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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 17th Feb 2023, 08:13
  #14681 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Old-Duffer
UXB,
I think you mean Admiral Graf Spee - Scharnhorst was not at the River Plate action in 1939 (although I'm not sure about the action in 1914 off the Falklands but that's a different ship)
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Yes, that one.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 11:33
  #14682 (permalink)  
 
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Her death comes just days after Major General Vladimir Makarov, recently fired by Russian President Vladimir Putin, was found dead in a suspected suicide outside of Moscow.

Colonel Vadim Boiko, 44, deputy head of the Makarov Pacific Higher Naval School in Vladivostok, Russia, was found dead on November 16 from multiple gunshot wounds.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 11:56
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That's a determind suicide
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:01
  #14684 (permalink)  
 
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Reminiscent of Rommel towards the end of that excellent b&w film 'The Desert Fox: The Story of Rommel', where the Gestapo made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:03
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I have to say that I am becoming confused. Are these people pro Putin, anti Putin, or simply terribly careless! Joking apart, what are we to make of all these "suicides"?
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:08
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Originally Posted by FUMR
I have to say that I am becoming confused. Are these people pro Putin, anti Putin, or simply terribly careless! Joking apart, what are we to make of all these "suicides"?
Probably they represent all of the aforementioned people groups, the connecting factor being that for some reason they just were considered a threat by Putin.
Obvious take is that windows in Russia are especially dangerous.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:09
  #14687 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FUMR
I have to say that I am becoming confused. Are these people pro Putin, anti Putin, or simply terribly careless! Joking apart, what are we to make of all these "suicides"?
I don't think it matters if you are pro or anti Putin ...more if he is pro / anti you!
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 12:42
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix
Reminiscent of Rommel towards the end of that excellent b&w film 'The Desert Fox: The Story of Rommel', where the Gestapo made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
Or "The Sum of all Fears" where the Russian Officer is running through the snowy forest chased by a couple of guys that empty their mags into him.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 13:05
  #14689 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by uffington sb
SOPS.

See post 14649.
Thanks…I just saw it on my news feed this morning.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 13:12
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Originally Posted by 622
I don't think it matters if you are pro or anti Putin ...more if he is pro / anti you!
That seems to sum it up - we are probably seeing the results of internecine warfare between various factions. Putin's Russia has long been described as a gangster state, and in that context this method of settling differences is entirely normal. What is less easy to understand is how anyone thinks Ukraine (or anyone else) could usefully negotiate agreements with a state that uses murder as a tool of government. And yet we have to somehow share the planet with these people, knowing that it is vanishingly unlikely that when Putin goes his replacement will be able to change things for the better - even if he wants to. The link in Post No. 14677 gives little hope.

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Old 17th Feb 2023, 13:30
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Originally Posted by 622
I don't think it matters if you are pro or anti Putin ...more if he is pro / anti you!
Even of that I'm not so sure. Having read also the attempted conspiracy by Kadyrov/Prigozhin/Surovikin there are probably so many power struggles ongoing within the 'inner circle' that it could be easily any other of that circle considering someone an impediment for their own aspirations. Shark tank springs to mind.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 13:53
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Originally Posted by albatross


MINOR RANT
As an aside I think that with all the $$$$$++++++ NATO has spent on defence that when push comes to shove and we don’t have huge supplies of ammunition is blatant incompetence. 2 years to produce more? Good gawd what was the plan if NATO itself had been attacked? Go ugly (nuclear) early?
!
The shortage of smart weapons was discussed and know decades ago.
The plan was to ignore the problem
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 14:02
  #14693 (permalink)  
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what was the plan if NATO itself had been attacked? Go ugly (nuclear) early?
We’ll if you mean throughout the Cold War until the fall of the Wall and the demise of the WP - yes.

Every exercise and plan involved a fighting retreat back to the Channel using the war stocks at hand and going nuclear around day 3.

It should be noted that the NATO nations still have the vast majority of their own war stocks, more than enough to finish off the remainder of the Russian armed forces. They just won’t give them to Ukraine in case they’re needed.

Though who else they might be needed against nobody quite seems able to explain.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 14:35
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Originally Posted by ORAC
We’ll if you mean throughout the Cold War until the fall of the Wall and the demise of the WP - yes.
Every exercise and plan involved a fighting retreat back to the Channel using the war stocks at hand and going nuclear around day 3.
Although with what we learned after the fall of the Iron Curtain and with what we have seen in Ukraine lately I have some doubts it would have worked that way for the WP. They can't supply 2000 tanks and 100.000 Troops anything above 50 miles beyond their door step. How would they have kept 20.000 Tanks and millions of soldiers hundreds of kilometers away from home and 1000km from their wide- gauge railheads happy and fed??? And how would the following tank columns and escpecially their road- bound fuel bowsers have passed the first 10.000 burning tank wrecks in the narrow and hilly Fulda Gap? How would they have prevented the scarce and road- bound fuel bowsers being among the burning wrecks? A tank that has run out of fuel is quite awkward to be pushed forward by its only 3 man crew. etc...
The more I see the more ridiculous the scenarios that were played through do appear in hindisght.

Last edited by henra; 17th Feb 2023 at 14:58.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 16:34
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Originally Posted by ORAC
We’ll if you mean throughout the Cold War until the fall of the Wall and the demise of the WP - yes.

Every exercise and plan involved a fighting retreat back to the Channel using the war stocks at hand and going nuclear around day 3.
.
That is indeed how most exercises went, but I always thought that was because they started on a Monday morning and had to be over in time for a debrief before happy hour!
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 18:00
  #14696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Timelord
That is indeed how most exercises went, but I always thought that was because they started on a Monday morning and had to be over in time for a debrief before happy hour!
I though it was to do with the ration stocks available.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 18:29
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Hmmmm Banjo’s

ok Back on Subject.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 19:48
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Originally Posted by Timelord
That is indeed how most exercises went, but I always thought that was because they started on a Monday morning and had to be over in time for a debrief before happy hour!
Sorry, cannot resist:

New SACEUR........."Heads of Branch Meeting 0900 every Monday!"

"Oh sir, that buggers the weekend!"

C in C "OK, make that 1500 on Fridays!" "Oh sir, that buggers the weekend!"

C in C "OK, 1300 on Wednesdays!" "Oh sir, that buggers both weekends!"

Last edited by langleybaston; 17th Feb 2023 at 20:57.
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Old 17th Feb 2023, 22:44
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Close quarters combat in the trenches. Warning contains graphic scenes.

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Old 17th Feb 2023, 23:18
  #14700 (permalink)  
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Russian Z-bloggers are losing faith in the offensive and winning the war

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...547634689.html
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