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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 1st Jan 2023, 10:20
  #13021 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Having had a few sherbert’s tonight to celebrate in the New Year, I bare a thought for those guys and gals standing watch in a frozen wasteland in Ukraine, under fire and constant shelling, while the rest of the world celebrates in the freedom they are fighting to protect FOR ALL OF US…

My hopes, wishes and prayers go out to you all to stay safe and warm and hope that 2023 will bring you the freedom and peace you so richly deserve, that your families will be reunited and will prosper in a free Ukraine as a member of the European Union and of NATO you so richly aim for and deserve.

Slava Ukraine.
My sentiments too Nutty and I said as much to all I sent my New Year wishes too. I had no interest in celebrating this year!
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 10:54
  #13022 (permalink)  
 
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Thinking also of the poor Russian troops who are also suffering and dying at the sole behest of their mad leader !

All the best for '23 !

El Grifo
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 11:14
  #13023 (permalink)  
 
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Goes with or without saying, but fully agreed.

Tens of thousands of the first flush were not actually ethnic 'Russians' but all of them were and their successors now are exposed to merciless crushing under the giant wheels of this hellish machine, which advances with some lofty Putinesque logic, the logic of savage, pre-modern, primeval war.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 11:16
  #13024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by El Grifo
Thinking also of the poor Russian troops who are also suffering and dying at the sole behest of their mad leader !

All the best for '23 !

El Grifo
Those poor Russian troops you mention, have had plenty of time to defect, surrender, cross the border, reject orders, desert, scarper.
They haven't.
They have continued this war because they are dumb, murderous self righteous bar-stewards who believe the manure they are being fed and Russia is the great empire under threat.

I personally hope to a man they are ploughed into the fields of Ukraine by the HIMARS, MLRS, AS90 and the APCs and Tanks the West now surely need to give.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:02
  #13025 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey
Those poor Russian troops you mention, have had plenty of time to defect, surrender, cross the border, reject orders, desert, scarper. They haven't. They have continued this war because they are dumb, murderous self righteous bar-stewards who believe the manure they are being fed and Russia is the great empire under threat. I personally hope to a man they are ploughed into the fields of Ukraine by the HIMARS, MLRS, AS90 and the APCs and Tanks the West now surely need to give.
I second that, and would make a special mention of the Wagner thugs - surely Putin's version of the SS.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:07
  #13026 (permalink)  
 
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This is how it looks like when a HEAT warhead is mounted on very fast drone and flown into a trench shelter.

scary stuff from infantry POV.


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Old 1st Jan 2023, 12:38
  #13027 (permalink)  
 
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Humanity.

Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey
Those poor Russian troops you mention, have had plenty of time to defect, surrender, cross the border, reject orders, desert, scarper.
They haven't.
Would that it were so simple; those troops may have families, whom may be left behind to be punished by the state. Those who need to surrender are the leaders of the state.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 14:03
  #13028 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nevillestyke
Would that it were so simple; those troops may have families, whom may be left behind to be punished by the state. Those who need to surrender are the leaders of the state.
Much the same could be said of those called up for the Wehrmacht and who invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. Many war crimes were committed by them, especially when they were given a free pass to do so from the Fuhrer himself. We are all responsible for our actions, particularly when issued with illegal orders. Of course, failure to comply leads to unpleasant consequences. Tough, that's what comes of electing people like Putin and Hitler into power. The Ukraine is fighting Russia, not Putin. In WWII we were fighting Germany, not Hitler, not the Nazis, but Germany. The 'leaders of the state' will never surrender, nor for that matter will Russia. It simply needs to withdraw completely from all occupied Ukrainian territory and stay behind its own borders. All countries that share that border need to seriously contemplate their own security and enter into common defence treaties with others facing this rogue state
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 15:07
  #13029 (permalink)  
 
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Countering loitering munitions. Apparently the nets are worth using.


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Old 1st Jan 2023, 15:14
  #13030 (permalink)  
 
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Santa's been busy this christmas.
Just wondering the type of chaff Rudolph is releasing.


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Old 1st Jan 2023, 15:34
  #13031 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Spunky Monkey
Those poor Russian troops you mention, have had plenty of time..
We've touched the word poor before in this context, perhaps godforsaken is a better fit.

The Lord of Heavens weeps what this breed brought onto themselves if either by wrong action or non-action.

