more people NEEDING OT now, less for those selfish, ignorant idiots now they have to share (ps I didn't say it was a big consolation)
For these stupid lads less time with their families is probably a win, and less chance to get bitten by their dog who does not recognise them.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orstralya
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Sorry Rudderless1,
my info says that the ALAEA withdrew its application for P.I.A. Hence the reason people in my area can now get leave approved, and also the reason that there is now an in-principle agreement.
If the association wants to start P.I.A., the whole process through the AIRC commissioner has to start again. This time of course, any application for P.I.A. may well be denied.
As crappy an outcome as this may be, I think all the P.I.A. hawks out there will have to accept that it's check-mate to the company for now. Better to re-group and live to fight another day.
Otherwise, I think you'll find the walls are getting harder whilst your heads are getting softer.
my info says that the ALAEA withdrew its application for P.I.A. Hence the reason people in my area can now get leave approved, and also the reason that there is now an in-principle agreement.
If the association wants to start P.I.A., the whole process through the AIRC commissioner has to start again. This time of course, any application for P.I.A. may well be denied.
As crappy an outcome as this may be, I think all the P.I.A. hawks out there will have to accept that it's check-mate to the company for now. Better to re-group and live to fight another day.
Otherwise, I think you'll find the walls are getting harder whilst your heads are getting softer.
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Chockchucker
Check your info, you are incorrect, PIA is still available until around the 20th of Feb without a further visit to the commission!
Make it clear what you "really" want if you are not satisfied!
Check your info, you are incorrect, PIA is still available until around the 20th of Feb without a further visit to the commission!
Make it clear what you "really" want if you are not satisfied!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orstralya
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Rudderless,
be that, as it may, I notice that the ALAEA report back/ info sessions run all the way from now untill the 20th.
I don't believe that, no matter what feedback the ALAEA executive receive at these meetings, that they will have the time or ability to submit notice for P.I.A. within the timeframe required.
Even if your info is correct, I think we've been out-flanked and out-gunned this time around
be that, as it may, I notice that the ALAEA report back/ info sessions run all the way from now untill the 20th.
I don't believe that, no matter what feedback the ALAEA executive receive at these meetings, that they will have the time or ability to submit notice for P.I.A. within the timeframe required.
Even if your info is correct, I think we've been out-flanked and out-gunned this time around
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: australia
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after reading the alaea notice regarding meetings, i am shocked that the exec has vetoed any and all passing of motions,this tactic is so much like the exec of old that i am appalled.i feel even more violated this time around. the call to war meeting held at the rowers,that turned into a we cant tell you the outcome because the board hasnt approved it was pitiful.now we are going to have feedback meetings with no voice from the members.once again who is the alaea?we the members or the exec.
only one question now remains to be asked, if the in principle agreement is voted down what exactly will the exec do next?
pia should have started and continued up until an informal vote of the membership, on whether the deal was even worthy to put to a vote.
to the alaea exec, you were given the keys to the toy box,but now it looks as if you have picked up your bat and ball and gone home early.
only one question now remains to be asked, if the in principle agreement is voted down what exactly will the exec do next?
pia should have started and continued up until an informal vote of the membership, on whether the deal was even worthy to put to a vote.
to the alaea exec, you were given the keys to the toy box,but now it looks as if you have picked up your bat and ball and gone home early.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sydney
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If you went back through the last 7 EBA's employees perspective you will find that it has been a lot more than the last 2 that new starters have been disadvantaged.
Lets hope we can pull back on this because the day shift penalities we sold out for post 98 starters we will find is soon to be on the block, with the majority now post 98. I am sure they are willing to sell it off for say 1 training point, hell they stand to gain!
Rudderless the smart people doing the FART crew on O/T can do more damage than good. The ALAEA has made it clear that O/T is now OK to do, if you want to start a personal crusade keep it just that! Don't divide the workforce unite them, that how you scare the **** out of the company.
Lets hope we can pull back on this because the day shift penalities we sold out for post 98 starters we will find is soon to be on the block, with the majority now post 98. I am sure they are willing to sell it off for say 1 training point, hell they stand to gain!
Rudderless the smart people doing the FART crew on O/T can do more damage than good. The ALAEA has made it clear that O/T is now OK to do, if you want to start a personal crusade keep it just that! Don't divide the workforce unite them, that how you scare the **** out of the company.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
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Interesting ALAEA info meeting today.
I learned there's a difference between 'endorse' and 'recommend'. What a relief!
I learned that it's a little hard to have an info meeting when there isn't enough info.
I learned the company has not failed to once again delay and obfuscate, this time with accurate info on the levels.
I learned that the mood was pretty negative in Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide. What's the general feeling elsewhere?
I learned that there are some people on the executive we can be proud of - switched on, calm, collected, knowledgeable, expressive; that we quite possibly can trust them with our best interests, contrary to some posts here.
