Ukraine Crisis 2014

[rh200]

They do however have the main Russian gas pipeline

Pipe lines are easily replacable. I'm thinking something that will take a while to repair.

Pity some of the yuppie European countries were on their border.

1) Make a premptive annoucment to the population that in the case of Russian invasion the populations should leave the citys and head for the European union and claim assylum. This would do two things, one clog up the roads to make it harder for Russian armor to move. And next make the EU p!ss their pants and maybe try to prevent it getting that far in the first place.

2) In case that fails, don't bother using your airforce to attack the invasion force, use it to attack targets in Russia. Nuclear power stations, the Kremlin if possible, and Natural gas plants. Along with anything else that can be used for major logistics.

Now thats all bull from someone who doesn't have a clue, but hay its a nice thought.

[Heathrow Harry]

pipelines are easily REPAIRABLE but building a new one takes years

playing silly buggers with Russian gas is just giving Mr Putin a ready made excuse - he'd be intervening to save western pensioners and the poor from the cold

The importation thing now is to stabilise Ukraine and stop the Russians extending the "blood is thicker than treaties" approach elsewhere

Ask the Saudis to go full throttle on oil production and get the Yanks to export shale gas and oil - when the oil price hits $70 the Russians are buggered

[LS-4]

NATO, after a huge degree of internal discussion and political wrangling, offered Russian particpation in the NATO BMD system, which is optomised to protect Europe from weapons launched from the Middle East. Clearly, being able to use sensors placed in Southern Russia would increase SA and warning times, and would be similarly beneficial for Russia. This offer was made at the Detroit Summit three years ago in an effort to demonstrate this wasn't an anti-Russian system, but the invitation to participate was stiffly ignored by Russia. Similarly NATO declared - and adopted the equivalent of an 'Open Skies' regime to demonstrate to Russia that there were/are now no NATO plans about defence against a Russian attack.

Sources?

None of this justifies the annexation of Crimea in the way that was executed.

Agreed, but I think it's wise to try and see the different sides of things.

[rh200]

playing silly buggers with Russian gas is just giving Mr Putin a ready made excuse - he'd be intervening to save western pensioners and the poor from the cold

Not saying premptively, Once the troops start rolling across the border in mass. Don't engage in mass as you know your not going to acheive anything. But throw as much as you can at high value targets back in the homeland.

The idea is he may have Ukraine, but it will cost him billions and the infrastructure to compensate for that will be diminished.

pipelines are easily REPAIRABLE but building a new one takes years

Agreed, but I was on the premise you can't stuff a whole pipeline (I could be wrong of course). Hence the processing plants.

[ORAC]

BBC: .........Russia's Vladimir Putin has telephoned President Barack Obama to discuss the US proposal for a diplomatic solution to the crisis in Ukraine........

The Kremlin said in a statement that the Russian president drew Mr Obama's attention to "the continued rampage of extremists" in Kiev and various regions of Ukraine. It said these individuals were "committing acts of intimidation towards peaceful residents, government authorities and law enforcement agencies... with impunity"........

He also expressed concern at an "effective blockade" of Moldova's separatist region of Trans-Dniester, where Russia has troops.

Pro-Russian politicians there have sent a request asking to join the Russian Federation........

[rh200]

Yep, you yanks are on a real winner with Obama.

http://www.news.com.au/world/breakin...-1226868428886

Ukraine, a country that wants to join the EU, NATO, who's armed forces have been exemplary in the current situation, what do they get from Obama, the offer of uniforms and meals.

Islamic rebels (the moderate ones) yep we might get some of the MANPADS, which hey, will end up in extremist hands.

Would think some of them MANPADS would go real well against a Russian invasion force.

He's going to real popular with the Israelis if some go missing and there's an incident. Might find him self on Mossad's list of people aiding terrorism.

[rgbrock1]

A joint NATO-Ukraine Commission statement has condemned the Russian takeover of Crimea and has urged closer cooperation between NATO and Ukraine.

Obviously the battle lines are being drawn.

[NutLoose]

You get the feeling all this bluster by Russia with troops along the Eastern border is simply to draw the Worlds gaze from the Crimea.

