Airman Aircrew pay review

[Spike]

Always_broken_in_wilts:

Good to see that your watering hole was open later than mine?



Whatever my position I still believe there is some good in this study; the Review Body decided to target a specific audience and they appear, at first view, to have made some real progress. I am waiting to see what affect it will have on those outside that "target audience" and whether all proposals will synch into the forthcoming pension review and, hopefully, the soon to come reversal of the travesty that was/is Pay 2000(1)(2)?

[Logistics Loader]

Escapee:
I got no intention of pvr'ing....i get my lump sum next yr for doing my time..

Avtur:
U must be of the overpaid/underworked bookworm technician types..
Loggies may be detested by most trades...UNTIL the helium bubble bursts, then you need us to get you to where you need to with all your trollies and golf clubs/ski's etc for a deployment...not just the flying club to get you there....

LL

[Charlie Luncher]

Spike
Old fella you are doing just what you told everyone not by looking backwards ref pay 2000. It happened due to the lack of support given by your trade sponsors, didn’t help assessing a couple of camp trolley dolleys on 10s either.
Pay 2000 was another way of targeting a limited budget to trades that had problems with recruiting etc.
I feel the change could be good if you get on and work the system, if you sit back and bitch in the crewroom, well you will do the cadre a disservice. At the next board meeting of RAF Inc the questions will be asked as to how it has worked does it need more development or did they throw it back in our face perhaps it just could evolve for the better. Those who advocate they should get blueblood pay levels, go to cranditz and dance with the devil and earn it.

LL you and yours have to rate as one of the biggest pains in the harris of my career to date thankfully we manage very well without you, in fact it only turns to rat when you lot get in the way - my sympathies to those who deal with LL and his lot on a daily basis

[Mad_Mark]

I second what Charlie says,

LL we have managed to load bags, golf clubs, bikes, B-B-Q's, triwall boxes, lacons, etc, onto our aircraft for years without one of your type in sight!

Stop feeling so self important! I too feel sorry for the truckie fleet, having to put up with 'them' all the time.

MadMark!!!

[Charlie Luncher]

MM

You are forgetting the Ride-on mower, kiddies climbing frame and my favourite two motorbikes.
Not bad given what we have to work with
but then we do have lots of experience with the rations

[Stan Bydike]

Charlie,

I remember the saga of the first ride on mower well. In those days (mid 80s) the pound was significantly higher against the dollar and loads of savings could be made.

The ac landed at BZN to drop some guys off. Customs said we had to unload the ac totally to clear as it was the first port of entry.

As the mower appeared out the door - head customs man said thanks very much. Won't be necessary to unload - off you go to Kinloss.

Seem to remember that the movers stood and watched and offered no assistance whatsoever.

That, of course, was the first - been many more mowers ridden across the pond since

[WarmInTheMiddle]

Spike: Like the cut of your gyb fella – judging by some of the responses you’ve had so far, it would appear that not everyone is discarding the positive side of the AASS.

Charlie Luncher: Agree totally – especially your “dance with devil” advice – Cranditz will always be a cakewalk for any average NCA……. By the way have you done any more sparring with “Rawmeat” lately? – I hear he’s slowed down a bit with old age……..

LL: Thought about reporting your posts to a moderator – not for their tone or the opinions you express (they are your right after all) – but for your appalling command of the English language. On balance though, I had such a laugh at your vain attempt to throw a grenade into this thread that I decided that we’d be better off leaving you out there. The morale boost you provide is welcome – it’s so satisfying to know that single-celled organisms like you still harbour jealousy towards our flying club…….

Avtur: (Chuckle) You still haven’t spotted (clue) who I am have you………..

[Spike]

Charlie Luncher:

"Old fella you are doing just what you told everyone not by looking backwards ref pay 2000."


I apologize for any mixed message you may have perceived.

My referral to Pay 2000 was intended to point out how the empowerment of the NCA Cadre could allow for the future review of all NCA pay scales, once 12 months have passed post the AASS. Nothing more.

My concerns were/are for the future. Specifically how all NCA, and those that give a damn about their progression towards a comparable standing with all other aircrew, must now look at many issues (AASS implementation, pension reviews, restructuring at sqn level for pay re-banding assessments, AIPs for Qs other than SAR EIEC, flying pay issues, better kit trials and provision, manning and employment issues etc). This review will ease the way towards many positives, and achieving pay parity is certainly one, but the work must begin now. This "synch" I referred to is where my true concerns lie. The pan-branch empowerment and MACR SO3 posts is something that must be got right. I truly believe that certain parts of the Study will give NCA, present and future, a worthwhile career path, that, with further work, can offer many options for personal and professional development.

My original post was a plea to the 'bleeding hearts' to look more deeply and see what the future now offers, they must accept the writing on the wall and work towards making it function. This Study, although not a panacea, is but the first move towards a potentially much brighter future.....

[6nandneutral]

LL
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you and many of your fellow LLs, for keeping a lot of us in a job. As long as you keep scr*wing up, our jobs will be secure.

[Logistics Loader]

Long Haul shift.

FWIW,

I had an extremely long shift, coupled with screaming kids at home = lack of sleep...hence few grammatical errors.