To be the winners standing after the other party gets defeated, losing the human part and compassion needs to be avoided. Yet still, fear from actual warfare over one's doorstep will preclude that easily and the defender cannot allow diluting his resolve. The paradox has no solution.


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Old 1st Jan 2023, 15:56
  #13032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by El Grifo
Thinking also of the poor Russian troops who are also suffering and dying at the sole behest of their mad leader !

All the best for '23 !

El Grifo
Go tell that to the survivors of Bucha.

Those “poor” Russian troops were the ones that carried out the atrocities of rape and murder of women and children, the order may have come from on high, but they are the ones that carried it out.

They have a choice, die in Ukraine or return home and exact a change on their command structure, they are equally to blame and equally must bear that responsibility.

Remember, being ordered to do it is NO EXCUSE, just as it was after WW2.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 16:03
  #13033 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beamr
Countering loitering munitions. Apparently the nets are worth using.

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/...85045440995329

That comes from the Ukrainian T72 hit by two loitering munitions, they were caught up in / snagged by the camouflage netting and failed to detonate.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 16:30
  #13034 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Go tell that to the survivors of Bucha.

Those “poor” Russian troops were the ones that carried out the atrocities of rape and murder of women and children, the order may have come from on high, but they are the ones that carried it out.

They have a choice, die in Ukraine or return home and exact a change on their command structure, they are equally to blame and equally must bear that responsibility.

Remember, being ordered to do it is NO EXCUSE, just as it was after WW2.
Well said. No pity for the pitiless, there is a barbaric streak running through the nation which manifests itself every generation or so.
My red line was reading of the exhumation of the body of a 7 year old girl with seven different DNA rapes. Animals, and those less wicked appear to condone or tolerate them.
Let them fertilise the soil of Ukraine.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 16:49
  #13035 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing new about Russian barbarism. Their troops have behaved like this since long before the Soviet Union. Raping, murder and thieving is an inherent part of the Russian forces psyche, it's not something new that Putin has encouraged. The troops themselves get beaten and murdered by their commanders, violence and brutality is just part and parcel of the Russian military.

Look at Stalin's tactics during WWII. Same approach, including using troops as cannon fodder as an accepted means of reconnaissance. Commanders send troops in over a wide front and those that get slaughtered show where their opponents strongest defences are. The loss of life is unimportant, all the more so because a lot of the troops aren't ethnic Russians anyway, so are expendable in the eyes of Russian commanders.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 17:09
  #13036 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chugalug2
...that's what comes of /electing/ people like Putin....
Wow, that's quite an assumption!
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 17:16
  #13037 (permalink)  
 
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That neither justifies it nor makes it right though.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 18:27
  #13038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
That neither justifies it nor makes it right though.
It certainly does not, but we are left with the problem of how to deal with a neighbouring people who are so willing to abandon civilised behaviour and descend into barbarism. The last time it had to be done cost millions of lives and could easily do so again. Ukraine must undoubtedly be given every assistance to eject Russian forces from their country, at a cost of great suffering, but then what? It seems to me that sanctions would have to stay in place until there was some confidence that Russia could be trusted again. We can hope for a coup or revolution that replaces Putin’s regime with something better, but governments born in such circumstances are rarely an improvement on what went before. We can ponder the possible breakup of the RF into a group of independent and less belligerent countries, but there is no evidence that this is likely. Perhaps the best we can hope for is a new Cold War, with a militarily emasculated (but still nuclear armed) Russia left feeling isolated, resentful, cheated and thirsting for revenge. Not a happy thought on this New Year.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 18:46
  #13039 (permalink)  
 
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It seems to me that sanctions would have to stay in place until there was some confidence that Russia could be trusted again
And there, sadly, is the sticking point at where we in the despised “Wesr” We have a problem. History has shown how trustworthy the Russian/USSR/RF state has been since 1917. There is NO trust. Thus, the “West” is:
a. In for a decades long war of sanctions, whatever the cost to our economies, or …
b. Prepared to actually go to war with the Bear … and that has gone badly for everyone who tried it.

PS: Happy 2023 to all those embroiled in this tragedy, except of course Vlad the aggressor and his subservient lackeys.

Last edited by MPN11; 1st Jan 2023 at 18:56.
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Old 1st Jan 2023, 20:52
  #13040 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently Russian officers refusing to go to the meat grinder without sufficient men and fully equipped have disappeared.

A long thread so here's a readerapp version.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...391377408.html
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