Airman Aircrew pay review
Am in a room in the Eastern part of the World watching Schindler's list;clucking bells. Am thinking how lucky we have all been and how things could be so much different.
My arm is also sore and I wonder if I have done the right thing. I am scared for what may happen and yes, I will be in the front line of things evan as an NCA "member" (to coin a phrase).
I know people thought they were going to get something fantastic out of the our "AA review", however I hope they didn't expect it. I hope that as the non-naive professionals that we should be, that we would understand that the requirement of the Service was not to lose (in the short-term), the numbers of NCA that would statistically cause grief to our fleets.
We have seen these reviews for years, and should know that only a few benifit and the majority lose. The people we think should have been targeted never are, and those who were, should n't.
Consider yourselves lucky and think about what you could be earning in civvy street; Consider what you are getting now.
For those of you that have served less than 14 years; you have a great deal to achieve and give, for us knackered sh*ts who dont get a penny; we have a great deal to pass on, and to take.
I am watching people being murdered now. Sorry to be so stiff,(it has been a week).
My arm is also sore and I wonder if I have done the right thing. I am scared for what may happen and yes, I will be in the front line of things evan as an NCA "member" (to coin a phrase).
I know people thought they were going to get something fantastic out of the our "AA review", however I hope they didn't expect it. I hope that as the non-naive professionals that we should be, that we would understand that the requirement of the Service was not to lose (in the short-term), the numbers of NCA that would statistically cause grief to our fleets.
We have seen these reviews for years, and should know that only a few benifit and the majority lose. The people we think should have been targeted never are, and those who were, should n't.
Consider yourselves lucky and think about what you could be earning in civvy street; Consider what you are getting now.
For those of you that have served less than 14 years; you have a great deal to achieve and give, for us knackered sh*ts who dont get a penny; we have a great deal to pass on, and to take.
I am watching people being murdered now. Sorry to be so stiff,(it has been a week).
Last edited by Avtur; 9th Feb 2003 at 19:48.
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Don't hold your breath....
A word of caution for all thinking the PAS will mean a huge pension increase because of the flying pay being included. What they will probably do is give you a 'representative' pay band for pension purposes (whatever that means). All I know is that it is not as good as it first seems. The 'representative' pay band is not equal to your current pay plus flying pay at all. The Officers' PAS pension is calculated on the number of days done on PAS multiplied by a supplement, which will probably be changed as they see fit...(PAS pilots will get an extra 64.7p per day per year on PAS whereas WSO (RC) will only get 41.1p per day per year). Yet another front/rear split occuring and I thought we were all operating the same aircraft.......
Also will you be required to sign up for the new pension system when it comes out?
Also will you be required to sign up for the new pension system when it comes out?
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AVTUR
I think your post sums things up exactly!
You are sat with a sore arm. At some point you may have to take unlicensed tablets that may interact with the injection that caused your sore arm and permanently damage your health. You are scared and on the front line!
As for the review, I didn't think I would get anything except that which had been agreed back in 1998. It is not unreasonable to expect the same rate of flying pay as an Officer who does EXACTLY the same job as me! It was agreed in 1998 and AGAIN in 2003. But we aren't going to get it are we?
I know the salary I get now, I will never get in Civvie Street. But quality of life has to come first. What are we? A rag tag cash starved outfit, trying to be a world power Air Force. With Dad’s Army managers who aren't fit to be running corner shops. About to fight a war that the British public don't appear to support. Most fleets over 35 years old and ready to drop out of the sky, troops having to buy their own equipment!! NCA will always have Commisioned Aircrew looking down their noses at us and treating us as if we just dropped off their shoes.
Out there the grass isn’t greener it’s true. But as I am rapidly discovering, the job market is very strong and for any one who has done 22 years plus, life can be extremely comfortable outside.
I have made absolutely the right decision for me in PVR'ing.
Bottom line, fellow NCA is this: If you don't like what they have done in the review then leave. If you are not going to leave, then shut up and get on with the job in hand!
