China recruits former British military pilots
Events have shown what happens when we turn a blind eye to the actions of immoral nations like Russia and China. Their immoral governments become emboldened, and will turn on us in their pursuit of conquest - either a short game like Russia, or long game like China.
We are in the final stages of resetting the relationship with Russia - we've been forced into it, but the strategy for China is unclear. I hope the governments of the free world quickly develop a strategy for extricating us from Chinese influence before its too late and our children pay the price. It needs to happen NOW...not tomorrow. It will be painful, but necessary to prevent greater suffering down the road.
I find the actions of those ex-military pilots very difficult to justify.
We are in the final stages of resetting the relationship with Russia - we've been forced into it, but the strategy for China is unclear. I hope the governments of the free world quickly develop a strategy for extricating us from Chinese influence before its too late and our children pay the price. It needs to happen NOW...not tomorrow. It will be painful, but necessary to prevent greater suffering down the road.
I find the actions of those ex-military pilots very difficult to justify.
I hope the governments of the free world quickly develop a strategy for extricating us from Chinese influence before its too late and our children pay the price. t needs to happen NOW...not tomorrow. It will be painful, but necessary to prevent greater suffering down the road.
I find the actions of those ex-military pilots very difficult to justify.
Insofar as the charge of "mercenaries" being bandied about in this thread:
Over the past two decades no few of my associates, ex-mil, both rotary and fixed wing, hired out to contractors doing various sorts of operations in active war zones (Iraq and Afghanistan in the main).
This includes a couple of guys I know who were employed by the infamous/notorious "dark fluid" company.
In each case where I got a chance to talk with them, their observation to me (after they'd spent a few years and decided to move on while still breathing) was
"Great money, high risk"
I realize that these situations are not identical, but there are some similarities.
Given my long term distaste for the regime in China, I'd hope that folks would not support them.
As to the canary in the coal mine: wasn't the Huawei 5G thing a wake up call for some governments?
As far as contributing to China's rise every country that has imported products from China has done so. It is capitalism which is about money which is hypocritical when pointing out a few that grab the golden coin.
Former French Mirage 2000 pilots have been in China for a decade. They are not at elementary flying units they are at fighter squadrons. The sad irony is, and the details easily researchable, Taiwanese pilots have been on exchange programs with the French. One pilot killed in 2012.
Any RAAF pilots there are mugs. Our P-8 operations in the South China Sea are becoming high risk as the PLA Is using sanctioned and calculated aggression that could well go a step further. Shooting down a RAAF aircraft would be escalation to a level of risk, below doing so to a USN Poseidon. We also have Australians permanently detained in China. Detention of former Western military personal easily fabricated- as is going on with a number of our citizens. I’m so surprised that any Australians would be there?
Any RAAF pilots there are mugs. Our P-8 operations in the South China Sea are becoming high risk as the PLA Is using sanctioned and calculated aggression that could well go a step further. Shooting down a RAAF aircraft would be escalation to a level of risk, below doing so to a USN Poseidon. We also have Australians permanently detained in China. Detention of former Western military personal easily fabricated- as is going on with a number of our citizens. I’m so surprised that any Australians would be there?
Despite the earlier poster saying `you do realise many serving military people go there on holidays' I wonder how many currently serving F-35, Super Hornet pilots, or people with currency on the latest BVR techniques, weaponry etc. are on holidays there, or actually helping train PRC fast jet pilots.
And if they, and are working on the mainland, or sunning themselves in Hainan at the moment - they're fools of the highest order.
China's not the enemy? Sure, we're not at war but come-on, how naive.
I can’t see there being an unseemly rush amongst the pilot fraternity ( nor can their families be that desperate) to vacation in the PRC. Unless you’re in to BDSM ,enjoy quarantine conditions and prefer your leisure activities wearing a mask.
As to the delights of Hainan, the “ Hawaii of Asia”, appalling weather, pollution to match, and one great big construction site. Like much of the rest of the country really.
As to the delights of Hainan, the “ Hawaii of Asia”, appalling weather, pollution to match, and one great big construction site. Like much of the rest of the country really.
Possible promotion to 10 Downing Street?