I learned that the application for PIA is still an option right up till 20th Feb, and if needs be, the ALAEA can just re-apply and has a good chance of having it approved...
SO FIRE UP AND VOTE NO!!!
I learned there's a difference between 'endorse' and 'recommend'. What a relief!
I learned that it's a little hard to have an info meeting when there isn't enough info.
I learned the company has not failed to once again delay and obfuscate, this time with accurate info on the levels.
I learned that the mood was pretty negative in Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide. What's the general feeling elsewhere?
I learned that there are some people on the executive we can be proud of - switched on, calm, collected, knowledgeable, expressive; that we quite possibly can trust them with our best interests, contrary to some posts here.
I learned that the application for PIA is still an option right up till 20th Feb, and if needs be, the ALAEA can just re-apply and has a good chance of having it approved...
SO FIRE UP AND VOTE NO!!!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: adelaide
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What do I want?
What do I want?
I want openness and fairness in dealings from both sides of the table
I want a real payrise
I want to be happy going to work
I want to trust my fellow worker will do the right thing for the common good
I want to be part of a winning team
I want to be proud to work for QANTAS again
I want QANTAS to beat the living cr@p out of the competition
I want to be recognised for over and above performance
I want management that i trust and respect
I want to help make this happen
I don't want to give up hard won and fought conditions by our
predecessors, unless they are irrelavant
I don't want to put up with the bullsh1t that is infesting my workplace
I don't want to apologise anymore
I don't want to be second billing to Jetstar anymore
I don't want to see QANTAS's standards lowered
I don't want to see a hull loss
I don't want our external contracts to go elsewhere
I am willing to work smarter
I am willing to be more flexible
I am willing to make assisting suggestions
I am willing to help a new management team make this fairytale come true
I believe the current QE management team are not trustworthy
I believe the current QE management team are incompetent
I believe QE would be better off without the incumbent management team
I believe a better performing and happier QE is possible, just not under DC or MH
I believe we can rebuild
I want openness and fairness in dealings from both sides of the table
I want a real payrise
I want to be happy going to work
I want to trust my fellow worker will do the right thing for the common good
I want to be part of a winning team
I want to be proud to work for QANTAS again
I want QANTAS to beat the living cr@p out of the competition
I want to be recognised for over and above performance
I want management that i trust and respect
I want to help make this happen
I don't want to give up hard won and fought conditions by our
predecessors, unless they are irrelavant
I don't want to put up with the bullsh1t that is infesting my workplace
I don't want to apologise anymore
I don't want to be second billing to Jetstar anymore
I don't want to see QANTAS's standards lowered
I don't want to see a hull loss
I don't want our external contracts to go elsewhere
I am willing to work smarter
I am willing to be more flexible
I am willing to make assisting suggestions
I am willing to help a new management team make this fairytale come true
I believe the current QE management team are not trustworthy
I believe the current QE management team are incompetent
I believe QE would be better off without the incumbent management team
I believe a better performing and happier QE is possible, just not under DC or MH
I believe we can rebuild
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Insider Trader said :-
While I may not agree with the rest of his post, I believe what he stated above is on the mark.
There is nothing other than the 3% over 4 years in this EBA for me. The pre tax super contributions looks nice but can effect how your super is taxed later. I can't see how this made it into the EBA as a carrot
The extra point ?
The alaea FEDEX by agreeing to this is saying everyone over level 8 (edit-level9) is over paid. Why not a point for everyone?
The staff travel upgrade status. Quite often when you travel you will find as a LAME you have the highest upgrade status but lowest "onload" status. If you get on you will get a big seat but you have to get on. Waste of time !
I will vote NO.
We stood up to be counted and buckled like a belt, I feel almost dirty to be associated with the ALAEA. Previous FEDEX looked corrupt or duplicit with company management now we just look stupid.
The QF LAMEs blinked, and the company won in the battle of EBA 8. You allowed a symbolic meeting with G Dixon, and a subsequent 'in principle' agreement to cloud your judgement, inflating your egos because you had an audience with the CEO. You fell for the oldest trick in the book, and allowed the intimidation of the CEO to fool you into thinking that you walked away the winners, when in fact you walked away with less than what you came for. It is clear that the company does not rate you with the same volume of importance that you guys rate yourselves. And whose fault is that ?
There is nothing other than the 3% over 4 years in this EBA for me. The pre tax super contributions looks nice but can effect how your super is taxed later. I can't see how this made it into the EBA as a carrot
The extra point ?
The alaea FEDEX by agreeing to this is saying everyone over level 8 (edit-level9) is over paid. Why not a point for everyone?
The staff travel upgrade status. Quite often when you travel you will find as a LAME you have the highest upgrade status but lowest "onload" status. If you get on you will get a big seat but you have to get on. Waste of time !
I will vote NO.
