Treacherous fishhead berates F-ing crabs
Only met the fungal faced one once - at Deci shortly after the Malvinas thing. Came across as a bit of an ar$e - and he droned on about how the Paras had come across some hut in the Malvinas. Allegedly, out of the door came some American mercenaries. "Thank God it's you guys - thought it was the Argies", Weird related that they said. "Bad luck - and good night" followed by heavy bursts of 7.62mm was supposedly the reply from the Paras.
That's what Weird said, at any rate. I remember such appalling stories - even though it was 20 yeras ago.
Stick to selling Vectras, 'Gerry'!
That's what Weird said, at any rate. I remember such appalling stories - even though it was 20 yeras ago.
Stick to selling Vectras, 'Gerry'!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are'nt we rather missing the point here? So the Navy say they have had more air-to-air kills than the RAF - so what - how many bombs have they dropped? But this is not the point. Air power covers all 3 Services - it's about getting the job done. Inter Service rivalry is great (but in public???)
Having read the GQ article, I think that the Navy have done themselves a disservice. It comes across as though the Navy is backward and behind the times. We don't want women,-...gays...- etc. I'm not sure the Navy recruiters will have been happy with article.
I know it is easy to get into to the tactical weeds and start a "I said this..." and "you said that..." pissing contest but the issue is much bigger than that.
A final point point....would the RAF have been happy if GQ had printed an article about an RAF sqn or stn along similar lines???
Having read the GQ article, I think that the Navy have done themselves a disservice. It comes across as though the Navy is backward and behind the times. We don't want women,-...gays...- etc. I'm not sure the Navy recruiters will have been happy with article.
I know it is easy to get into to the tactical weeds and start a "I said this..." and "you said that..." pissing contest but the issue is much bigger than that.
A final point point....would the RAF have been happy if GQ had printed an article about an RAF sqn or stn along similar lines???
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Glorious Devon
Posts: 721
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ARXW
"In 1956 in the Suez campaign the FAA wiped out the EAF on the ground..."
Funny, I always thought that the Venom/Hunter wing at Akrotiri and the Canberras at Nicosia went for the EAF while most FAA sorties were OAS for the RM and army. In point of fact the air campaign started before the carriers were within range of Suez.
"In 1956 in the Suez campaign the FAA wiped out the EAF on the ground..."
Funny, I always thought that the Venom/Hunter wing at Akrotiri and the Canberras at Nicosia went for the EAF while most FAA sorties were OAS for the RM and army. In point of fact the air campaign started before the carriers were within range of Suez.
Flatus,
Sorry I'm only talking from memory here but I do recall reading the number 250 in a FLY NAVY mag....
Even the previously mentioned F/L George Black at the time if I recall correctly, was personally, responsible for something like 8 ground kills. So I may be wrong but I think FAA Seahawk squadrons must have been responsible for a large number of EAF a/c destroyed on the ground.
Sorry I'm only talking from memory here but I do recall reading the number 250 in a FLY NAVY mag....
Even the previously mentioned F/L George Black at the time if I recall correctly, was personally, responsible for something like 8 ground kills. So I may be wrong but I think FAA Seahawk squadrons must have been responsible for a large number of EAF a/c destroyed on the ground.
ARXW,
Thanks for the source. Warren is a good mate of mine and is the living expert on the Korean air war among historians and authors. We've even written a book together (Korea the Air War, published a few years back by Osprey)! I'm sure he wouldn't mind my pointing out that his speciality has been collecting photos from the conflict and in amassing an unequalled 'oral history', having spoken to most of the surviving aces. His interest in the nitty gritty of the statistics (and in foreign participants) is not so intense.
Tourist,
I don't claim to be a WAFU loafer god, like you, but, in point of fact, I have also passed selection as aircrew for one service, inevitable after spending three happy years on a UAS. I made many good friends who went on to serve in the frontline. Surprisingly, these god-like 'self respecting pilots' - and others - do spend time chatting to me. There are a few arrogant tossers who think that they're too grand to talk to mere civilians, but I've encountered mercifully few of them, and I'm convinced that outside your crew room, they're very much of a rarity. And strangely enough, even as a simple journo one is welcomed in many crew rooms (most aircrew are keen to educate and inform, once they realise that you are eager to learn and open to explanation) and one is exposed to many crewrooms in many air arms. And while we may fly only as interested observers, some of us may even have experienced more different military cockpits than you may have. Some may even feel that UAS flying experience and vacation attachments (and successful FHTs, PIFGs or even PFBs in some cases), or PPLs (or in some of my colleagues cases, CPLs) might give some journos some very basic and tenuous insight into what they write about.