[Vendee]

Was awakened this morning at 05.40 courtesy of nearby RAF Lakenheath. The sound of F15's taking off non stop for 10 minutes was deafening. I later read that 10 F15's were heading to the Baltic area. I just wish they would do it at a more reasonable hour

[NutLoose]

The last post on here is a bit frightening (post 12)

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/535...ropol-acc.html

[Heathrow Harry]

"Ukraine, a country that wants to join the EU, NATO, who's armed forces have been exemplary in the current situation, what do they get from Obama, the offer of uniforms and meals."

rh200 - Ukraine is right on Russia's door step and the Russians beleive they had assurances when Germany was re-unified that NATO would not move into the FSU states right up to their borders. They think they've been played for a patsy by the west for 20 years and it's now time to to restore the balance a bit

I presume Australia is going to volunteer it's armed forces to fight in Ukraine?

[Aviaservice]

Ukraine is right on Russia's door step and the Russians beleive they had assurances when Germany was re-unified that NATO would not move into the FSU states right up to their borders. They think they've been played for a patsy by the west for 20 years and it's now time to to restore the balance a bit

You are absolutely right! Tnx!

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry

I presume Australia is going to volunteer it's armed forces to fight in Ukraine?

Whatever for? Aussies are not in NATO.

Have Ukraine mobilized yet? I hear some reports that there was a reserve call up, but I don't understand their posture.

[peter we]

Ukraine is right on Russia's door step and the Russians beleive they had assurances when Germany was re-unified that NATO would not move into the FSU states right up to their borders.

Ukraine has never asked to join Nato and its always been out of the question, even now the suggestion is rejected by Nato.

[ORAC]

Ukraine has never asked to join Nato and its always been out of the question

Really?

They started discussing membership in 2002 and worked towards it until 2010, when the election of Yanukovych led to the bid being formally abandoned. Since his removal and the annexation of Crimea the request has been renewed.

So, apart from being totally wrong, what other facts do you have?

Ukraine and NATO - an On-Off Relationship

Ukraine Dragged Into NATO - Voice of Russia and Stop NATO 20 July 2012

[Heathrow Harry]

"Whatever for? Aussies are not in NATO. "

then perhaps rh200 (Perth Aus.) shouldn't suggest we get into wars he/she has no intention of helping in...........................

[ORAC]

Any German Ppruners' care to comment?

Streetwise Professor: Not Willing to Sacrifice the Bonus of a Single Frankfurt Banker

[rh200]

I presume Australia is going to volunteer it's armed forces to fight in Ukraine?

I wouldn't have an issue with that, as long as it looks like the Ukranians are trying to do the right thing and keep there extremists under control. Some extra help on their borders and police observers might give the locals the chance to concentrate on some internal matters and get a handle on their extremists.

Whatever for? Aussies are not in NATO.

Whats NATO got to do with it in relation to Australia. We have been involved with several conflicts that had nothing to do with NATO for various reasons.

The current one might actually have some moral imperative. No oil, aggressor who can fight back. The fact that your actually prepared to put it all on the line and for a very high price might go some place to counter the view your only interested in taking on countrys that don't have any real chance of fighting back.

rh200 - Ukraine is right on Russia's door step and the Russians beleive they had assurances when Germany was re-unified that NATO would not move into the FSU states right up to their borders. They think they've been played for a patsy by the west for 20 years and it's now time to to restore the balance a bit

And this is part of the problem, out dated thinking that there are particular countys that belong to them and us. NATO is no threat to Russia, its the economic benefits of progressing countrys that are a threat, in that they don't have to bend over and take it up the @rse from the Russians.

The Russians are still in the past dreaming of empires, all we are doing is encouraging it.

then perhaps rh200 (Perth Aus.) shouldn't suggest we get into wars he/she has no intention of helping in...........................

Believe I made it clear about us participating. One wonders why the Kuwatis where so special.

[rh200]

Russia leans on companies to rescue Crimea | News.com.au

Yep, there's a cost to everything.

[rh200]

Crowdfunding helps Ukrainians build ?people?s drone? to aid poorly resourced army | Fox News

Who needs enemy's when you have friends like the US. I mean thats just plain embarrising. If your a rebel in Syria you get a request to congress for 500 million in aid from the Obama.

If your a Ukrainian, what, some uniforms and MRE's. If your in Iraqi as a Shia, nope, we'll take a look, Russia, no problem here's some aircraft.