We stood up to be counted and buckled like a belt, I feel almost dirty to be associated with the ALAEA. Previous FEDEX looked corrupt or duplicit with company management now we just look stupid.
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 12th Feb 2008 at 21:08.
Join Date: Feb 2005
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The extra point ?
The alaea FEDEX by agreeing to this is saying everyone over level 8 is over paid. Why not a point for everyone?
The alaea FEDEX by agreeing to this is saying everyone over level 8 is over paid. Why not a point for everyone?
Is the glass half full or half empty?
Apart from the money what else is there?
Have your working conditions changed?
Is your job more secure?
Do you want 5% in the level you are in now and stay in it for ever, capped in a quota system you voted for?
If this offer wasn't presented to us what would be the reaction from the floor when we are all out the door and the company publishes this offer? They offered us what and we weren't told!
I think the exec has done the right thing by putting the offer out there. As a previous post put it there is a difference between "recommend" and "endorse".
They recommend we vote on it. They don't necessarily endorse it. Vote how you feel. Back it up with actions.
By the way I don't think there is enough in it for the lower grades and the new comers. I quite frankly I think the majority of the whinging is coming from level 11,12 and 13 avionic lames that have been spoon fed company courses for years.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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PIA is back on boys.
It appears, now the black & white hard copy of the QF offer
has been read, it has been fiddled and we are being screwed
big time once again. (surprise, surprise, surprise)
Those IR morons just can't help sticking their finger
in the pie, and they pulled out the plum (conditions).
No more second chances, bring it on.. TODAY....
It appears, now the black & white hard copy of the QF offer
has been read, it has been fiddled and we are being screwed
big time once again. (surprise, surprise, surprise)
Those IR morons just can't help sticking their finger
in the pie, and they pulled out the plum (conditions).
No more second chances, bring it on.. TODAY....
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I heard three things were removed: EBA dispute resolution, Cert IV trainer payment and one other, which escapes me for the moment. Granted that this is a rumour network, and what I heard was third hand info, the rumour I heard is that the EBA is off due to the fiddle previously mentioned. Anyone heard anything?
Join Date: Dec 2002
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As of 22:30 last night at the ALAEA report back meeting in Melbourne last night, no such fiddles by the company were able to be confirmed. We'll just have to wait untill the final document is before us prior to making any judgements me thinks.
Let's allow cool heads to prevail. No need to get all wound up over rumour and gossip at this stage. Wait and see the facts as presented in the document to be voted on.
Having said all that, and as a slight side issue, a straw pole taken at last nights meeting would suggest that the proposed agreement (even without company fiddles) will struggle to make it over the line. What's the feeling around the rest of the country?
Let's allow cool heads to prevail. No need to get all wound up over rumour and gossip at this stage. Wait and see the facts as presented in the document to be voted on.
Having said all that, and as a slight side issue, a straw pole taken at last nights meeting would suggest that the proposed agreement (even without company fiddles) will struggle to make it over the line. What's the feeling around the rest of the country?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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nice rumor put out by the company,get ever one wound up then put the actual offer out(with no changes) making you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside knowing you got what the ALAEA negotiated( a SH!T sandwich),then you spineless lot vote it up
Join Date: Dec 2007
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nice rumor put out by the company,get ever one wound up then put the actual offer out(with no changes) making you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside knowing you got what the ALAEA negotiated( a SH!T sandwich),
On another related subject, I cannot believe that the company doesnt know down to the dollar what it is paying each LAME and what that LAME is due. Typical delay tactics from QF, either that or rank incompetence, to take SO LONG to sort out who is rightfully on what level with what service/training points. After all, you'd think they'd be full bottle on this info BEFORE they entered into EBA negotiations! To expect us to believe they didn't/don't is a stretch.
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I hope you comrades stick together and vote no.....that would be the best outcome, that way this would be the trigger to clean the lot of you out once and for all.
Wouldnt that be fun, to see the lot of you accept an inferior offer in a couple of months, i say bring it on, go to war , you guys will really really get what you deserve.
Come on comrades, you know you can do it , vote NO
Wouldnt that be fun, to see the lot of you accept an inferior offer in a couple of months, i say bring it on, go to war , you guys will really really get what you deserve.
Come on comrades, you know you can do it , vote NO
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Bidding for our own work is exactly what is wrong with QE at the moment.Do you imagine Lufthansa or Singapore "bidding" to work on their flagship aeroplanes?
What a load of ****e.
Imagine what the perception is!
Qantas always second fiddle,Almost but not quite?2nd tier airline?What a pity they couldn't get it togetherWhat next?
Flight ops "bidding" to operate the 787?Cabin crew "Bidding" to fly the A380?Time to change tack.Sack the incumbent managers
Get leaders who inspire people to greatness, not play childish games and act petulantly when things don't go their way.I mean really,
What is the mental age of MH and DC?
possibly 2 or 3 ?