But my experience or lack thereof is entirely irrelevant. Even if I was no more than a 'paid spotter', you don't need much flying experience to realise that the unfortunate comment which provoked this thread ("Do you know how many a/c the crabs have shot down since 1945? 2, and they were both British.") was childish, inaccurate and grossly offensive. I don't need to be your equal to have an opinion on this. Ward has let Royal Navy aviators down rather badly with this kind of inane nonsense, and those who have defended him and justified this kind of 'crab bashing' merely compound his original offence.
While saluting all members of the armed forces (whether they qualify for a brevet or not) the comment that: "RAF pilots ... made up less than a quarter of the aircrew and accounted for just over a quarter of the kills" adequately salutes the capability of those who Ward insulted, and does so without casting any aspersion on FAA aviators.
Perhaps it might even be a good note to end on?
Thanks for the source. Warren is a good mate of mine and is the living expert on the Korean air war among historians and authors. We've even written a book together (Korea the Air War, published a few years back by Osprey)! I'm sure he wouldn't mind my pointing out that his speciality has been collecting photos from the conflict and in amassing an unequalled 'oral history', having spoken to most of the surviving aces. His interest in the nitty gritty of the statistics (and in foreign participants) is not so intense.
Tourist,
I don't claim to be a WAFU loafer god, like you, but, in point of fact, I have also passed selection as aircrew for one service, inevitable after spending three happy years on a UAS. I made many good friends who went on to serve in the frontline. Surprisingly, these god-like 'self respecting pilots' - and others - do spend time chatting to me. There are a few arrogant tossers who think that they're too grand to talk to mere civilians, but I've encountered mercifully few of them, and I'm convinced that outside your crew room, they're very much of a rarity. And strangely enough, even as a simple journo one is welcomed in many crew rooms (most aircrew are keen to educate and inform, once they realise that you are eager to learn and open to explanation) and one is exposed to many crewrooms in many air arms. And while we may fly only as interested observers, some of us may even have experienced more different military cockpits than you may have. Some may even feel that UAS flying experience and vacation attachments (and successful FHTs, PIFGs or even PFBs in some cases), or PPLs (or in some of my colleagues cases, CPLs) might give some journos some very basic and tenuous insight into what they write about.
But my experience or lack thereof is entirely irrelevant. Even if I was no more than a 'paid spotter', you don't need much flying experience to realise that the unfortunate comment which provoked this thread ("Do you know how many a/c the crabs have shot down since 1945? 2, and they were both British.") was childish, inaccurate and grossly offensive. I don't need to be your equal to have an opinion on this. Ward has let Royal Navy aviators down rather badly with this kind of inane nonsense, and those who have defended him and justified this kind of 'crab bashing' merely compound his original offence.
While saluting all members of the armed forces (whether they qualify for a brevet or not) the comment that: "RAF pilots ... made up less than a quarter of the aircrew and accounted for just over a quarter of the kills" adequately salutes the capability of those who Ward insulted, and does so without casting any aspersion on FAA aviators.
Perhaps it might even be a good note to end on?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Puken
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having just go back to Blighty and bought myself said mag, I must state my dissapointment with the article.
Under the impression it was an interview thingy like Cosmo's 'Man of the Month', I thought it'd be a balanced piece.
Apologies, therefore, for my first post. I'm sure (knowing Mental) that it was all Tongue-in-cheek, but it doesn't appear on paper like it. I'll take it in the spirit that I'm sure it was meant, not how GQ thought it'd be amusing to portray.
As I said earlier, all brands of the the armed forces are doing some good stuff at the moment, and to me that's what's important
Under the impression it was an interview thingy like Cosmo's 'Man of the Month', I thought it'd be a balanced piece.
Apologies, therefore, for my first post. I'm sure (knowing Mental) that it was all Tongue-in-cheek, but it doesn't appear on paper like it. I'll take it in the spirit that I'm sure it was meant, not how GQ thought it'd be amusing to portray.
