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-   -   Is Ukraine about to have a war? (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/639666-ukraine-about-have-war.html)

fdr 11th Sep 2022 21:24


Originally Posted by albatross (Post 11294789)
When I see the destruction of myriad ammunition depots I am reminded of the classic line from the “Final Battle” scenes of the movie “Water-world” .
Scene: Tanker exploding in flames
Little girl to the frantic pirate leader : “Is this part of your Big Plan?”
One wonders if some sycophant has thought of posing that question to Putrid when reviewing “progress” at the front. ( while, of course, keeping well away from any high windows.)
The atmosphere at The Headquarters must be a bit strained these daze, not unlike the last days in the Fuhrerbunker.

the Führerbunker didn't have any windows so was a safer place than anything around Putin at present.

ORAC 11th Sep 2022 21:39


There has been very little mention of the still very large Russian Air Force attempting to help stem the Ukrainian advances. Have you heard any assessments of why?
The UKR forces have taking BUK MSAM embedded units with them, plus all the MANPAD, reportedly the RU Air Force are refusing to go anywhere near them - and have also lost several jets to friendly fire from their own troops.

And, of course, will intermingled units - they can’t ell friend from foe…

fdr 11th Sep 2022 21:55


Originally Posted by NWSRG (Post 11294831)
So what do we get in place of Putin? It could be better or worse, and none of us knows which yet. My point was not about worrying about Putin, it is that we ought to worry about the uncertainty that comes with a new regime.

the anger in the street so far appears to be as much about the incompetence of the prosecution of the war as about the lunacy of the war. What follows will depend on who gets to rush the gates of the bunker first as much as anything else. The escalation option has real and quite certain risks to Russia's own population with many population centres downwind of any areas of escalation, as well as a major amount of the arable land of Russia. Putin is the existential threat to Russia, not Ukraine. Navalny seems like one of the only rational rallying points for a soft landing of the Russian adventure in real estate. In 1917, the army revolted, and that could be the trigger for a soft landing, the hawks that sit in Moscow may not be so vocal with an AK-12 stuck up their nostrils by conscripts who have been deceived by management.

Where is the VVS? It is more difficult to donate the VVS equipment to the Ukrainian defence I guess.

The redeployment seems to have forgotten to include their hardware, donations appreciated by Ukraine.

Wokkafans 11th Sep 2022 22:00

Aviation content - looks like the lead may have taken some damage:

"2 Russian Su-25s avoid 2 Igla\Stinger launches, Unknown location."

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFoota...eb2x&context=3



rattman 11th Sep 2022 23:03


Originally Posted by Video Mixdown (Post 11295022)
​​​​​​There has been very little mention of the still very large Russian Air Force attempting to help stem the Ukrainian advances. Have you heard any assessments of why?


Officially not but annecdotally ukraine is running quite heavy SAM and Manpad forces near the attacking forces. RUF has pretty much refused to get over the battlefield, looks like they have lost 2 SU-34 (one shot down and one damaged and crashed in crimea) 1 Su-25 and 1 SU-24 in the last 48 hours

Wokkafans 11th Sep 2022 23:27

The Ukrainian Army confirms that the Russian forces have fled the city of Svatove.



RatherBeFlying 12th Sep 2022 01:45

RF are effectively wasting vast amounts of artillery on civilian targets, leaving them short of shells to engage military targets. Their aim also seems deficient.

UKF by contrast are far more effective in taking out military targets.

Politico ran an article on Camden AK where munition factories are short of workers while inventory is sagging and orders are piling up.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazi...apons-00055124

Winemaker 12th Sep 2022 02:01

An interesting article in The Atlantic about where Russia is headed, well worth a read.

Even if they prove ephemeral, the events of the past few days do change the nature of this war. From the very beginning, everybody—Europeans, Americans, the global business community in particular—has wanted a return to stability. But the path to stability in Ukraine, long-lasting stability, has been hard to see. After all, any cease-fire imposed too early could be treated, by Moscow, as an opportunity to rearm. Any offer to negotiate could be understood, in Moscow, as a sign of weakness. But now is the time to ask about the stability of Russia itself and to factor that question into our plans. Russian soldiers are running away, ditching their equipment, asking to surrender. How long do we have to wait until the men in Putin’s inner circle do the same?

The possibility of instability in Russia, a nuclear power, terrifies many. But it may now be unavoidable. And if that’s what is coming, we should anticipate it, plan for it, think about the possibilities as well as the dangers. “We have learned not to be scared,” Reznikov told his Kyiv audience on Saturday. “Now we ask the rest of you not to be scared too.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-putin/671405/

West Coast 12th Sep 2022 02:38


Originally Posted by Winemaker (Post 11295113)
An interesting article in The Atlantic about where Russia is headed, well worth a read.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-putin/671405/

It is interesting. I’m just not sure the end game is here yet. The enemy has a say in when the war is over, and I think they still have some tricks up their sleeves.

NutLoose 12th Sep 2022 03:23

Well they are fighting each other in the media as to where it all went wrong and how to fix it.


Max Tow 12th Sep 2022 03:57

Russia now largest military equipment supplier to Ukraine?

ORAC 12th Sep 2022 06:13

At sunrise this morning a swarm of 40 quadcopters all equipped with cameras, MILES, and lethal munition capable launched in advance of 11th ACR’s attack on a prepared defense by 1AD. Drones will be as important in the first battle of the next war as artillery is today.

rattman 12th Sep 2022 06:44


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11295175)
At sunrise this morning a swarm of 40 quadcopters all equipped with cameras, MILES, and lethal munition capable launched in advance of 11th ACR’s attack on a prepared defense by 1AD. Drones will be as important in the first battle of the next war as artillery is today.


That was an exercise in the US, not ukraine

ORAC 12th Sep 2022 06:51

The way war is going….


ORAC 12th Sep 2022 07:15

”Ukraine now controls the junctions in Kharkiv city, Kupyansk, and Lyman -- the three blue circles. Note that this means that the route from Belgorod to Severdonetsk (the red circles) is cut, and there is no other direct rail line from Russia serving the Severdonetsk region.

Another consequence of this capture is that Belgorod is essentially useless to Russia as a staging point now. Previously they were occupying parts of Ukraine north of Kharkiv to protect Belgorod from Ukrainian artillery, but they are now said to be abandoning those positions”….


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e9713feed.jpeg

skua 12th Sep 2022 07:56

That Atlantic piece is very good. I hope the Elysée and the Bundeskanzleramt have read this para in particular:

"To prepare for Putin’s exit does not mean that Americans, Europeans, or any outsiders intervene directly in the politics of Moscow. We have no tools that can affect the course of events in the Kremlin, and any effort to meddle would certainly backfire. But that doesn’t mean we should help him stay in power either. As Western heads of state, foreign ministers, and generals think about how to end this war, they should not try to preserve Putin’s view of himself or of the world, his backward-looking definition of Russian greatness. They should not be planning to negotiate on his terms at all, because they might be dealing with someone else altogether."

NutLoose 12th Sep 2022 09:14

If true this is awesome, Russian troops are negotiating a surrender, or at least some of them on the right bank of Dnipro River, Kherson Oblast






NutLoose 12th Sep 2022 09:21

Lt Colonel captured... ohh arr that looks nasty :)



NutLoose 12th Sep 2022 09:30


ORAC 12th Sep 2022 09:37

Interesting admission from Russian "Vostok" battalion commander Aleksandr Khodakovsy who, discussing potential mobilisation, says it's not going to solve essential issues including lack of reconnaissance, EW, and lack of manpower is a more minor issue.


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