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China recruits former British military pilots

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China recruits former British military pilots

Old 20th Oct 2022, 04:31
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Somewhat unbelievable about the talk of traitors and loyalty from such a country as England. Mired in a history of civil wars to royalty that sided with Hitler. Politicians that make decisions for the betterment of the country while more for the betterment of themselves. Decrying those that take the golden coin offered by a country by pointing out the horrendous human rights violations of those countries even while their history rivals such atrocities. Today's enemies', tomorrows trading partners which is all about the golden coin.
What is a traitor. Someone that sells state secrets, technology etc or someone who buys the products of another country. Loyalty to what? A country that is willing to place your life on the line but not willing to allow you to live a normal life due to poor wages and conditions or little assistance for lifelong injuries. True loyalty is found by those that have been on operations and that is the people that have placed their lives in the hands of their fellow members.
The world revolves around power and money is power. How many times has a government sold out the sacrifice of their military people under the auspice of for "the greater good" meaning they keep the power and profits.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 06:26
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
Absolutely spot on.

It's shocking the naivety some posters are displaying on this thread, only made worse by those justifying the actions of these ex-British military personnel in purely financial terms.

Whether something counts as "giving succour to a potential enemy' is not measured by feeling of being hard done by financially. Seeing fellow serving/ex-serving military personnel trying to justify these actions based purely in financial terms is quite uncomfortable reading.

Lest it just be glossed over again I feel it needs reiterating; the skills/experience these ex-military personnel are passing onto the military of a totalitarian state, with a history of genocide and expansionist aspirations, could/will be used against the UK and its allies.

Still, 30 pieces of silver is 30 pieces of silver, eh?
Lest it just be glossed over again I feel it needs reiterating; the skills/experience these ex-military personnel are passing onto the military of a totalitarian state, with a history of genocide and expansionist aspirations?

are you referring to UK or China here? Asking for a friend, obvs…
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 07:26
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by fokker1000
I have mixed views....

First of all is national/global security.

Second OSA,

Third if you want to use the skills that the tax payer funded you through, and you really enjoyed doing, then pay your training "bond" back to us the tax payer. Plus interest. What's that for a current Typhoon? £500K.

Forth, When you took your commission and swore your allegiance to the crown presumably you had a half decent dose of morals.

Having said that, I have flown with so many mil and ex mil people over the decades, SOME are totally driven my the cash. If I'm honest there is one branch that had worked out their allowances before we'd pushed back of stand.

I feel for all the very decent serving crew. You have my respect.

FK10
Since about 40% of the country lean to a republican stance then it stands to reason that about that many just say the oath and forget about it.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 08:31
  #204 (permalink)  

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Third if you want to use the skills that the tax payer funded you through, and you really enjoyed doing, then pay your training "bond" back to us the tax payer. Plus interest. What's that for a current Typhoon? £500K.
So, you too have a price!
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 08:51
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Originally Posted by fokker1000
I have mixed views....

Forth, When you took your commission and swore your allegiance to the crown presumably you had a half decent dose of morals.

FK10
Steve "hard man of brexit" Baker MP was an RAF Officer so morals don't really come into it.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 09:01
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst
Since about 40% of the country lean to a republican stance then it stands to reason that about that many just say the oath and forget about it.
Closer to 20% and maybe as low as 13%. There are the normal ‘fence sitter’ that are undecided that make up about another 15-20%. Solid Royalists are 60-70% depending on the poll. Seems fairly convincing that Royalists in the UK are far more popular than some would have us believe…

Oh, and just because you are a Republican doesn’t mean that you hate your country, its people and what it stands for…
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 09:04
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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with a history of genocide and expansionist aspirations?

are you referring to UK or China here? Asking for a friend, obvs…

good shot!
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 09:11
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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The MOD must have known about this story for YEARS!

A salary of £250k a year would NOT be offered for basic instruction!

So WHY did they NOT give the pilots involved CLEAR advise on whether they were breaking the Official Secrets act and liable to prosecution on return ?

NO advise is implicitly giving the GREEN light?
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 09:51
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet
Closer to 20% and maybe as low as 13%. There are the normal ‘fence sitter’ that are undecided that make up about another 15-20%. Solid Royalists are 60-70% depending on the poll. Seems fairly convincing that Royalists in the UK are far more popular than some would have us believe…

Oh, and just because you are a Republican doesn’t mean that you hate your country, its people and what it stands for…
Don't hate the country, the people, or want it stands for. Could care a less about all three. Don’t give it a thought.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 10:59
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man
Are you familiar with the working schedule these guys are on? If it’s equal time or similar, then yes it will be tough to claim exemption from tax on foreign earnings, but if basically full time and accompanied I think not.
Then, with respect, you need a good tax lawyer, who KNOWS the rules, such as we have used because of my wife’s domicility. The situation is complex and getting it wrong can prove expensive, very expensive. I doubt, but don't know, if there is a reciprocal agreement with China on tax as there is with Australia.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:28
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Surely this is tantamount to treason. Working for the enemy.
Who will they prostitute themselves to next next? Russia?
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:47
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Back in July the heads of MI5 and FBI identified China as the "biggest long-term threat to our economic and national security". Yet some ex-service folks think its still fine to use their skills to provide military training to the Chinese air force - and claim its the RAF's fault for not paying big enough pensions. And anyway - ex-mil from other countries are at it as well - so that's allright. The other justification I quite liked was that China was a long way-away from the UK and was therefore not likely to be squaring up to us anytime soon. Unless of course Taiwan goes t*ts-up and we have to send an aircraft carrier - but that's the Navy so no need to worry I suppose. Interesting times.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:48
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RichardJones
Surely this is tantamount to treason. Working for the enemy.
Who will they prostitute themselves to next next? Russia?
Indeed.