As Black Adder said just before he blew his whistle in 1917 “Good luck everybody”
I think your post sums things up exactly!
You are sat with a sore arm. At some point you may have to take unlicensed tablets that may interact with the injection that caused your sore arm and permanently damage your health. You are scared and on the front line!
As for the review, I didn't think I would get anything except that which had been agreed back in 1998. It is not unreasonable to expect the same rate of flying pay as an Officer who does EXACTLY the same job as me! It was agreed in 1998 and AGAIN in 2003. But we aren't going to get it are we?
I know the salary I get now, I will never get in Civvie Street. But quality of life has to come first. What are we? A rag tag cash starved outfit, trying to be a world power Air Force. With Dad’s Army managers who aren't fit to be running corner shops. About to fight a war that the British public don't appear to support. Most fleets over 35 years old and ready to drop out of the sky, troops having to buy their own equipment!! NCA will always have Commisioned Aircrew looking down their noses at us and treating us as if we just dropped off their shoes.
Out there the grass isn’t greener it’s true. But as I am rapidly discovering, the job market is very strong and for any one who has done 22 years plus, life can be extremely comfortable outside.
I have made absolutely the right decision for me in PVR'ing.
Bottom line, fellow NCA is this: If you don't like what they have done in the review then leave. If you are not going to leave, then shut up and get on with the job in hand!
As Black Adder said just before he blew his whistle in 1917 “Good luck everybody”
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First, lets not lose sight of the need for the study:
"...to ensure that the appropriate number and quality of AA, of all specialisations, are recruited and retained in order to meet the long-term operational needs of the RAF."
It was NOT to satisfy older sore-in-the-tooth rearcrew who felt hard done by over various issues. There was a deficit of people leaving at a certain stage of their careers and a cash incentive has been offered to sort that deficit.
As far as I can see:
New WSO branch structure: good, allows possibility for crossing to 'other trade' if we want to.
MACR to be employed for recruitment and selection of WSOs: good.
Training: single, modular course. Perhaps not so good for those wanting a specific trade. But good for re-training (AEO changes to ALM etc).
Career Managment Strategy: So far I think we have not had a proper one (sqn merry go-round). This is a start. MACRs to PMA, SO3 etc.
NCA to get accreditations for quals. Good.
Remedial physio work for crewmen. At least they are recognising its a problem which needs sorting.
PA spine: I'll reserve judgment on this one 'till I see the numbers. I'd welcome a larger pension, although I do n.b the above comment about what it might really mean.
It also recognises that MACRs don't do alot of management stuff for their rank. Running a section is a bit more like it. So at least the Sgt/FS/MACR ladder gives something to aim for.
I'm dissapointed by the defferal (sp?) of the flying pay issue again. However, it will not make me leave.
MACRs to be Rearcrew Leaders. Good for the challenge and responsibility, but I do wonder about the subsequent lack of a Commisioned link. Rearcrew leaders: did you ever get THAT much sorted out at the bar in the O's Mess? As far as I can see, if you have a Boss worth his salt, ni matter what his rank, he will fight your case for you if it is a just cause.
"...to ensure that the appropriate number and quality of AA, of all specialisations, are recruited and retained in order to meet the long-term operational needs of the RAF."
It was NOT to satisfy older sore-in-the-tooth rearcrew who felt hard done by over various issues. There was a deficit of people leaving at a certain stage of their careers and a cash incentive has been offered to sort that deficit.
As far as I can see:
New WSO branch structure: good, allows possibility for crossing to 'other trade' if we want to.
MACR to be employed for recruitment and selection of WSOs: good.
Training: single, modular course. Perhaps not so good for those wanting a specific trade. But good for re-training (AEO changes to ALM etc).
Career Managment Strategy: So far I think we have not had a proper one (sqn merry go-round). This is a start. MACRs to PMA, SO3 etc.
NCA to get accreditations for quals. Good.
Remedial physio work for crewmen. At least they are recognising its a problem which needs sorting.