Don’t know if someone has already posted this story.
“It’s Deja Vu all over again!” to quote Yogi Berra of US baseball fame who was famoius for his “yogi-isms”.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval...naval-aviation
“It’s Deja Vu all over again!” to quote Yogi Berra of US baseball fame who was famoius for his “yogi-isms”.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval...naval-aviation
May I humbly suggest that all those outraged posters take a few minutes to research treason, the OSA and whether or not China is indeed an "enemy" before you jump to your (mostly inaccurate) assumptions?
Here in Oz, the Shadow Defence Minister (Andrew Hastie, a veteran and former SAS Capt) has claimed that two RAAF fighter pilots were approached but allegedly rejected the offer. I hope, indeed am sure, this will remain the case. If any of my ex-RAF FJ colleagues were so naive to have been tempted by promises of beaucoup renmibi, they should reconsider their own morals, and the unjust authoritarian and aggressive regime they would serve - what are the outcomes being planned by the PLA, and what is the real Chinese endgame.
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Here in Oz, the Shadow Defence Minister (Andrew Hastie, a veteran and former SAS Capt) has claimed that two RAAF fighter pilots were approached but allegedly rejected the offer. I hope, indeed am sure, this will remain the case. If any of my ex-RAF FJ colleagues were so naive to have been tempted by promises of beaucoup renmibi, they should reconsider their own morals, and the unjust authoritarian and aggressive regime they would serve - what are the outcomes being planned by the PLA, and what is the real Chinese endgame.
Here in Oz, the Shadow Defence Minister (Andrew Hastie, a veteran and former SAS Capt) has claimed that two RAAF fighter pilots were approached but allegedly rejected the offer. I hope, indeed am sure, this will remain the case. If any of my ex-RAF FJ colleagues were so naive to have been tempted by promises of beaucoup renmibi, they should reconsider their own morals, and the unjust authoritarian and aggressive regime they would serve - what are the outcomes being planned by the PLA, and what is the real Chinese endgame.
From the Roman Empire, Ottoman, Napolean, to Hitler and colonisation, conquering the world each "established" country has tried to expand its influence for economic gain, either through invasion, investment or economic influence. Even the "young " US with its isolation stand prior to WW11 has become a modern version of colonisation. The new banner of in protection of our interest to liberating the downtrodden does not ring as clear as being under the flag of defending your country. Just what is an enemy? Conventional warfare is expensive. The money spent on warfare could easily buy most countries and if not own them through stocks/shares, companies, and real estate.
So, on that who is the enemy? Invading makes it easy to identify, investing not quite so. I am not disagreeing with you that China is a threat and a military one at that, but we have internal threats as well with a main one being those in power using our military personal to protect or expand their own interests. Asking what China's endgame is rhetorical. It is world domination. Whether through military might or economic power becomes a moot point. As stated, this has been reflected through history in invasion, colonisation or economic power (East Indian Trading Company being a prime example). History repeating itself?
Finestkind
OK, going off topic into the History of the World Volume I.
I have not queried that, and am proud of my service.
Boy, don't tell the Yanks that! The US rallied against European/Brit colonisation post-WWII for nearly two decades, probably justifiably. However, the US later did get bogged down in SVN, ME and Stan extending their initial concepts from support and short shock-and-awe conflicts into endless occupation with no credible endstate and no out clause.
Agree, yes it is world domination - and China has always played the long game. When you visit China, they love to talk of 5,000 years of history. And they build infrastructure (I saw flyovers out in the countryside) that would join with motorways to be built in 10-20 years time. They are building power stations at an incredible rate, and will have long-term power as we in the West continue with our madness pursuing green solar panels and windmills (built in China of course). They truly look beyond our Western 3-4 year election cycle.
However, I don't agree with your retrospective view of history - invasion and colonisation. It was what it was, we can't go back, but this was progress - and we can argue whether for better or worse - that without that history and the Industrial Revolution, we would never have reached the pinocle of civilisation that the Western era has given. And that level of world stabilisation allowed, for instance, international dialogue between nations, security pacts, trade agreements, and the eventual decolonising of large parts of continents. But back on topic, I don't think Chinese hegemony will produce such a balanced and fair outcome.
cheers
OK, going off topic into the History of the World Volume I.