As I said earlier, all brands of the the armed forces are doing some good stuff at the moment, and to me that's what's important
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must say that this thread is what it's all about! Anyone who finds it boring will probably have fun reading 'A day in the life of a Rakasan Molecule' by S.H Iteater. However, the banter is a little harsh, and especially coming from types who know the full script of 'A bridge too far' but little else pertaining to the military. It's all a little disconcerting. I have operated with SHAR types on numerous occasions and Pongo FAC'S (though less so) and have to say that they are all tippety-top notch professionals. However,
a. Fish-heads are all batty boys and despite their professionalism, are still queer and therefore.....Shi!e.
b. The FAA are the closest RN asset to a 'real' outfit but are still Shi!e.
c. The Pongos eat Shi!e and are, therefore, Shi!e.
d. RAF peeps are great. Stuff the rest of 'yer (unless we need some help, obviously).
e. .....Colonel whatsyerface.....the SHAR can't deliver LGB'S....It can, however, go up and down and fly short distances. Oh it's got a nice RADAR too, but, It's flown by queers.
a. Fish-heads are all batty boys and despite their professionalism, are still queer and therefore.....Shi!e.
b. The FAA are the closest RN asset to a 'real' outfit but are still Shi!e.
c. The Pongos eat Shi!e and are, therefore, Shi!e.
d. RAF peeps are great. Stuff the rest of 'yer (unless we need some help, obviously).
e. .....Colonel whatsyerface.....the SHAR can't deliver LGB'S....It can, however, go up and down and fly short distances. Oh it's got a nice RADAR too, but, It's flown by queers.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Mr arse,
If you take into consideration our overall superior quality of life, our fantastic terms of service - age 55 for loads and loads of us - the ever increasing inventory of "gucci toys" - all in reasonable working order and not in "mothballs" would you really be surprised to hear we really don't give a hoot.
See 6o'the best item c........harsh but he has a point
And please please please after 10 years as a rotary crewman working on the "plain", NI, Belize etc etc with some superb pongo types, now a happy J mate in wilts, do not try and convince me, or any other "crab" that your job, lifestyle and engagement chances are better than ours....cos they aint
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
If you take into consideration our overall superior quality of life, our fantastic terms of service - age 55 for loads and loads of us - the ever increasing inventory of "gucci toys" - all in reasonable working order and not in "mothballs" would you really be surprised to hear we really don't give a hoot.
See 6o'the best item c........harsh but he has a point
And please please please after 10 years as a rotary crewman working on the "plain", NI, Belize etc etc with some superb pongo types, now a happy J mate in wilts, do not try and convince me, or any other "crab" that your job, lifestyle and engagement chances are better than ours....cos they aint
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sod all this 'how many kills did we/they get' stuff. At the end of the day crabs are all '****ing crabs' (from the day their so-called service was founded on April Fools Day 1918).
"In the Air Force they say that a landing's Ok, if the pilot gets down and can still walk away,
But in the Fleet Air Arm the prospects are grim, if the landing's ****-poor and the pilot can't swim!"
The FAA can always out ****-up and out humour the clip-on tie/plastic shoe/off-the-peg, no-vented suit wearing light blue civilians in uniform.
"In the Air Force they say that a landing's Ok, if the pilot gets down and can still walk away,
But in the Fleet Air Arm the prospects are grim, if the landing's ****-poor and the pilot can't swim!"
The FAA can always out ****-up and out humour the clip-on tie/plastic shoe/off-the-peg, no-vented suit wearing light blue civilians in uniform.
Jacko,
Actually I agree with Farfrompuken in all this - mags like GQ are just dying to bring out a sentence like this one and they certainly tried their best to bring out these RN types as being full of macho Topgun attitude..
I remember another such mag somewhere that had an ex SBS man talking about the SAS and although I don't think that Marine was insulting to the his SAS brethren the mag had as its title something along the lines of : When Marine X joined the SBS he was joining a force where the SAS were considered to be amateurs'....I'd say much more insulting than the above sentence anyway. Still fun though
I would say one way for the SHAR boys to brag would be to publish their exhange ratios against F3 Tornados... The fact that the RAF havent shot more than 1-2 or 15 a/c out of the sky is not really relevant to anything.
Actually I agree with Farfrompuken in all this - mags like GQ are just dying to bring out a sentence like this one and they certainly tried their best to bring out these RN types as being full of macho Topgun attitude..
I remember another such mag somewhere that had an ex SBS man talking about the SAS and although I don't think that Marine was insulting to the his SAS brethren the mag had as its title something along the lines of : When Marine X joined the SBS he was joining a force where the SAS were considered to be amateurs'....I'd say much more insulting than the above sentence anyway. Still fun though
I would say one way for the SHAR boys to brag would be to publish their exhange ratios against F3 Tornados...