PA spine: I'll reserve judgment on this one 'till I see the numbers. I'd welcome a larger pension, although I do n.b the above comment about what it might really mean.
It also recognises that MACRs don't do alot of management stuff for their rank. Running a section is a bit more like it. So at least the Sgt/FS/MACR ladder gives something to aim for.
I'm dissapointed by the defferal (sp?) of the flying pay issue again. However, it will not make me leave.
MACRs to be Rearcrew Leaders. Good for the challenge and responsibility, but I do wonder about the subsequent lack of a Commisioned link. Rearcrew leaders: did you ever get THAT much sorted out at the bar in the O's Mess? As far as I can see, if you have a Boss worth his salt, ni matter what his rank, he will fight your case for you if it is a just cause.
Last edited by seafuryfan; 10th Feb 2003 at 19:04.
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just to show the other side of Seafury's coin....
1) Really, how mny NCA bang out with five years or less to pension time?
2) I've lost count of the number of servicemen/people I've met interested in ALM, but are concerned about the FW/RW uncertainty. I honestly believe that the new system of "what's my job going to be, where am I going to get posted?(Kinloss)" is going to wreck recruitment.
3) MACR running sections...excellent, however, logic suggests that this will turn into a money saving excercise (no need for Commisioned AA) , and put an end to the Officer/AA flying pay problem.
Realistically, especially if the rumuored pension changes occur, what incentive is there to remain in service after 12 years. Or is this part of a master plan?
1) Really, how mny NCA bang out with five years or less to pension time?
2) I've lost count of the number of servicemen/people I've met interested in ALM, but are concerned about the FW/RW uncertainty. I honestly believe that the new system of "what's my job going to be, where am I going to get posted?(Kinloss)" is going to wreck recruitment.
3) MACR running sections...excellent, however, logic suggests that this will turn into a money saving excercise (no need for Commisioned AA) , and put an end to the Officer/AA flying pay problem.
Realistically, especially if the rumuored pension changes occur, what incentive is there to remain in service after 12 years. Or is this part of a master plan?
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Boots has got it spot on. Does anyone know of anyone daft enough to actually leave at the 17 year point with all the pension/gratuity implications that entails
If anyone is fooled by the new recruiting package then you really need to try and get out a bit more. It's nothing more than a stealth effort to get bums on seats in the frozen north of Ice Station Kilo. And the daft notion that you can "retrain" from Aeop/Wsop to maybe Air Eng or Alm is laughable and if they think anyone other than the gullable spotty faced youth from off the streets is going to fall for it then they are pi@@ed
MACR in important posts is a great idea........or cut out Comissioned Aircrew and save all that pension and gratuity and flying pay costs.............which do you think the bean counters thought was most important
Reality check folks......it's a cost saving exercise with a last ditch attempt to mug enough punters into place in Kinloss.
For my money an offer of 22K at the 22 year point for a return of service to age 47, would'nt help me as I am already at my 29.5 year point so no axe grinding here , and relocating the Grimnod to Lincolnshire would have been two outstanding moves solving retention of quaity AA and increasing the desire of guys to go Aeop/Wsop over night.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
If anyone is fooled by the new recruiting package then you really need to try and get out a bit more. It's nothing more than a stealth effort to get bums on seats in the frozen north of Ice Station Kilo. And the daft notion that you can "retrain" from Aeop/Wsop to maybe Air Eng or Alm is laughable and if they think anyone other than the gullable spotty faced youth from off the streets is going to fall for it then they are pi@@ed
MACR in important posts is a great idea........or cut out Comissioned Aircrew and save all that pension and gratuity and flying pay costs.............which do you think the bean counters thought was most important
Reality check folks......it's a cost saving exercise with a last ditch attempt to mug enough punters into place in Kinloss.
For my money an offer of 22K at the 22 year point for a return of service to age 47, would'nt help me as I am already at my 29.5 year point so no axe grinding here
, and relocating the Grimnod to Lincolnshire would have been two outstanding moves solving retention of quaity AA and increasing the desire of guys to go Aeop/Wsop over night.all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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ABIW
What a very good idea move the kipper fleet to blighty give the lads time to get their skin colour to white from blue before they go to sunny places.