Asking what China's endgame is rhetorical. It is world domination. Whether through military might or economic power becomes a moot point. As stated, this has been reflected through history in invasion, colonisation or economic power (East Indian Trading Company being a prime example). History repeating itself?.
However, I don't agree with your retrospective view of history - invasion and colonisation. It was what it was, we can't go back, but this was progress - and we can argue whether for better or worse - that without that history and the Industrial Revolution, we would never have reached the pinocle of civilisation that the Western era has given. And that level of world stabilisation allowed, for instance, international dialogue between nations, security pacts, trade agreements, and the eventual decolonising of large parts of continents. But back on topic, I don't think Chinese hegemony will produce such a balanced and fair outcome.
cheers
Last edited by BBadanov; 22nd Oct 2022 at 04:28. Reason: sp
BBadanov.
History of the World Part 1 , Mel Brooks. Probably sums up the world very well.
I think we agree in essence. Yes China looks well beyond the 3-to-4-year cycle of democratic power as does most autocratic nations. This in itself leads to another post on why democracy is a suicidal path.
Going off topic again. In respect to the level of world stabilisation with the advent of the industrial era I would say just shifted the stage from local area of trade agreements, pacts etc to the world platform. And that I guess is the nub of my posts. To demonise those that take the offered gold coin is exactly the same as trade agreements (lose of a countries ability to be self-sufficient), security pacts (which only work if the pact remains relevant to those that will step in otherwise best of luck) etc..
History of the World Part 1 , Mel Brooks. Probably sums up the world very well.
I think we agree in essence. Yes China looks well beyond the 3-to-4-year cycle of democratic power as does most autocratic nations. This in itself leads to another post on why democracy is a suicidal path.
Going off topic again. In respect to the level of world stabilisation with the advent of the industrial era I would say just shifted the stage from local area of trade agreements, pacts etc to the world platform. And that I guess is the nub of my posts. To demonise those that take the offered gold coin is exactly the same as trade agreements (lose of a countries ability to be self-sufficient), security pacts (which only work if the pact remains relevant to those that will step in otherwise best of luck) etc..
Chinese autocracy cost thousands of lives worldwide by suppressing the start of the Wuhan C-19 Epidemic. They even jailed the doctor who raised the alarm and who subsequently "died" at age 33.
No thanks.
"If you do not see China as an 'enemy', in Australia - a lot closer to the potential action - we do definitely see China as the dominant adversary. "
But you still sell them as much as you can? I was in Australia recently and all I heard were people moaning that the Chinese were cutting their imports of Australian goods etc
But you still sell them as much as you can? I was in Australia recently and all I heard were people moaning that the Chinese were cutting their imports of Australian goods etc
Ex-RAF top gun (call sign Hooligan) has made a killing training China's fighter pilots - and helped recruit dozens of British airmen paid £250,000 a year by Beijing... so why has the MoD only just woken up to this outrage?
Can someone please explain why he would do this?
' . . . in 2019 a former RAF pilot, who was then working for British Aerospace, approached UK intelligence officials to ask if he could hold onto his security clearances — which granted him access to classified information — should he take up a training position with China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA).'
I won't get into the moral issues, but merely reflect on the times we have allowed, in fact encouraged, companies to simultaneously contract China for kit we are developing, benefiting from shared costs. I don't suppose many who flew Nimrod, Sea King, Lynx, Sea Harrier, Merlin were aware. But the guys in China at the moment might recognise a few things!
Remember all the warnings given about Russia? The ones that were ignored until it was too late.
The warnings are now directed at China. Shall we stick our heads in the sand again?
The warnings are now directed at China. Shall we stick our heads in the sand again?
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The thought of the UK and Allied defence industry being so poor and lacking in opportunities that ex Fast Jet instructors would go and work in South Africa for the CCP Chinese makes the stomach turn
what a disappointing situation if true. The irony that some of the old guard wouldn’t join BALPA because Unions were a nod to communism
what a disappointing situation if true. The irony that some of the old guard wouldn’t join BALPA because Unions were a nod to communism
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