Officially Russia aren't our "enemy" at the moment, but would all those supporting these pilots helping improve the flying and fighting ability of the Chinese military also be in favour of said pilots traveling a bit to the NW and mucking in to help that "non enemy" too?

I believe Russia has substantial silver deposits too from which they could also draw 30 pieces.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 11:54
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by redsetter
Back in July the heads of MI5 and FBI identified China as the "biggest long-term threat to our economic and national security". Yet some ex-service folks think its still fine to use their skills to provide military training to the Chinese air force - and claim its the RAF's fault for not paying big enough pensions. And anyway - ex-mil from other countries are at it as well - so that's allright. The other justification I liked was that China was a long way-away from the UK was therefore not likely to be squaring up to us anytime soon. Unless of course Taiwan goes t*ts-up and we have to send an aircraft carrier - but that's the Navy so no need to worry I suppose. Interesting times.
China are also a very real threat to Australia too, a country that we not only have a historic bond to and are a member of The Commonwealth, but they're also a member of AUKUS and 5 Eyes alliances with the UK.

And these 'poor', put upon ex-military pilots decide to help China develop into an even bigger threat to Australia's back yard.

With friends like these...
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:05
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
The MOD must have known about this story for YEARS!

A salary of £250k a year would NOT be offered for basic instruction!

So WHY did they NOT give the pilots involved CLEAR advise on whether they were breaking the Official Secrets act and liable to prosecution on return ?

NO advise is implicitly giving the GREEN light?
FYI, I know several people working in the M.E. teaching basic instruction, for this figure and more. Tax Free.

Tripling or even quadrupling an RAF pilot salary for basic instruction is not difficult.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:23
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Baldeep

£250 k!

wow I missed out big time!
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:27
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Conducted myself a little COVID lateral flow test, this morning. Tests provided by NHS Test & Trace, manufactured in China. Our homes are full of their gear and our critical national infrastructure is funded by them. I wouldn’t trust China to far end of my kitchen table and I certainly wouldn’t work there for £250,000 but it strikes me that somebody a little farther up the food-chain needs to get their own priorities sorted before throwing mud at these pilots.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 12:51
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.businessinsider.co.za/tf...reason-2022-10
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 13:41
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by finestkind
Somewhat unbelievable about the talk of traitors and loyalty from such a country as England. Mired in a history of civil wars to royalty that sided with Hitler. Politicians that make decisions for the betterment of the country while more for the betterment of themselves. Decrying those that take the golden coin offered by a country by pointing out the horrendous human rights violations of those countries even while their history rivals such atrocities. Today's enemies', tomorrows trading partners which is all about the golden coin.
What is a traitor. Someone that sells state secrets, technology etc or someone who buys the products of another country. Loyalty to what? A country that is willing to place your life on the line but not willing to allow you to live a normal life due to poor wages and conditions or little assistance for lifelong injuries. True loyalty is found by those that have been on operations and that is the people that have placed their lives in the hands of their fellow members.
The world revolves around power and money is power. How many times has a government sold out the sacrifice of their military people under the auspice of for "the greater good" meaning they keep the power and profits.
The question should not be about the rights or wrongs of comparatively lowly ranked officers selling their skills to a foreign power. It should be about those in government, politics, industry, business, education etc who facilitated the rise of China to the extent that those job offers can and have been made.
In my country our economy depends on China, our electrical grid depends on China, much prime agricultural land is owned by China, our university system depends on China. China has a 99 year lease on a strategically important northern port. We have graduated Chinese university students in all the disciplines necessary to build a strong aggressive military -nuclear, conventional, biological and cyber. Its seems that the Confucious institutes run our universities. We could not defend ourselves against even a moderate threat. No need for a military threat anyway, blockade the sea routes with submarines and shutdown our electricity grid, with no significant strategic fuel reserve we would be a basket case in a few weeks. We have Chinese police operating in the country, intimidating immigrants, from China, by threatening repercussions against family still resident in China. We, as a sovereign nation, are under threat to reform and respond to a 14 point demand, from China, before "normal' relations can resume. None of this is the result of comparatively low rank ex-military officers training Chinese fighter pilots.
Every citizen of our country has contributed, in some way to the rise of China and the threat to our country. The actions of a handful of comparatively low ranking fast jet, missile fodder, instructors is the least of our problems.
I will not be surprised if our iron ore exports, to China, are eventually returned, value added, as red hot steel.

Last edited by zzuf; 20th Oct 2022 at 14:33.
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Old 20th Oct 2022, 14:06
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zzuf
I will not be surprised if our iron ore exports, to China, are eventually returned, value added, as red hot steel.
I am reminded of something my dad shared with me when I was young along similar line. The bottom line was that the US sold quite a bit of scrap metal to Japan in the 1930's, some of which came back to us as bombs at Pearl Harbor and Midway ...
@Grimweasel: Thanks for that link to the response from that training school in South Africa.
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