The fact that the RAF havent shot more than 1-2 or 15 a/c out of the sky is not really relevant to anything.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
But the F3s aren't the ones being scrapped....
And who's going to end up flying mudmoving GR7/9s.....
Still, you'll always have your memories of the days the FAA flew fighters....
And who's going to end up flying mudmoving GR7/9s.....
Still, you'll always have your memories of the days the FAA flew fighters....
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear All,
I think it's about time we drew a line under this whole subject. Having been there at the time, I can assure you that the two pilots interviewed had been in the bar for some time and GQ had agreed not to publish pilots names or photographs. The moral of the story is this; never speak to journalists (even if they say it is in confidence). Both pilots concerned made the comments "tongue-in-cheek" and this is known as "banter".
I think everyone, whether the uniform is dark or light blue, would agree that the standard required to pass through FJ training is very high - most pilots are in the top 5%. The pilots concerned in this article are both of a very high calibre - you don't fly a single engined dinosaur off a tiny boat in the middle of the sea without being; confident, stupid, both.
Let's stop all the bitching and concentrate on the stuff that really matters. Could be a warm Xmas for some.
Dear ORAC,
Yes the FA2 is being scrapped. Yes it is an out of date airframe. No it can't pull many G. Yes it is the only single seat fighter aircraft in the UK ADR. Yes it does have an arse-kicking radar and missile. Just ask the latest QWI course at 56 Sqdn - they will tell you how good it is. Comment from the chap that runs the NSR ACMI after a recent 6 F3s v 4 FA2s; " I can't believe they are scrapping your aircraft".
It may not be the greatest AD asset - but it is still as good as the F3 - in some cases better.
I think it's about time we drew a line under this whole subject. Having been there at the time, I can assure you that the two pilots interviewed had been in the bar for some time and GQ had agreed not to publish pilots names or photographs. The moral of the story is this; never speak to journalists (even if they say it is in confidence). Both pilots concerned made the comments "tongue-in-cheek" and this is known as "banter".
I think everyone, whether the uniform is dark or light blue, would agree that the standard required to pass through FJ training is very high - most pilots are in the top 5%. The pilots concerned in this article are both of a very high calibre - you don't fly a single engined dinosaur off a tiny boat in the middle of the sea without being; confident, stupid, both.
Let's stop all the bitching and concentrate on the stuff that really matters. Could be a warm Xmas for some.
Dear ORAC,
Yes the FA2 is being scrapped. Yes it is an out of date airframe. No it can't pull many G. Yes it is the only single seat fighter aircraft in the UK ADR. Yes it does have an arse-kicking radar and missile. Just ask the latest QWI course at 56 Sqdn - they will tell you how good it is. Comment from the chap that runs the NSR ACMI after a recent 6 F3s v 4 FA2s; " I can't believe they are scrapping your aircraft".
It may not be the greatest AD asset - but it is still as good as the F3 - in some cases better.
Very well said.
Except..... We're really not all like that, though. Some journos can respect a confidence, whether it's not using a name, or even keeping something as background and scribbling 'not for publication' in our notebook. Just use your judgement, and don't say anything contentious 'til you know a journo well enough to have that sort of judgement.
But if in doubt, say Nowt!
Except..... We're really not all like that, though. Some journos can respect a confidence, whether it's not using a name, or even keeping something as background and scribbling 'not for publication' in our notebook. Just use your judgement, and don't say anything contentious 'til you know a journo well enough to have that sort of judgement.
But if in doubt, say Nowt!
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crabs versus Fishheads
I'll bet there's not too many Fly Navy boys out there that can claim this record:
1947 An RAF Auster over Suffolk shot itself down when Very pistol fired, aircraft caught fire and crashed.
1954 A Harvard (Texan) preparing to take off was hit by a Green Very Light, said aircraft caught fire and was destroyed on the ground. (We just have a way with these things!)
1968 A Lightning from 29 (F) Squadron took out a Jindivik with a Red Top over the Irish Sea.
But just for the record the Crabs lost 20 aircraft on one day 01/02/1946 without any of them being shot down, now you Dark Navy boys beat that!
Read about those 'Bizarre and Tragic Accidents' on the above <WWW>
1947 An RAF Auster over Suffolk shot itself down when Very pistol fired, aircraft caught fire and crashed.
1954 A Harvard (Texan) preparing to take off was hit by a Green Very Light, said aircraft caught fire and was destroyed on the ground. (We just have a way with these things!)
1968 A Lightning from 29 (F) Squadron took out a Jindivik with a Red Top over the Irish Sea.
But just for the record the Crabs lost 20 aircraft on one day 01/02/1946 without any of them being shot down, now you Dark Navy boys beat that!
Read about those 'Bizarre and Tragic Accidents' on the above <WWW>
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: On the edge of reality.
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Banter - I don't think so.
I can't believe I have subjected myself to this thread for 7 pages, but there are some salient points amongst the dick-swinging: ALL journo's are self serving to$$ers, especially those under the impression that being universally hated by the full time mess members of their Officers' Mess for three years qualifies them to comment in any form, particularly combat effectiveness.
I'm a typical fishhead, just got out of the barrel actually, makes your eyes water matron.
Percy, you do smell, but you do the majority of the dying, fair one.
Crabbo, your pay and conditions are magnificent, get rid of the movers and never send me to South Cerney at 0200 again and I will be happier.
If any of you wan't your stockings filled this Christmas (queer WAFU) may I suggest "The RAF Joke Book" available at the FAA Museum. 80 pages absolutely blank - Made me laugh.
I'm a typical fishhead, just got out of the barrel actually, makes your eyes water matron.
Percy, you do smell, but you do the majority of the dying, fair one.
Crabbo, your pay and conditions are magnificent, get rid of the movers and never send me to South Cerney at 0200 again and I will be happier.
If any of you wan't your stockings filled this Christmas (queer WAFU) may I suggest "The RAF Joke Book" available at the FAA Museum. 80 pages absolutely blank - Made me laugh.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 1,360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
22/7.....top post be assured if we in crab land could get rid of the fu@@in movers we would.....done the south cerney thing prior to purple helmet - 9 hours from said place to t/off at bzn.....to~~ers.....however go to the out stations and these guys are the salt of the earth just seems wilts,oxon and akro got the surplus.....ish.......surprisingly the best of the lot are the army whose movers are tops. Ask any loady who he would sooner deal with and the army win hands down.
Why? Because they do the job properly, to the best of their ability and never bull****, which we admire.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
please tell me I have just not written something complimentary about those smelly green things
be assured if we in crab land could get rid of the fu@@in movers we would.....done the south cerney thing prior to purple helmet - 9 hours from said place to t/off at bzn.....to~~ers.....however go to the out stations and these guys are the salt of the earth just seems wilts,oxon and akro got the surplus.....ish.......surprisingly the best of the lot are the army whose movers are tops. Ask any loady who he would sooner deal with and the army win hands down.Why? Because they do the job properly, to the best of their ability and never bull****, which we admire.
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
please tell me I have just not written something complimentary about those smelly green things
Last edited by Always_broken_in_wilts; 23rd Nov 2002 at 00:10.
22/7
You make me laugh, too. But not in a way I'm proud of, 'cos I know I shouldn't laugh at the afflicted, and that I really should feel sorry for you.
This thread started with a serious point, what a shame you choose to ignore it and merely grind on with the tedious and counter-productive crab-bashing.
A productive post like yours certainly strengthens any claims you have of a 'greater qualification to comment' on anything intelligent.
But at least journo bashing is something most of us can agree on, so well done for raising that, and knocking UAS chaps is great sport for anyone who was too thick for University, so jolly well done there, too. What a witty chap you are. A shining wit, no doubt. And then you raise the crab book of jokes, Mrs Miggins tea shop, and 'all journos are to$$ers' - you really must stop before I do myself an injury.
You make me laugh, too. But not in a way I'm proud of, 'cos I know I shouldn't laugh at the afflicted, and that I really should feel sorry for you.
This thread started with a serious point, what a shame you choose to ignore it and merely grind on with the tedious and counter-productive crab-bashing.
A productive post like yours certainly strengthens any claims you have of a 'greater qualification to comment' on anything intelligent.
But at least journo bashing is something most of us can agree on, so well done for raising that, and knocking UAS chaps is great sport for anyone who was too thick for University, so jolly well done there, too. What a witty chap you are. A shining wit, no doubt. And then you raise the crab book of jokes, Mrs Miggins tea shop, and 'all journos are to$$ers' - you really must stop before I do myself an injury.