However my command of English is far better than some peoples command of thinking they can do everyone elses job.. An old school mate of mine, joined up as an L Tech ST...(flight Sim Tech) for the uneducated..he was surprised at what was involved in certain other trades..It is not my intention to inflame/offend anyone in particular!! If you feel offended...Tough!! freedom of speech allows me to voice my humble opinion/view.

In my career i have had the misfortune to dent 1 aircraft...
Engineers were very good about fixing it..thank heavens for speed tape...covered the scrape nicely..and it was only a scrape..
I do recall seeing an individual drop his metal toolbox onto the floor of a Wilts truck once.He calmly covered the resulting hole with black nasty and said it would do a trip, because we were going back to base.

Even better, a shiny fleet type, was seen to be practising wheelies on the pan, somewhere in deepest Oxon. Was it the Loggies who failed to load it correctly??? (heavy load gone to rear of frame would have tipped it nicely)..
No!!
It was our fixing type brothers...faulty fuel gauge i believe was the answer..i will stand corrected if it wasn't that..
Result = aircraft write off..

Also recall a story told to me years ago about an aircraft crash, whereby the it was claimed the load had moved in flight..causing loss of control..
When wreckage was investigated..the load was still attached to the floor and was in fairly good condition, therefore eliminating the load moving in flight as the cause. Believe it was the drivers fault in the end..

Similar to recent incident where tactical fleet from across the pond were practising low level runs for a tank drop, however, on the practise runs they hadn't loaded the tank.
On the day of the display, aircraft ran in low, complete with 25+ ton of deadweight in back end, result was aircraft hit the ground as tank despatched, Loadie survived i believed by clinging to tank as it left aircraft..no other survivors..

keep smiling..
LL

[escapee]

LL
I fail to see the point of your last post. What were you trying to say?

[swinging monkey]

LL

I wish I was as important as you seem to think you are

[left one o clock]

We seem to have drifted a bit off message hear guys. The start point of this thread was the outcome of the AA Sustainability Review.

[Biggus]

Left one o'clock

ALL threads drift "off message", it is actually just a question of how long it takes. This thread has actually done better than most in staying on track until now!!

[Charlie Luncher]

WarmInTheMiddle

Dude I am still trying to find something to beat him with, the only thing that seems to work is to challenge him to beer, as he still drinks like a girl, and then do a few rounds in a minivan after he has slowed a bit. It is all very laid back out here, no worries and all so I may go for the make love not war approach!

Spike are you on ISS at the mo?

LL I heard a few stories in a crewroom once too

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

LL,
Good skills fella, as you are now justifying why the rest of the 3 services refer to you lot as Muppets

Keep up the good work...............cos you are fast becoming a legend in your own mind

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[TheSeeFarShadow]

Spike,
Are you the imfamous 'Spike's a nob', as per the whole Nimrod MR fleets's radar scatchpads?

[WarmInTheMiddle]

OK – back to the thread then (ish).

The whole Flying Pay (FP) issue has a definite whiff about it – particularly when viewed in the context that NCA with “E” and “LM” brevets carry out exactly the same airborne duties as their officer counterparts. The same can also be said of some AEO employment (SAR Helo WinchOps, E-3D Surv/ESMOps and Dominie PAs).

However, there are AEO flying duties that have no direct read-across from the AEOp duties (MR2 - including captaincy, R1 – including Mission Cdr and E-3D – including Tac Director/Weapons Controller) and cannot be filled by AEOps fulfilling duties on the same platforms.

In a completely non-belligerent way, I would welcome comment (informed or otherwise – after all, that’s half the fun of this site….) on whether WSOps should expect to be paid equivalent FP to that of WSOs who are fulfilling duties that, ultimately, demand greater responsibility (and, in this litigious age, accountability). This is not another grenade by the way. The measures brought in by the AASS will soon see many NCA and officers wearing the same brevet. The impact of DE WSOs and bled-through ex Navs into the WSO cadre will possibly result in reduced NCA in-branch commissioning opportunities. It will be interesting to see what FP rates are paid to these disparate feeds into the WSO branch.

Escapee: I’ve worked out who you are, by the way, from your posts on this and other threads, - you almost type in a Welsh accent!

Keep Smilin’*/Moanin’*

*Delete as applicable.

[Mad_Mark]

WarmInTheMiddle,

whether WSOps should expect to be paid equivalent FP to that of WSOs who are fulfilling duties that, ultimately, demand greater responsibility

Is that not why Queenie pays WSO's more of her shillings than she does the WSOp's

MadMark!!!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Folks,
The flying pay issue will be addressed quite simply by the demise of the Officer cadre. The supposed empowering of MACR into important posts is nothing but a cost saving measure, less flying pay - smaller pension - smaller handshake - which if I, "billy f@@kwit - no o levels - and a lowly ALM to boot can spot then surely the rest of you rocket scientists outthere must be able to see it as well.

And the assumption that anyone, apart from your average spotty faced civvy youth of course..............pre supposing the newly empowered MACR at the CIO is prepared to lie in the manner that his current "O" counterpart is so adept at, will be fooled with the new method of getting bums on seats for the kipper fleet just defies all logic.

And if anyone is daft enough to believe that after one or two tours kippering you will be given the chance to clear off and have a go at ALM or Eng..........................HELLO

The only correct thing to come out of the review is that we on the shop floor percieve our superiors to be [email protected] in my humble opinion they have confirmed in writing.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced