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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 2nd Jan 2022, 10:30
  #501 (permalink)  
 
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Once it was Napoleon, then Hitler, and now NATO. The end will be the same. Do you no longer like a quiet and peaceful life and pirate blood is bubbling?
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 14:44
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It has to be said as it is, loud and clear, just like president Niinistö did. That is the only way Putin will understand it and respect it. Europe must be strong on this or otherwise he'll push even further thinking that no one will confront him no matter what he does. Just like Hitler in the 30's.
Putin is in a rush to leave his name in history as he's turning 70 and glorifying the good old USSR days but no one under the age of 30 in Russia has lived the soviet era. The younger generation has no first hand experience of it and no nostalgy over the matter. For the young ones Ukraine has always been a foreign country. Within 10 years they will be in charge so Putin has to act now or give up.

NATO is no threat to Russia. NATO is a threat to Russias threats. Putin uses the former for internal politics though understands the latter. Otherwise the Ukraine situation might well be on the Baltic countries. But the threat of NATO is a proper escape goat for him to boost his agenda, the irony being that now he is throwing out threats to NATO countries and others by boosting the agenda internally. Hopefully that circle of fire doesn't feed itself to apocalyptic proportions.
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 14:48
  #503 (permalink)  
 
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I hope the US turn their attention back to Europe now.
That most stupid "pivot to Asia" declaration massively backfired and invited things nobody wanted.
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 14:51
  #504 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
I'd be surprised if the Finns did join NATO TBH - they haven't a lot to gain over their current status as a tough mouthful to chew. I suspect they're "helping out" by stating their independence without any big swell of public opinion to actually do it
Agreed, it seems more advantageous to keep Finland see-sawing over any attempt to join NATO, in the medium term.
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 14:54
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Both this and the Asia pivot were inevitable imo, and this creates an increasingly dangerous position globally as more countries suffer from covid measure induced economic fall out. Parallels with around 100 years ago suggest I could see a major world war before I'm 50 at this rate.
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Old 2nd Jan 2022, 21:39
  #506 (permalink)  
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https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...raine-invasion

Putin’s Ukrainian War Is About Making Vladimir Great Again

War is coming — a not-so-great northern war.

Don’t be fooled by last Thursday’s conversation between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his American counterpart Joe Biden, with its promise of further negotiations in January. When one party is bent on war, this kind of diplomatic activity often continues until just hours before hostilities begin. We should not be deluded: Putin is bent on war against Ukraine.…..
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Old 3rd Jan 2022, 05:59
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Russian political scientist is now responding that the Finnish presidents statement brings back the situation of 1939 added with F35 being capable of delivering nuclear weapons to Russia. I say, this is probably the most flagrant statement of twisting the history and facts I've seen in a while. The USSR attacked Finland in 1939, not the other way around as this guy hints, and Finland does NOT have nuclear weapons.
Worrysome is that any newspaper not reflecting Putins thoughts are closed as "foreign agents" and journalists chance of falling from a closed window accidentally are high. It means that this is probably the rhetorics Kremlin has told this scientist to express.

“Russia should respond to the potential entry of Finland into NATO by strengthening the Baltic Fleet,” political scientist Nikolai Mezhevich told the VZGLYAD newspaper.
“The tone of Finnish statements has become inadequate over the past year, as has the decision to purchase fighter-bombers capable of delivering nuclear strikes across the entire northwest of Russia,” Nikolai Mezhevich, President of the Russian Association for Baltic Studies, recalled.
According to him, the statements of the Finnish leadership about NATO membership may be an attempt to stretch the military-political efforts of Russia from the south of the country to the north. “This could mean a threat to St. Petersburg. Such rhetoric brings Moscow back to the extremely difficult situation of 1939, but in a new geopolitical performance, ”the analyst said.


https://vz.ru/news/2022/1/2/1137159....arch%3Ftext%3D


And at the same time Pravda has a headline: "Putin tells Biden Russia ready to fully terminate relationship with USA"
Читайте больше на https://english.pravda.ru/news/world...5-putin_biden/

In Kommersant Sergei Laurov states that the West is causing it all
"The West probably wants to kindle a "little war" in Ukraine in order to then place full responsibility on Russia and introduce new sanctions against it. This assumption was made on Monday by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. "
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5153396

To make it short: "We are not doing anything wrong but the evil western countries are threatening us and try to lure us to attack Ukraine to force sanctions on us"
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Old 3rd Jan 2022, 08:23
  #508 (permalink)  
 
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And who will suffer in the end? The poor bloody Russian people, exploited by the Tsars, exploited by the Soviets, now exploited by Putin and his cronies.
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Old 3rd Jan 2022, 17:10
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
And who will suffer in the end? The poor bloody Russian people, exploited by the Tsars, exploited by the Soviets, now exploited by Putin and his cronies.
Only Xi chortles quietly, watching the foreign devils destroy one another...
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 07:52
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Only Xi chortles quietly, watching the foreign devils destroy one another...
probably not chortling too much as his economy is faltering (with Evergrande about to go down the tubes) and 13 million people in Xi'an city under Covid lockdown.

No-one is trying to destroy Russia, just expecting it to keep its hands to itself.
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 10:12
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
probably not chortling too much as his economy is faltering (with Evergrande about to go down the tubes) and 13 million people in Xi'an city under Covid lockdown.

No-one is trying to destroy Russia, just expecting it to keep its hands to itself.
Indonesia has banned all exports of coal for the month of January. The biggest importer of indonesian coal recently has been china trying to make up for the shortage after they banned australian coal
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 11:44
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
No-one is trying to destroy Russia
Hmm, we may think this but who knows what shenanigans are going on behind the scenes. Recent events in Belarus clearly put the frighteners on poor old Vlad.

I for one wouldn't exactly object to Russia being brought into the fold of the West, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 12:03
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Moscow is demanding that the alliance remove offensive weaponry from countries neighbouring Russia. The US and Nato allies say the Russian demands are non-starters.
Fair enough as long as Russia follows suit, but that would mean they’d have to disarm themselves.
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 12:25
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Moscow is demanding that the alliance remove offensive weaponry from countries neighbouring Russia. The US and Nato allies say the Russian demands are non-starters.
I'd reply: "No problemo, we'll just leave all the defensive weaponry in place in these countries then"
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 12:42
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Originally Posted by dead_pan
I'd reply: "No problemo, we'll just leave all the defensive weaponry in place in these countries then"
or double the defensive stuff...
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 12:46
  #516 (permalink)  
 
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F15 Strike Eagle renamed F15 Defence Eagle
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 14:47
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Hmm, we may think this but who knows what shenanigans are going on behind the scenes.
Much like the 30s

https://dailyhistory.org/Why_did_the..._Union_in_1933
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 15:10
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I suspect a lot can be explained by the Russian mindset which is profoundly coloured by its past experiences, not least in WW2 when the Nazis reached the gates of Moscow. I understand those memories run very deep indeed. I'm not an apologist for Vlad but taking time to understand what drives Russian fears would probably pay considerable dividends, as would some sensitivity to the territorial insecurities that are driven by those past experiences. So - would holding back on Ukrainian membership of NATO, for example, be craven appeasement or sensible realpolitik? I suspect a gesture or two tailored to Russia's historic fears (which could still allow for helping Ukraine to beef up defensively) could pay dividends in terms of de-risking things and lowering tensions. If that's what we want.
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 16:02
  #519 (permalink)  
 
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I suspect a lot can be explained by the Russian mindset which is profoundly coloured by its past experiences, not least in WW2 when the Nazis reached the gates of Moscow. I understand those memories run very deep indeed. I'm not an apologist for Vlad but taking time to understand what drives Russian fears would probably pay considerable dividends, as would some sensitivity to the territorial insecurities that are driven by those past experiences. So - would holding back on Ukrainian membership of NATO, for example, be craven appeasement or sensible realpolitik? I suspect a gesture or two tailored to Russia's historic fears (which could still allow for helping Ukraine to beef up defensively) could pay dividends in terms of de-risking things and lowering tensions. If that's what we want.
When it comes to Russia's neighbours wanting to join NATO, I suspect a lot can be explained by a mindset which is profoundly coloured by past experiences, not least during the 20th century when the Communists reached and occupied the gates of all of their capital cities.

There, fixed it for you.
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Old 4th Jan 2022, 20:50
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Originally Posted by melmothtw
When it comes to Russia's neighbours wanting to join NATO, I suspect a lot can be explained by a mindset which is profoundly coloured by past experiences, not least during the 20th century when the Communists reached and occupied the gates of all of their capital cities.

There, fixed it for you.
That's a fair point. And maybe the right approach is indeed unblinking robustness, given the risk that Vlad would see anything less as weakness. But even then it's still worth recognising the various factors that drive the other side, especially when the stakes are so high. Whether that understanding means that leaving the door ajar to a degree of messy face-saving compromise could have a part to play here I'm happy to let better qualified people than me decide.
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