It would however upset the sweaties - ah well.
Their Airships and the rest of the Air Force might even realise that the Norman exsists and is not a cold war relic - but then that may require intelligence.
The review has to be better than a website and a poster campaign.
no dis to the AAircrew webmaster, how is ISK by the way
What a very good idea move the kipper fleet to blighty give the lads time to get their skin colour to white from blue before they go to sunny places.
It would however upset the sweaties - ah well.
Their Airships and the rest of the Air Force might even realise that the Norman exsists and is not a cold war relic - but then that may require intelligence.
The review has to be better than a website and a poster campaign.
no dis to the AAircrew webmaster, how is ISK by the way
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ABIW said:
Does anyone know of anyone daft enough to actually leave at the 17 year point with .........
I asked that very question, and the answer is that the Incentive , bribe call it what you will is to retain people after their 12 year point. I think a wedge at 25 years would have been more constructive but then I am just a worker
I cannot see many ALMs wanting to go to other trades but can see the downsized AEng folk coming to ALM with the same badge from 1 Apr 03 and diferant rates of pay for at least another year.
Always p me off that the RAF give after the tax man and take back before the tax man when told to shove it
T_M
I asked that very question, and the answer is that the Incentive , bribe call it what you will is to retain people after their 12 year point. I think a wedge at 25 years would have been more constructive but then I am just a worker
I cannot see many ALMs wanting to go to other trades but can see the downsized AEng folk coming to ALM with the same badge from 1 Apr 03 and diferant rates of pay for at least another year.
Always p me off that the RAF give after the tax man and take back before the tax man when told to shove it
T_M
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But surely, the bung at 17 yr point is pointless......who is really going to leave with the pension within reach. To retain past 12 yr, how about "signing on bonus" in the same vein, repayable if you reach for black/yellow before the 17 yr point. After that, it all takes care of itself. Or have I missed something?
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Escapee: Sympathize with your 12-year point dilemma - there will always be winners and losers when the "dosh is dished" (witness the FRR payments of 2001/2). Personal advice: If you are really considering PVR - do it now - there will be nothing worse than being bitter as you approach the big four-oh.
Generally crew room banter back here in blighty has even generated one suggestion that the Service would have been better off doing nothing at all. At least then there would have been less heartache for all those who are now disappointed.
Shandyman: Which level of the leadership are you faithless about? - Do you really think that anyone but Treasury mandarins really have a say in these issues. I cannot really see that Stn Cdrs ISK, DL, VN or NBN (new Budgens nearby) are really celebrating the fact that many of their boys are so p****d off.
FixedWingFaggot: (are you
one by the way?) - Sorry mate - but if you are in beyond 22 years you have presumably accepted an offer of further service after due consideration. The downbanding of AEOp fs/macr WAS wrong, but we are long past that now. If you are considering PVR please see my comment to Escapee above.
Akula: "bah humbug"? The time criteria applied to this bonus matches exactly that applied to commissioned aircrew bonuses - (do you want equality or what?).
Gorilla: Much respect. Admire your bottle in PVR'ing. Question: as you are serving to age 47, have you received an offer of further service to age 55 and elected to wait, or was the Service still debating on whether to retain you or not? Either way, good luck.........
Cheezer: You, guy, really puzzle me - who would run your "Ltd Co" - all chiefs, no indians or vice-versa? What would the pay scales be and would you offer bonuses? Furthermore, be careful what you wish for - 60 AEOps is periously close to the average AEOp sqn strength on the kipper fleet. Please don't give " their airships" any more good ideas about re-shaping the maritime force.
Avtur: If you are who I think you are, the common sense nature of your post is completely unsurprising. Hope the arm is better, might (or might not) be seeing you soon.......... As I look out of the window of our sumptuous crew room, I can see a Peugeot 206CC with the lights left on.........
Keep smilin'* / moanin'*
*Delete as applicable
Generally crew room banter back here in blighty has even generated one suggestion that the Service would have been better off doing nothing at all. At least then there would have been less heartache for all those who are now disappointed.
Shandyman: Which level of the leadership are you faithless about? - Do you really think that anyone but Treasury mandarins really have a say in these issues. I cannot really see that Stn Cdrs ISK, DL, VN or NBN (new Budgens nearby) are really celebrating the fact that many of their boys are so p****d off.
FixedWingFaggot: (are you
one by the way?) - Sorry mate - but if you are in beyond 22 years you have presumably accepted an offer of further service after due consideration. The downbanding of AEOp fs/macr WAS wrong, but we are long past that now. If you are considering PVR please see my comment to Escapee above.Akula: "bah humbug"? The time criteria applied to this bonus matches exactly that applied to commissioned aircrew bonuses - (do you want equality or what?).
Gorilla: Much respect. Admire your bottle in PVR'ing. Question: as you are serving to age 47, have you received an offer of further service to age 55 and elected to wait, or was the Service still debating on whether to retain you or not? Either way, good luck.........
Cheezer: You, guy, really puzzle me - who would run your "Ltd Co" - all chiefs, no indians or vice-versa? What would the pay scales be and would you offer bonuses? Furthermore, be careful what you wish for - 60 AEOps is periously close to the average AEOp sqn strength on the kipper fleet. Please don't give " their airships" any more good ideas about re-shaping the maritime force.
Avtur: If you are who I think you are, the common sense nature of your post is completely unsurprising. Hope the arm is better, might (or might not) be seeing you soon.......... As I look out of the window of our sumptuous crew room, I can see a Peugeot 206CC with the lights left on.........
Keep smilin'* / moanin'*
*Delete as applicable
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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WarmInTheMiddle
I am engaged to age 47 as a result of being ground crew before becoming aircrew. I have said all along that I cannot wait until age 47 to leave. Indeed two years ago this month I was about to PVR. They decided to pay me 2 x £5K to keep me in until 01 Apr 03. Since then I have been given the usual carrot of wait one more year, secondary re-engagement is very competitive etc. It's just around the corner!!
I have waited to the last possible moment to leave. For the record, it's not about a lack of bonuses in the review. The review was the last piece of my jigsaw puzzle of life. A bonus would have kept me in obviously, but as an ageing commodity I have to leave before I am considered to be to old to employ. Even now in my chosen second career I am considered to be over age by some of the companies involved.
Age 47 is probably THE worst engagement the service ever offered to anyone. LOS 30 isn't much better either, means I will exit at age 48!!
I don't particularly want to leave, but I have been boxed into a corner with no way out. I would be happy to be extended to Age 50 or 55, as I would not have to worry about a second career. But then the ball isn't in my court.
I have a question: Are there any Airmen Aircrew out there engaged to Age 47? If so could you please e-mail me? Thanks.
I am engaged to age 47 as a result of being ground crew before becoming aircrew. I have said all along that I cannot wait until age 47 to leave. Indeed two years ago this month I was about to PVR. They decided to pay me 2 x £5K to keep me in until 01 Apr 03. Since then I have been given the usual carrot of wait one more year, secondary re-engagement is very competitive etc. It's just around the corner!!
I have waited to the last possible moment to leave. For the record, it's not about a lack of bonuses in the review. The review was the last piece of my jigsaw puzzle of life. A bonus would have kept me in obviously, but as an ageing commodity I have to leave before I am considered to be to old to employ. Even now in my chosen second career I am considered to be over age by some of the companies involved.
Age 47 is probably THE worst engagement the service ever offered to anyone. LOS 30 isn't much better either, means I will exit at age 48!!
I don't particularly want to leave, but I have been boxed into a corner with no way out. I would be happy to be extended to Age 50 or 55, as I would not have to worry about a second career. But then the ball isn't in my court.
I have a question: Are there any Airmen Aircrew out there engaged to Age 47? If so could you please e-mail me? Thanks.
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Charlie L,
A hell of a lot quieter for the past few months, I wonder why that is? Oh, hang on.... How long have you been gone now? 
MadMark!!!
...how is ISK by the way
MadMark!!!
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My intention is to leave at the IPP. Consequently, my FRI (Free Resettlement Incentive) will be greatly received and has already been spent by my wife. It will in no way act as a retention incentive in my case - in fact many others may view it as extra incentive to leave at the 22 year point. It's BARKING mad.
Remember, dont' buy a house, don't by a car
Save all your money, and PVR
Remember, dont' buy a house, don't by a car
Save all your money, and PVR
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A few thoughts
Firstly, not everyone will always be pleased.
There was more in this package than i expected but some of the recommendations may be a long way off.
For the empowerment of MACR, who will become employable in SO3 slots etc. where are they going to get them from. Our lordships wont take guys from the front line to go sit at a desk.
I'm sure the MACR will enjoy the extra ACR's they will have to complete as WSOp leaders or whatever they will be called.
For any recruiting types down at Cranwell reading this your latest WSOp recruiting material is still way off the mark. For those who havn't seen it, it goes on about marine patrol aircraft and oil and gas installation surveillance. But it is very PC and EO. This is one area where the MACR need to get into and sort it out. The idea of AA, oops sorry NCA being involved in the recruiting process makes sense as some of the old duffers down there havn't got a clue.
Now as for the PA spine, i'll reserve judgement till I see the details and consult a financial advisor, if I ever get selected for it that is.
The biggest gripe has got to be the flying pay scandal, whether it goes up for NCA or down for the commisioned chaps matters not. The fact that it will have taken 7 years to implement is a bit of a joke. I'm sure some computer geek could have sorted that one out, or was there too many corners cut with the origional software to cut costs? The worst case i suppose is that the officers flying pay comes down to our level and I bet it won't be backdated to 1998, if you see what i mean. One thing that could have helped on the flying pay side was making the time between initial, middle and higher rates equal. Your officer gets his middle 4 years after his initial and higher 4 years after his middle, correct me if i'm wrong. While you wait 22 years for your top whack, so where is the equal opportunities in that one for additional pay.
I'll still be in till i'm 55 as I still enjoy the job, but certain aspects of this study may be a little divisive and I'm sure it was the same with the officer FRI's.
There was more in this package than i expected but some of the recommendations may be a long way off.
For the empowerment of MACR, who will become employable in SO3 slots etc. where are they going to get them from. Our lordships wont take guys from the front line to go sit at a desk.
I'm sure the MACR will enjoy the extra ACR's they will have to complete as WSOp leaders or whatever they will be called.
For any recruiting types down at Cranwell reading this your latest WSOp recruiting material is still way off the mark. For those who havn't seen it, it goes on about marine patrol aircraft and oil and gas installation surveillance. But it is very PC and EO. This is one area where the MACR need to get into and sort it out. The idea of AA, oops sorry NCA being involved in the recruiting process makes sense as some of the old duffers down there havn't got a clue.
Now as for the PA spine, i'll reserve judgement till I see the details and consult a financial advisor, if I ever get selected for it that is.
The biggest gripe has got to be the flying pay scandal, whether it goes up for NCA or down for the commisioned chaps matters not. The fact that it will have taken 7 years to implement is a bit of a joke. I'm sure some computer geek could have sorted that one out, or was there too many corners cut with the origional software to cut costs? The worst case i suppose is that the officers flying pay comes down to our level and I bet it won't be backdated to 1998, if you see what i mean. One thing that could have helped on the flying pay side was making the time between initial, middle and higher rates equal. Your officer gets his middle 4 years after his initial and higher 4 years after his middle, correct me if i'm wrong. While you wait 22 years for your top whack, so where is the equal opportunities in that one for additional pay.
I'll still be in till i'm 55 as I still enjoy the job, but certain aspects of this study may be a little divisive and I'm sure it was the same with the officer FRI's.
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Have just heard that the long term plan is that eventually the air force will comprise of pilots and NC aircrew - no navs and whats more no comissioned AEOps/ALMs/AEngs, something about en-powering MACRs? Although many probably aren't the fussed, I imagine that there a few who have always seen airman aircrew as a stepping stone to getting a comission, ie failed pilot/navs who were offered AEOp/ALM and took it. Now that this opportunity has been taken away, my betting is that quite a few will say B*ll**ks to it and reaply to OASC again. Result - further lose due to one of the measures that was designed to retain people.
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Gorrilla- hats of to you matey well done for sticking with your convictions.
Boots - spot on matey very very true.
Now for my own hunble opinion, the deal is good in some places and stinks in others.
Flying pay - what a load of bolox. I'm thinking of seeking some legal advice from an employment lawyer as to the legal arguement of change in TOS and implenetation of policy , is it discriminative and unfair etc any one interested in joining in ?
Promotion in WSOp branch , confirmed from horses mouth after april 1st all NCO Aircrew will be in the same pot on the same board despite there branch FS MACR requirements , mmm stinks me thinks
WSOp - thinly disguised to get excess ALM and Eng blokes on a Nimrod so they too can hurl every where
Loss of Commisioned slots to MACR , great about time we did something for the crown and anchors that were promoted over the last few years
Recruiting .. mmmm well the word from the DE is they wouldn't go near a WSOp job unless they were guaranteed there choice ie crewman alm etc
Bonus scheme , great maybe misplaced me thinks but im a winner and it hasnt enfluenced my decsision to stay in to 22 one jot well done airships
Will it make mor4e people sign on to IPP , I dont know but do the MOD care , me thinks they want a young professional team that the majority leave after 12 yrs and are repalced with new younger models who dont break so easily.
At the end of the day we all know that there are some hidden agenders here and were not being told the whole truth . Get rid of raer crew leaders , why I ask let pilots and WSO report on us mmmmmmm me thinks it's not going to work that well , it hasn't in the past !!!!
As for the dedicated physio for crewman , what a joke where we going to get these from , PEd staff and the medics are way under manned !!!!
Boys and Girls I put it to you this is just a stab at trying to address the problems and there seems to be some hidden agenders, on the face of it , its not bad put dig deeper and i think long term were in for a whole load of hurt.
Just wait to see what happens to the pension pot of gold .....
Any way off to do some more basic Vm at the School of excellence ... take care all in the gulf , fly safe and
all spelling mistakes are due to a temporary capacity problem at the moment
Boots - spot on matey very very true.
Now for my own hunble opinion, the deal is good in some places and stinks in others.
Flying pay - what a load of bolox. I'm thinking of seeking some legal advice from an employment lawyer as to the legal arguement of change in TOS and implenetation of policy , is it discriminative and unfair etc any one interested in joining in ?
Promotion in WSOp branch , confirmed from horses mouth after april 1st all NCO Aircrew will be in the same pot on the same board despite there branch FS MACR requirements , mmm stinks me thinks
WSOp - thinly disguised to get excess ALM and Eng blokes on a Nimrod so they too can hurl every where
Loss of Commisioned slots to MACR , great about time we did something for the crown and anchors that were promoted over the last few years
Recruiting .. mmmm well the word from the DE is they wouldn't go near a WSOp job unless they were guaranteed there choice ie crewman alm etc
Bonus scheme , great maybe misplaced me thinks but im a winner and it hasnt enfluenced my decsision to stay in to 22 one jot well done airships
Will it make mor4e people sign on to IPP , I dont know but do the MOD care , me thinks they want a young professional team that the majority leave after 12 yrs and are repalced with new younger models who dont break so easily.
At the end of the day we all know that there are some hidden agenders here and were not being told the whole truth . Get rid of raer crew leaders , why I ask let pilots and WSO report on us mmmmmmm me thinks it's not going to work that well , it hasn't in the past !!!!
As for the dedicated physio for crewman , what a joke where we going to get these from , PEd staff and the medics are way under manned !!!!
Boys and Girls I put it to you this is just a stab at trying to address the problems and there seems to be some hidden agenders, on the face of it , its not bad put dig deeper and i think long term were in for a whole load of hurt.
Just wait to see what happens to the pension pot of gold .....
Any way off to do some more basic Vm at the School of excellence ... take care all in the gulf , fly safe and
all spelling mistakes are due to a temporary capacity problem at the moment
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RC dear chap,
Had you been imbibing of strong liquor whilst typing your last as there appear, as probably in mine , quite a few typo's etc, however just be aware that one of the:
"great about time we did something for the crown and anchors that were promoted over the last few years" is now, god help us, very influential in where we are employed and from what I remember of him.................stroker!!...............watch your six young fella
The only accurate thing I have seen so far from the report is that us at the coalface percieve our lords and masters as a bunch of [email protected] me we are wrong...........20K at the 17 year point to stay till 22.....f@@k me readers
We have the "team" here in Wilts on friday and thanks to Tigs I will be asking the same question as regards 20K at 17 years but with a slightly differant slant to see what they have to say. However the new recruiting package is just utter tosh.
Guaranteed Wsop or my co@ks a kipper!! then a promise of retraining to something else................good grief ask the guys just trying to get from Rotarty to fixed wing how easy that is.....................................sirs you are full of pooh and will be caught out, as always.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Had you been imbibing of strong liquor whilst typing your last as there appear, as probably in mine
, quite a few typo's etc, however just be aware that one of the: "great about time we did something for the crown and anchors that were promoted over the last few years" is now, god help us, very influential in where we are employed and from what I remember of him.................stroker!!...............watch your six young fella
The only accurate thing I have seen so far from the report is that us at the coalface percieve our lords and masters as a bunch of [email protected] me we are wrong...........20K at the 17 year point to stay till 22.....f@@k me readers
We have the "team" here in Wilts on friday and thanks to Tigs I will be asking the same question as regards 20K at 17 years but with a slightly differant slant to see what they have to say. However the new recruiting package is just utter tosh.
Guaranteed Wsop or my co@ks a kipper!! then a promise of retraining to something else................good grief ask the guys just trying to get from Rotarty to fixed wing how easy that is.....................................sirs you are full of pooh and will be caught out, as always.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 11th Feb 2003 at 23:45.
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Flying Pay
Always_broken
Didn't get the chance to ask this at our brief from the team, but you might wish to.
How is it that a computer system that has to be updated each year with new rates of pay can't cope with a flying pay change?
All that has to be accessed in the system is the rate (happens every year), and the point at which an individual changes band (a parameter that is already programmed into the system and could easily be changed).
I don't accept that this cannot be done. Having read the AFPRB report, they seem to be just as frustrated with the MOD's inability to impliment some of their recommendations simply because of computers systems.
At least if we had asked the AFPRB to set the rates we would know where we stand & have found what needed to be changed. It seems to me that our lords & masters used the computer problem to dodge the issue, the AFPRB where asked to look at other issues with the knowledge that they could not be acted on yet, but it wasn't done with flying pay!
BTW para 2.16
"For the future, DLA MCG pointed out that the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law gave everyone the right to belong to a trade union." - Just a thought
Didn't get the chance to ask this at our brief from the team, but you might wish to.
How is it that a computer system that has to be updated each year with new rates of pay can't cope with a flying pay change?
All that has to be accessed in the system is the rate (happens every year), and the point at which an individual changes band (a parameter that is already programmed into the system and could easily be changed).
I don't accept that this cannot be done. Having read the AFPRB report, they seem to be just as frustrated with the MOD's inability to impliment some of their recommendations simply because of computers systems.
At least if we had asked the AFPRB to set the rates we would know where we stand & have found what needed to be changed. It seems to me that our lords & masters used the computer problem to dodge the issue, the AFPRB where asked to look at other issues with the knowledge that they could not be acted on yet, but it wasn't done with flying pay!
BTW para 2.16
"For the future, DLA MCG pointed out that the incorporation of the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law gave everyone the right to belong to a trade union." - Just a thought